|
Post by Trades on Oct 10, 2016 11:41:52 GMT -5
I'm fine with giving him a shot, but if he really were all of those things listed, he wouldn't have been a 4th rounder and the coaches wouldn't still be undecided if he is able to be a capable starter. If that is the case and we can't trust anyone to learn then why waste draft picks on QBs? The Jets have drafted more QBs this century than any team and we still can't find someone worthy of starting?!?!?
|
|
|
Post by maury77 on Oct 10, 2016 12:04:46 GMT -5
I'm fine with Hack or Petty at this point. Petty looked pretty good this preseason and he has nice tools. The only thing I don't love about Petty is that he is already 25 (4 years older than Hack).
I've begun to warm up to the Hackenberg pick. I absolutely hated it when he was picked, but I watched almost all his tape that is available on draftbreakdown.com. Hack has the physical and mental tools to be elite, my concern is that after 2 years of shit coaching and a terrible OL, is he still salvageable or is he post Houston Texans David Carr.
|
|
|
Post by HawkeyeJet on Oct 10, 2016 13:01:36 GMT -5
I'm fine with giving him a shot, but if he really were all of those things listed, he wouldn't have been a 4th rounder and the coaches wouldn't still be undecided if he is able to be a capable starter. If that is the case and we can't trust anyone to learn then why waste draft picks on QBs? The Jets have drafted more QBs this century than any team and we still can't find someone worthy of starting?!?!? I'm not sure how you got that out of what I replied to you. Of course they can learn. Anyone can learn a playbook , some faster than others, but Petty sure as hell better know the plays by now. Whether or not he knows how to execute them or know how to process NFL defenses as it relates to those plays is a different story. All I meant is Bowels saying they need to learn the playbook is coaxh speak. They aren't going to throw out the real reasons neither of those guys is ready.
|
|
|
Post by JStokes on Oct 10, 2016 13:21:51 GMT -5
I liked him much more than Hack coming out in the draft. I know we don't see eye to eye much, so I'm trying to keep this question civil. But why is that? Petty doesn't have as many desirable NFL traits as Hackenburg does. I don't want this to turn into me "defending " Hackenburg, because I highly doubt he's the answer, but I think lots of people over estimate Petty'a skill set and football IQ. Can not disagree more fully. Petty has the most important trait for an NFL QB, a trait that Hack has never had and never will have. The ability to throw accurate passes. I watched them both a LOT in college and when Petty gets in a rhythm he can hit every single pass--the easy ones and the tight ones, can be very accurate. I've heard all the excuses about Hack at PSU and I am not buying any of it--he is just not a naturally accurate thrower of the football. No amount of "fixing" his "mechanics" are going to change that. I think the only NFL "traits" Hack possesses is that he's big and has a big arm. Prototypical size and arm. Cannot hit an open receiver --the easy ones especially. The fact that he ran the Pats offense (a dumbed down version of it) as a freshmen means very little to me. He got worse and worse in college and I can NOT blame that all on coaching and scheme and philosopy and whether he was forced to change what foot he dropped back on. Natual hitters can wake up and hit line drives. Natural throwers can wake up and throw accurate ropes. He cannot throw accurately. But did I mention he's big? _
|
|
|
Post by HawkeyeJet on Oct 10, 2016 13:41:30 GMT -5
I know we don't see eye to eye much, so I'm trying to keep this question civil. But why is that? Petty doesn't have as many desirable NFL traits as Hackenburg does. I don't want this to turn into me "defending " Hackenburg, because I highly doubt he's the answer, but I think lots of people over estimate Petty'a skill set and football IQ. Can not disagree more fully. Petty has the most important trait for an NFL QB, a trait that Hack has never had and never will have. The ability to throw accurate passes. I watched them both a LOT in college and when Petty gets in a rhythm he can hit every single pass--the easy ones and the tight ones, can be very accurate. I've heard all the excuses about Hack at PSU and I am not buying any of it--he is just not a naturally accurate thrower of the football. No amount of "fixing" his "mechanics" are going to change that. I think the only NFL "traits" Hack possesses is that he's big and has a big arm. Prototypical size and arm. Cannot hit an open receiver --the easy ones especially. The fact that he ran the Pats offense (a dumbed down version of it) as a freshmen means very little to me. He got worse and worse in college and I can NOT blame that all on coaching and scheme and philosopy and whether he was forced to change what foot he dropped back on. Natual hitters can wake up and hit line drives. Natural throwers can wake up and throw accurate ropes. He cannot throw accurately. But did I mention he's big? _ That's precisely my point. People greatly exaggerate how accurate Petty is. Petty threw 60ish percent in Baylor's offense. That's not especially good in that offense. He, just like Hackenberg, was extremely streaky with his accuracy at the college level. I'm not trying to say he's not more accurate than Hackenberg, he is, but he is far from the precision passer he sometimes is made out to be. To each their own. Maybe Petty is better than I give him credit for, but it just feels to me some make out Petty to be better than he is because they don't like Hackenberg.
|
|
|
Post by JStokes on Oct 10, 2016 13:44:07 GMT -5
Can not disagree more fully. Petty has the most important trait for an NFL QB, a trait that Hack has never had and never will have. The ability to throw accurate passes. I watched them both a LOT in college and when Petty gets in a rhythm he can hit every single pass--the easy ones and the tight ones, can be very accurate. I've heard all the excuses about Hack at PSU and I am not buying any of it--he is just not a naturally accurate thrower of the football. No amount of "fixing" his "mechanics" are going to change that. I think the only NFL "traits" Hack possesses is that he's big and has a big arm. Prototypical size and arm. Cannot hit an open receiver --the easy ones especially. The fact that he ran the Pats offense (a dumbed down version of it) as a freshmen means very little to me. He got worse and worse in college and I can NOT blame that all on coaching and scheme and philosopy and whether he was forced to change what foot he dropped back on. Natual hitters can wake up and hit line drives. Natural throwers can wake up and throw accurate ropes. He cannot throw accurately. But did I mention he's big? _ That's precisely my point. People greatly exaggerate how accurate Petty is. Petty threw 60ish percent in Baylor's offense. That's not especially good in that offense. He, just like Hackenberg, was extremely streaky with his accuracy at the college level. I'm not trying to say he's not more accurate than Hackenberg, he is, but he is far from the precision passer he sometimes is made out to be. I think we were watching different players. I thought Petty was very accurate at Baylor. Hack was brutal. Not even close. IMHO. _
|
|
|
Post by JStokes on Oct 10, 2016 13:47:33 GMT -5
Can not disagree more fully. Petty has the most important trait for an NFL QB, a trait that Hack has never had and never will have. The ability to throw accurate passes. I watched them both a LOT in college and when Petty gets in a rhythm he can hit every single pass--the easy ones and the tight ones, can be very accurate. I've heard all the excuses about Hack at PSU and I am not buying any of it--he is just not a naturally accurate thrower of the football. No amount of "fixing" his "mechanics" are going to change that. I think the only NFL "traits" Hack possesses is that he's big and has a big arm. Prototypical size and arm. Cannot hit an open receiver --the easy ones especially. The fact that he ran the Pats offense (a dumbed down version of it) as a freshmen means very little to me. He got worse and worse in college and I can NOT blame that all on coaching and scheme and philosopy and whether he was forced to change what foot he dropped back on. Natual hitters can wake up and hit line drives. Natural throwers can wake up and throw accurate ropes. He cannot throw accurately. But did I mention he's big? _ That's precisely my point. People greatly exaggerate how accurate Petty is. Petty threw 60ish percent in Baylor's offense. That's not especially good in that offense. He, just like Hackenberg, was extremely streaky with his accuracy at the college level. I'm not trying to say he's not more accurate than Hackenberg, he is, but he is far from the precision passer he sometimes is made out to be. To each their own. Maybe Petty is better than I give him credit for, but it just feels to me some make out Petty to be better than he is because they don't like Hackenberg. My man love for Petty has nothing to do with Hack BTW. I really liked him at Baylor, loved his quick release, his sneaky athleticism, his arm and yes his accuracy. Was extremely excited McCag traded up to get him. He just needs seasoning. I wanted NOTHING to do with Hack, wouldn't have drafted him in any round. I don't think he will ever be a consistently accurate thrower of the football. _
|
|
|
Post by Hotman on Oct 10, 2016 13:49:22 GMT -5
I wish. Bowles wont bench this fkin loser Fitz!
|
|
|
Post by HawkeyeJet on Oct 10, 2016 13:51:37 GMT -5
That's precisely my point. People greatly exaggerate how accurate Petty is. Petty threw 60ish percent in Baylor's offense. That's not especially good in that offense. He, just like Hackenberg, was extremely streaky with his accuracy at the college level. I'm not trying to say he's not more accurate than Hackenberg, he is, but he is far from the precision passer he sometimes is made out to be. I think we were watching different players. I thought Petty was very accurate at Baylor. Hack was brutal. Not even close. IMHO. _ Petty threw 60-63% completion throwing nothing but Smoke screen, flats, and go routes. That's not good. The really good Qbs in Briles system approach 70% or above. Like I said, to each their own, but I would never describe Petty as very accurate. His deep ball accuracy, in particular, was one things constantly questioned during the draft. I will add that I'm not anti-Petty at all either. I think he has enough skills to warrant a shot. I give him about equal chance of succeeding than Hack, maybe slightly less, but I'm not very confident in either.
|
|
|
Post by Hotman on Oct 10, 2016 13:51:42 GMT -5
I've heard all the excuses about Hack at PSU and I am not buying any of it--he is just not a naturally accurate thrower of the football. No amount of "fixing" his "mechanics" are going to change that. That shit Never works and WILL never work, especially with us. He will never be able to throw, just like we couldn't teach Steven Hill to catch or Vernon Ghost to not be such a big pussy.
|
|
|
Post by JStokes on Oct 10, 2016 14:28:31 GMT -5
I think we were watching different players. I thought Petty was very accurate at Baylor. Hack was brutal. Not even close. IMHO. _ Petty threw 60-63% completion throwing nothing but Smoke screen, flats, and go routes. That's not good. The really good Qbs in Briles system approach 70% or above. Like I said, to each their own, but I would never describe Petty as very accurate. His deep ball accuracy, in particular, was one things constantly questioned during the draft. I will add that I'm not anti-Petty at all either. I think he has enough skills to warrant a shot. I give him about equal chance of succeeding than Hack, maybe slightly less, but I'm not very confident in either. Completion percentage versus accuracy - the age old argument. Watching Petty and watching Hack in college, they're in two different universes in terms of accuracy. We'll just have to disagree. _
|
|
|
Post by Lithfan on Oct 10, 2016 14:42:14 GMT -5
Petty threw 60-63% completion throwing nothing but Smoke screen, flats, and go routes. That's not good. The really good Qbs in Briles system approach 70% or above. Like I said, to each their own, but I would never describe Petty as very accurate. His deep ball accuracy, in particular, was one things constantly questioned during the draft. I will add that I'm not anti-Petty at all either. I think he has enough skills to warrant a shot. I give him about equal chance of succeeding than Hack, maybe slightly less, but I'm not very confident in either. Completion percentage versus accuracy - the age old argument. Watching Petty and watching Hack in college, they're in two different universes in terms of accuracy. We'll just have to disagree. _ In college, I saw Petty as a one read QB. If his first read was open, he could make the throw and put it in the right spot. He struggled when he had to go through progressions and his accuracy suffered. I thought that aspect of his game improved in the preseason. While I thought Petty was highly inconsistent in August, I did like his deep ball accuracy. With Fitz, we are an offense that lacks the ability to make big plays. 3 times that I recall in the last two games we had opportunities for big plays deep when Robby Anderson got open down the field. All 3 times, Fitz missed him. They were the kind of throws that Petty connected on several times during the preseason. I am sure that if we put Petty in there, it will be ugly at times (but its been ugly with Fitz anyway), but I think he would have the ability to make some plays down the field and the defense would have to respect the deep ball which might open some things up in the running game as well.
|
|
|
Post by RobR on Oct 10, 2016 14:59:26 GMT -5
I liked him much more than Hack coming out in the draft. I know we don't see eye to eye much, so I'm trying to keep this question civil. But why is that? Petty doesn't have as many desirable NFL traits as Hackenburg does. I don't want this to turn into me "defending " Hackenburg, because I highly doubt he's the answer, but I think lots of people over estimate Petty'a skill set and football IQ. Because I watched both Petty and Hackenberg play in college. Hackenberg is a statue with no accuracy and IMO you can't fix that. Some of the same reasons I never liked Connor Cook, they are two QB's who can barely complete a dump off pass. At least Petty was accurate and mobile. Edit: Didn't see the other posts in this thread before I responded. Basically everything Stokes said.
|
|
|
Post by Harrier on Oct 10, 2016 15:10:13 GMT -5
Completion percentage versus accuracy - the age old argument. Watching Petty and watching Hack in college, they're in two different universes in terms of accuracy. We'll just have to disagree. _ In college, I saw Petty as a one read QB. If his first read was open, he could make the throw and put it in the right spot. He struggled when he had to go through progressions and his accuracy suffered. I thought that aspect of his game improved in the preseason. While I thought Petty was highly inconsistent in August, I did like his deep ball accuracy. With Fitz, we are an offense that lacks the ability to make big plays. 3 times that I recall in the last two games we had opportunities for big plays deep when Robby Anderson got open down the field. All 3 times, Fitz missed him. They were the kind of throws that Petty connected on several times during the preseason. I am sure that if we put Petty in there, it will be ugly at times (but its been ugly with Fitz anyway), but I think he would have the ability to make some plays down the field and the defense would have to respect the deep ball which might open some things up in the running game as well. This has always been my biggest problem with Fitz. All good defences look at Fitz and think "shut the run game down and put the ball in his hands and let him beat us" they don't respect his arm and know we will resort to checking the ball down,screens and lobbing back shoulder throws up to Marshall. The lack of a deep threat to keep a defense honest makes us too predictable and easy to gameplan for, it's also the reason I think Gailey is gettin cute in certain situations.
|
|
|
Post by JStokes on Oct 10, 2016 15:15:45 GMT -5
Completion percentage versus accuracy - the age old argument. Watching Petty and watching Hack in college, they're in two different universes in terms of accuracy. We'll just have to disagree. _ In college, I saw Petty as a one read QB. If his first read was open, he could make the throw and put it in the right spot. He struggled when he had to go through progressions and his accuracy suffered. I thought that aspect of his game improved in the preseason. While I thought Petty was highly inconsistent in August, I did like his deep ball accuracy. With Fitz, we are an offense that lacks the ability to make big plays. 3 times that I recall in the last two games we had opportunities for big plays deep when Robby Anderson got open down the field. All 3 times, Fitz missed him. They were the kind of throws that Petty connected on several times during the preseason. I am sure that if we put Petty in there, it will be ugly at times (but its been ugly with Fitz anyway), but I think he would have the ability to make some plays down the field and the defense would have to respect the deep ball which might open some things up in the running game as well. Again, that was a function of the system he was in. He wasn't asked to go through mutiple reads, but even then, when he extended playes with his legs he was always looking downfield and was very accurate throwing on the move. But he IS a more naturally accurate thrower than Hack. Hack wasn't even hitting his first reads--he was brutal. The fact that Petty was hitting with ease his first read meant to me that he had the abiity to make accurate throws once he got some seasoning and learned the pro game and developed the ability to go through reads. Plus I love his gunslinger mentality. Hack has always looked skittish to me--even his freshman year when he was supposedly "great". And I agree with you that he seems to have improved his downfield accuracy. I think the dude might be the answer. I have no illusions with Hack. _
|
|