|
Post by smaxor5 on Dec 15, 2014 16:02:35 GMT -5
I know, facts can be boring for some. Flip your logic around. If whomever the Jets GM is offered a fair package around Wilkerson for that pick would the Raiders GM go "LULZ, we don't trade for players" and hang up the phone? Probably not. Believe it or not there are reasons to be creative in this league (Hence the whole passing phenomenon, 2 tight end sets, Chip Kelly offenses, the rams trade for RG3)...but yeah continue playing "expert"
|
|
|
Post by sec.101row23 on Dec 15, 2014 16:06:06 GMT -5
I know, facts can be boring for some. Flip your logic around. If whomever the Jets GM is offered a fair package around Wilkerson for that pick would the Raiders GM go "LULZ, we don't trade for players" and hang up the phone? Probably not. Believe it or not there are reasons to be creative in this league (Hence the whole passing phenomenon, 2 tight end sets, Chip Kelly offenses, the rams trade for RG3)...but yeah continue playing "expert" Ok, so what value are you putting on Wilkerson in a trade up scenario?
|
|
|
Post by smaxor5 on Dec 15, 2014 16:57:13 GMT -5
Flip your logic around. If whomever the Jets GM is offered a fair package around Wilkerson for that pick would the Raiders GM go "LULZ, we don't trade for players" and hang up the phone? Probably not. Believe it or not there are reasons to be creative in this league (Hence the whole passing phenomenon, 2 tight end sets, Chip Kelly offenses, the rams trade for RG3)...but yeah continue playing "expert" Ok, so what value are you putting on Wilkerson in a trade up scenario? Why does that even matter? Oh, because it dodges the underlying question I'm asking. Got it. Answer the question of whether or not the guy hangs up immediately and I might humor you the same.
|
|
|
Post by Bavarian on Dec 15, 2014 17:10:24 GMT -5
Ok, so what value are you putting on Wilkerson in a trade up scenario? Why does that even matter? Oh, because it dodges the underlying question I'm asking. Got it. Answer the question of whether or not the guy hangs up immediately and I might humor you the same. He wants you to propose a trade that correctly fits the value chart and moreover, his sensibilities. If you give examples as I did, he scoffs at them as being anomalies. This is the type of guy who is never wrong. I tried doing the same thing you are - using him as a bargaining chip but that kind of talk is lost on him as it doesn't fit his myopic view. He expects everyone to be a GM, I guess and have exact values calculated out. Tedious and boring.
I think I remember you from PSD. Did you use to post there?
|
|
|
Post by sec.101row23 on Dec 15, 2014 17:21:47 GMT -5
Ok, so what value are you putting on Wilkerson in a trade up scenario? Why does that even matter? Oh, because it dodges the underlying question I'm asking. Got it. Answer the question of whether or not the guy hangs up immediately and I might humor you the same. if you what you are proposing is so realistic, then why is it so rare to have players involved in a trade up scenario? The first thing that will be asked is what value are you placing on Wilkerson? The fact is that Wilkerson isn't nearly as valuable as you guys are making him out to be.
|
|
|
Post by sec.101row23 on Dec 15, 2014 17:41:51 GMT -5
Why does that even matter? Oh, because it dodges the underlying question I'm asking. Got it. Answer the question of whether or not the guy hangs up immediately and I might humor you the same. He wants you to propose a trade that correctly fits the value chart and moreover, his sensibilities. If you give examples as I did, he scoffs at them as being anomalies. This is the type of guy who is never wrong. I tried doing the same thing you are - using him as a bargaining chip but that kind of talk is lost on him as it doesn't fit his myopic view. He expects everyone to be a GM, I guess and have exact values calculated out. Tedious and boring.
I think I remember you from PSD. Did you use to post there?
The Cleveland trade was an anomoly. Other than that you gave no other examples. The Braylon trade has nothing to do with this situation and is pretty much irrelevant. If it was so realistic certainly there would be many more examples of teams trading players for picks on draft day.
|
|
pcola
Junior Member
Posts: 79
|
Post by pcola on Dec 16, 2014 4:36:43 GMT -5
I think we can all bet on Tampa having the #1 pick. They play GA and NO who both will have significant playoff ramifications in their games. And being in a division where all 4 teams have losing records, their strength of schedule is truly pathetic leaving no chance for TN to leap them.
So just for arguments sake, let's consider that for a moment that they would be willing to discuss a trade.
The value of #1 is much higher when you have a bona-fide QB prospect sitting there. Even more so when you consider there is no real competition with all of Winston ' s baggage and crappy play this year.
Add the fact that the the only way TB can warrant moving down to their fan base is if the trade is overwhelmingly in their favor.
My guess it would take 1st rounders in 2014, 2015, & 2016, and their choice of Wilkerson or Richardson. It may even take adding additional picks in later rounds.
So basically, we would have to give up so much that there would be literally no way Mariota could succeed here for nearly 5 years, if at all.
But at least the "true fans" have the pride of knowing we beat Pitt and TN.
Maybe we should just go 1-15 every year until the next Andrew Luck comes out.
|
|
|
Post by Hotman on Dec 16, 2014 6:53:31 GMT -5
Great idea. Lets dismantle the only solid part of the team for another unproven rookie bust and create another hole where we once had a stength. No thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Hotman on Dec 16, 2014 6:55:45 GMT -5
I think we can all bet on Tampa having the #1 pick. They play GA and NO who both will have significant playoff ramifications in their games. And being in a division where all 4 teams have losing records, their strength of schedule is truly pathetic leaving no chance for TN to leap them. So just for arguments sake, let's consider that for a moment that they would be willing to discuss a trade. The value of #1 is much higher when you have a bona-fide QB prospect sitting there. Even more so when you consider there is no real competition with all of Winston ' s baggage and crappy play this year. Add the fact that the the only way TB can warrant moving down to their fan base is if the trade is overwhelmingly in their favor. My guess it would take 1st rounders in 2014, 2015, & 2016, and their choice of Wilkerson or Richardson. It may even take adding additional picks in later rounds. So basically, we would have to give up so much that there would be literally no way Mariota could succeed here for nearly 5 years, if at all. But at least the "true fans" have the pride of knowing we beat Pitt and TN. Maybe we should just go 1-15 every year until the next Andrew Luck comes out. There will be NO deal being made between the Jets and TB. You can pretty much guarantee that.
|
|
|
Post by eaglenj on Dec 16, 2014 8:59:10 GMT -5
Everyone who is saying that cooper is going to be a certain top 5 pick, or possibly even #1 overall, really needs to take a step back and look at the type of player he is.
WRs that go in the top 5 are physically dominant players. Out of the 7 or so best WRs in todays NFL, only 1 is under 6'2 and that is antonio brown, who is much quicker then Cooper is.
Look, Cooper is a very good player. He is 6'1 205 which is good size for a WR. He has excellent character and work ethic - which backs up excellent production. All of that gives him a VERY high floor as far as not being a bust. He is a safe pick, and will likely be a productive player as minimum.
That being said, if you are picking a WR in the top 5 or as somone insanely suggested 1 overall, they need to have superstar potential and I simply dont see that with Cooper at 6'1. He cant be as physically dominating as mike evans (let alone aj green, calvin johnson or julio jones). He does not havethe insane explosiveness of sammy watkins or even OBJ.
In my opinion, Cooper is very comparable to jordan matthews, who happens to be taller then cooper. Both have excellent work ethic, great college numbers, and decent measurables. Matthews went mid-second round. Cooper is being talked about in the top 5 - there is clearly a disconnect in value there and I dont want to be the team that pays $100 for something worth $70
|
|
|
Post by KRL on Dec 16, 2014 9:02:54 GMT -5
Amari Cooper to me will be a Marvin Harrison / Reggie Wayne type of WR
|
|
|
Post by Hotman on Dec 16, 2014 9:08:23 GMT -5
Amari Cooper to me will be a Marvin Harrison / Reggie Wayne type of WR That's what they say. Lemme have dat. To hell with Mariotta/Winston. Especially Winston. Get someone who can manage not to throw picks and can read a defense while we get pieces for a FQB. and NO ROOKIES QB EVER AGAIN!!
|
|
|
Post by Paradis on Dec 16, 2014 11:37:59 GMT -5
He wants you to propose a trade that correctly fits the value chart and moreover, his sensibilities.
The Cleveland trade was an anomoly. Other than that you gave no other examples. The Braylon trade has nothing to do with this situation and is pretty much irrelevant. If it was so realistic certainly there would be many more examples of teams trading players for picks on draft day. My condolences sec101, i think you tried your best - but there's no saving this one. Disappointing to see this kind of numbskullery on jetshampur. This bavarian-flu guy seems to be on a quest to redefine self-righteousness.
|
|
|
Post by smaxor5 on Dec 16, 2014 22:30:36 GMT -5
Why does that even matter? Oh, because it dodges the underlying question I'm asking. Got it. Answer the question of whether or not the guy hangs up immediately and I might humor you the same. He wants you to propose a trade that correctly fits the value chart and moreover, his sensibilities. If you give examples as I did, he scoffs at them as being anomalies. This is the type of guy who is never wrong. I tried doing the same thing you are - using him as a bargaining chip but that kind of talk is lost on him as it doesn't fit his myopic view. He expects everyone to be a GM, I guess and have exact values calculated out. Tedious and boring.
I think I remember you from PSD. Did you use to post there?
Hah, I didn't think anyone even knew that place existed in these circles. Yeah I was the guy who posted a few threads about going to the draft...my avatar is from that actually
|
|
|
Post by smaxor5 on Dec 16, 2014 22:36:55 GMT -5
He wants you to propose a trade that correctly fits the value chart and moreover, his sensibilities. If you give examples as I did, he scoffs at them as being anomalies. This is the type of guy who is never wrong. I tried doing the same thing you are - using him as a bargaining chip but that kind of talk is lost on him as it doesn't fit his myopic view. He expects everyone to be a GM, I guess and have exact values calculated out. Tedious and boring.
I think I remember you from PSD. Did you use to post there?
The Cleveland trade was an anomoly. Other than that you gave no other examples. The Braylon trade has nothing to do with this situation and is pretty much irrelevant. If it was so realistic certainly there would be many more examples of teams trading players for picks on draft day. So are you arguing that trading a DPOY to a team that has the ability to franchise him after he puts up elite production has no value? I don't really understand how you can make the argument that no GM would want to involve him in a trade. Suppose a team like the Raiders (who have NO ONE worth franchising at the moment), trades their pick and a 3rd for the Jets pick and Wilkerson. Why is that such a ridiculous thing to happen other than "Well, it's never happened before"? Precedent is an excuse for the uncreative. Jets: Get to move up X amount of spots and an extra 3rd rounder for a team with many holes Raiders: Pick up a player that they can at least keep (via the franchise tag) for another year who could be the foundation of their defense. This could happen if the Raiders have 3 or so guys that they value equally (since they are a team with many holes) at their pick where they are comfortable trading down and, in their mind, not losing all that much. They also get a player in Wilkerson who probably would never have signed there in free agency
|
|