pcola
Junior Member
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Post by pcola on Dec 11, 2014 14:18:28 GMT -5
The biggest issue is with Idzik and Ryan having the exact opposite philosophies. Ryan refuses to play the youngsters with the exception of Geno. Ryan ' s goal was 2014 and nothing else, whereas Idzik is trying to build for the future. Why the heck are we playing guys like Pace, Babin, Landry, and Colon?? While our draft was a disaster, it was the how the CB position was handled that is getting Ryan fired. Rex is returning the favor by not playing any of Idzik ' s draft picks. Hopefully Woody learns a valuable lesson and hires a GM and HC wear their long term goals are aligned. Not entirely true, Pryor, Amaro, Milliner, Winters, S Hill, Sheldon, Bohanon, D Davis, all saw significant playing time in their 1st years. I was mainly referring to the latter part of this season, particularly the last month. VS. MN our rookies played like 8 snaps. I see no reason why Reilly, Enemkpali, and Dozier aren't seeing the field at all. Do any of us honestly think Colon, Babin, and Pace are going to have roles on this team next year? |
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pcola
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by pcola on Dec 11, 2014 14:25:22 GMT -5
None of these guys would steal headlines but all would be better than Cowher. Sabin and Harbaugh are not coming here. I would go after Lazor, Dan Mullen of Miss St. And Shanahan Jr. Money and power talk. Wasn't Lazor gettin shit this year for offensive problems in Miami? Im against Woody giving anyone their 1st HC gig outside of Pep Hamilton, he needs to get his hand in his pocket and give a football man control to build aswell as coach. No one really knows how good Pep Hamilton really is. He had Luck in college and now has him in the pros. Same could be said about Gase in Denver. Any of us could be an OC with Peyton at QB. Look at what Lazor did with Tannehill this year. He was Nick Foles QB coach last year. Before that, he was at OR with Mariota. From what I have heard about him is that he is incredibly intelligent and detailed. He is one of the up and comers that is an offensive genius. We can go the retread route but it will all come down to what our offense looks like. With a distinct possibility of having a top 3 pick and it being a QB, we better have a staff that knows how to develop him. |
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Dec 11, 2014 14:35:14 GMT -5
Woody couldn't find replacements when the team was in a better place than this, I don't think they are going anywhere get a new Qb, OC? and give it a try? Not couldnt. Wouldnt. Bringing in a new GM while retaining the HC, in hindsight... and foresight, and every sight... was assinine. Hopefully he learned from that. I think if he cleans house this year, the chance to come to NY with a clean slate, 50 MM in cap space and a top 5 draft pick could attract a quality GM and HC. Build from scratch, dont force a shuffling of the deck chairs on the titanic. Guys would look at it as the ultimate challenge and reclamation project. |
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Post by Harrier on Dec 11, 2014 14:36:27 GMT -5
Not entirely true, Pryor, Amaro, Milliner, Winters, S Hill, Sheldon, Bohanon, D Davis, all saw significant playing time in their 1st years. I was mainly referring to the latter part of this season, particularly the last month. VS. MN our rookies played like 8 snaps. I see no reason why Reilly, Enemkpali, and Dozier aren't seeing the field at all. Do any of us honestly think Colon, Babin, and Pace are going to have roles on this team next year? Agree with that, once the season was mathematically over there was no reason not to audition some low round guys, but with a sham marrage, Idzik and Rex had different agendas. |
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Post by TJ&TW on Dec 11, 2014 14:46:15 GMT -5
Rex is obviously gone. Idzik is the question mark. Too close to call, but I believe he will end up staying in the end.
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pcola
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by pcola on Dec 11, 2014 15:22:24 GMT -5
Woody alluded to a new way of coaching. I think Woody and what ever advisors he has, will interview Idzik and see what kind of philosophy he is looking to implement. What type of HC, what kind of systems, both offense and defense. They will probably give him an opportunity to articulate what the hell happened during the 2014 draft and what kind of processes he would implement to prevent a re-occurrence.
That would be the fair thing to do since he has been on the job less than two years.
He would basically be re-interviewing for his job. At which point, if he didn't blow them away, Woody would, first, fire him. And then publicly announce that it was his fault that Idzik had to be let go because he forced a roster (no cap space), a HC, and staff on him.
That way he can declare that the new GM will have Carte Blanche to hire his coach, scouts, staff, and build the roster whatever way he can. That, $50M in cap space, and a chance at Mariota (Please God) and this will be the most sought after opening this year.
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 11, 2014 15:35:52 GMT -5
The frustrating thing for me is that I truly believe in idziks mantra of patience, signing the right players in free agency and building the team mostly through the draft. The real problem is that I'm not sure he's the guy I want picking the talent. Right approach, wrong guy. Exactly where I am with Idzik. Was a fan of his at first for that very reason, but you have to actually hit on your draft picks for the strategy to work. Free agency too. He was too deliberate and didn't adapt to the speed of FA this season in which there was a historically high number of strong starting CB's and he gambled on a oft-injured B-type fill in. Had he had the gumption to secure a starting-caliber in this deep pool, the 3rd rounder could've been used on WR John Brown who they were real high on. Missed opportunities to fill the numerous holes became compounded as the draft was held and you can't realistically find opening day starters on the 3rd day. Add to that the oft-injured draft picks (2 years now). Drafting a WR in Evans who could NOT make most of TC due to a class was a tactical blunder. Reaching on a PR/WR when the need remained and guys still on the board such as Martavous Bryant (who the Jets coveted) was another bad decision. Yeah, losing your top 3 CB's might be an NFL-first and at the very least, real bad luck but he made this luck by drafting guys who had a history of injury.
I'll grant his friend in the article that John is a real good football guy and may have a great vision to get there but of all places, NY is not one to move at such glacial speed with staring contests with each FA and maximum value on players dropping down the board due to injury. But I don't agree with his methods and certainly not the results.
Another thing I didn't like was the writer's insistence that big moves are certain to happen based on Woody's comments. What?! I came away believing that Woody could actually retain everyone.
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fnordcirclejerk
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Post by fnordcirclejerk on Dec 11, 2014 15:57:49 GMT -5
The frustrating thing for me is that I truly believe in idziks mantra of patience, signing the right players in free agency and building the team mostly through the draft. The real problem is that I'm not sure he's the guy I want picking the talent. Right approach, wrong guy. As an outsider that's how I feel too. The thing that annoys me the most is the shit fans give for the salary cap space. Look, I mean, I think if he did a realistic assessment of your team at the start of the season he may very well have seen a team that had issues. Issues that weren't going to be fixed by throwing money at the people available this year. Better to sit on that money, make reasonable offers and find value trades than paying $20m for bandaids that might hamper the cap going forward. I just think that's a really sane approach but it isn't going to please fans who thought 8-8 last year was going to translate into double digit wins this year. |
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Dec 11, 2014 16:04:29 GMT -5
The frustrating thing for me is that I truly believe in idziks mantra of patience, signing the right players in free agency and building the team mostly through the draft. The real problem is that I'm not sure he's the guy I want picking the talent. Right approach, wrong guy. You're not building anything with those guys he has picked |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 16:23:50 GMT -5
Woody couldn't find replacements when the team was in a better place than this, I don't think they are going anywhere get a new Qb, OC? and give it a try? Pretty sure Woody wants a GM that can build a team Rex can coach, and hire the guys to solve the offensive riddle. I think everybody's on board with that; I'm a Ghey Cunt! I think we all have been on board, yes, with our hands tied we are just looking for a driver christ at least Mr. Hess had the gas. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 16:41:00 GMT -5
Woody couldn't find replacements when the team was in a better place than this, I don't think they are going anywhere get a new Qb, OC? and give it a try? Not couldnt. Wouldnt. Bringing in a new GM while retaining the HC, in hindsight... and foresight, and every sight... was assinine. Hopefully he learned from that. I think if he cleans house this year, the chance to come to NY with a clean slate, 50 MM in cap space and a top 5 draft pick could attract a quality GM and HC. Build from scratch, dont force a shuffling of the deck chairs on the titanic. Guys would look at it as the ultimate challenge and reclamation project. Everyone wants their own guy, the Jets need guys, mostly on offense is one way to look at the situation. Another way I look at this is it's one guys fault and that's the owner is everyone just playing him, or is this a hobby for him? I'd like Harbaugh if he came with a Qb, but he isn't coming here he can have a challenge with Oakland and stay right there in Cali. |
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 11, 2014 17:10:22 GMT -5
The frustrating thing for me is that I truly believe in idziks mantra of patience, signing the right players in free agency and building the team mostly through the draft. The real problem is that I'm not sure he's the guy I want picking the talent. Right approach, wrong guy. As an outsider that's how I feel too. The thing that annoys me the most is the shit fans give for the salary cap space. Look, I mean, I think if he did a realistic assessment of your team at the start of the season he may very well have seen a team that had issues. Issues that weren't going to be fixed by throwing money at the people available this year. Better to sit on that money, make reasonable offers and find value trades than paying $20m for bandaids that might hamper the cap going forward. I just think that's a really sane approach but it isn't going to please fans who thought 8-8 last year was going to translate into double digit wins this year. Better to sit on that money and play for the top pick, right? Look, it wasn't a matter of simply throwing money at players for the sake of doing so. John needed to fill holes and he didn't. Multiple holes. Simply waiting for next year doesn't cut it. Not when you have such a wide talent void and so much money that he did a great job in freeing. BTW, did you happen to notice some of the teams that were aggressive in FA? Patriots, Lions, Broncos, Eagles - all in first. Coincidence? They filled needs THIS year.
The point lost on many of you are these claims of his being "patient" when it doesn't accurately depict what happened. This word was carefully placed by some media sources (and quite possibly, Jets execs) as a so-called "strategy" when it was clear he couldn't sign anyone other than the husband of a country singer who desperately wanted to be in NY and a RT he had inside contact with. Again, it wasn't that John waited for prospects, it was that he swung and missed on them. Vontae Davis, Munnerlyn (waited too long), Donald Brown, Pettigrew, DRC, Jared Allen, Brandon Lefell (another he waited too long on), McCown - all of these players we later learn the Jets were coveting and were either stared down or not contacted until it was too late. We know that he refused to up his offer on Pettigrew when it was virtually the same as what the Lions offered (and subsequently forced his hand in the draft in the 2nd round), and either waited or likely low-balled the others to gain some sort of "value" that you speak of. I'm not hammering him on Revis as I believe this was owner-driven which is another topic.
Sorry, I just don't agree with the cases made by the Idzik apologists. John simply did not adapt to the speed of FA and was quite possibly disillusioned by the value of the Decker signing although that went deep into the night of his 2nd day visiting, not unlike CJ's deal. At this current rate of strategic efficiency, he will never attain a stocked roster. He's too obsessed with value. And this misses the mark entirely as FA's by definition are above market value when the reach FA. This is the one moment they have 32 teams vying for their employment and have their highest monetary leverage. Good luck "waiting" them out.
That anonymous GM hit the nail on the head. John doesn't have the balls for this job.
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Post by persiussa on Dec 11, 2014 18:44:37 GMT -5
As an outsider that's how I feel too. The thing that annoys me the most is the shit fans give for the salary cap space. Look, I mean, I think if he did a realistic assessment of your team at the start of the season he may very well have seen a team that had issues. Issues that weren't going to be fixed by throwing money at the people available this year. Better to sit on that money, make reasonable offers and find value trades than paying $20m for bandaids that might hamper the cap going forward. I just think that's a really sane approach but it isn't going to please fans who thought 8-8 last year was going to translate into double digit wins this year. Better to sit on that money and play for the top pick, right? Look, it wasn't a matter of simply throwing money at players for the sake of doing so. John needed to fill holes and he didn't. Multiple holes. Simply waiting for next year doesn't cut it. Not when you have such a wide talent void and so much money that he did a great job in freeing. BTW, did you happen to notice some of the teams that were aggressive in FA? Patriots, Lions, Broncos, Eagles - all in first. Coincidence? They filled needs THIS year.
The point lost on many of you are these claims of his being "patient" when it doesn't accurately depict what happened. This word was carefully placed by some media sources (and quite possibly, Jets execs) as a so-called "strategy" when it was clear he couldn't sign anyone other than the husband of a country singer who desperately wanted to be in NY and a RT he had inside contact with. Again, it wasn't that John waited for prospects, it was that he swung and missed on them. Vontae Davis, Munnerlyn (waited too long), Donald Brown, Pettigrew, DRC, Jared Allen, Brandon Lefell (another he waited too long on), McCown - all of these players we later learn the Jets were coveting and were either stared down or not contacted until it was too late. We know that he refused to up his offer on Pettigrew when it was virtually the same as what the Lions offered (and subsequently forced his hand in the draft in the 2nd round), and either waited or likely low-balled the others to gain some sort of "value" that you speak of. I'm not hammering him on Revis as I believe this was owner-driven which is another topic.
Sorry, I just don't agree with the cases made by the Idzik apologists. John simply did not adapt to the speed of FA and was quite possibly disillusioned by the value of the Decker signing although that went deep into the night of his 2nd day visiting, not unlike CJ's deal. At this current rate of strategic efficiency, he will never attain a stocked roster. He's too obsessed with value. And this misses the mark entirely as FA's by definition are above market value when the reach FA. This is the one moment they have 32 teams vying for their employment and have their highest monetary leverage. Good luck "waiting" them out.
That anonymous GM hit the nail on the head. John doesn't have the balls for this job.
I think it's worth noting that the other ny team spent like crazy and solved nothing. I think if we weren't gonna spend big in free agency we should have been resigning our own players for the future. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 18:47:11 GMT -5
Better to sit on that money and play for the top pick, right? Look, it wasn't a matter of simply throwing money at players for the sake of doing so. John needed to fill holes and he didn't. Multiple holes. Simply waiting for next year doesn't cut it. Not when you have such a wide talent void and so much money that he did a great job in freeing. BTW, did you happen to notice some of the teams that were aggressive in FA? Patriots, Lions, Broncos, Eagles - all in first. Coincidence? They filled needs THIS year.
The point lost on many of you are these claims of his being "patient" when it doesn't accurately depict what happened. This word was carefully placed by some media sources (and quite possibly, Jets execs) as a so-called "strategy" when it was clear he couldn't sign anyone other than the husband of a country singer who desperately wanted to be in NY and a RT he had inside contact with. Again, it wasn't that John waited for prospects, it was that he swung and missed on them. Vontae Davis, Munnerlyn (waited too long), Donald Brown, Pettigrew, DRC, Jared Allen, Brandon Lefell (another he waited too long on), McCown - all of these players we later learn the Jets were coveting and were either stared down or not contacted until it was too late. We know that he refused to up his offer on Pettigrew when it was virtually the same as what the Lions offered (and subsequently forced his hand in the draft in the 2nd round), and either waited or likely low-balled the others to gain some sort of "value" that you speak of. I'm not hammering him on Revis as I believe this was owner-driven which is another topic.
Sorry, I just don't agree with the cases made by the Idzik apologists. John simply did not adapt to the speed of FA and was quite possibly disillusioned by the value of the Decker signing although that went deep into the night of his 2nd day visiting, not unlike CJ's deal. At this current rate of strategic efficiency, he will never attain a stocked roster. He's too obsessed with value. And this misses the mark entirely as FA's by definition are above market value when the reach FA. This is the one moment they have 32 teams vying for their employment and have their highest monetary leverage. Good luck "waiting" them out.
That anonymous GM hit the nail on the head. John doesn't have the balls for this job.
I think it's worth noting that the other ny team spent like crazy and solved nothing. I think if we weren't gonna spend big in free agency we should have been resigning our own players for the future. They usually don't like their in laws the Steelers. 10 trophies. |
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Post by chrisjets23 on Dec 11, 2014 19:56:53 GMT -5
Hello everyone. First post here and I've noticed a lot of others from the JI message board which is nice to see.
As far as this article and situation with Woody, it's scary to think there is a real possibility that he doesn't know what to do at the end of the year. IMO, I believe that HE thinks in his own perfect world, he'd prefer to keep Rex again and try another GM. I think when the dust settles, he'll clean house simply because of the fan reaction for this past month or so, but it's really out of his comfort zone to do something like this. He prefers the one scapegoat at a time method when things don't go well.
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