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Post by Bavarian on Dec 11, 2014 15:09:20 GMT -5
I'm on board with this if Bringing in Harbaugh will force Idzik out which is even better. I rather have Cook if he comes out I'm tired of these run around pistol option QB. Just look at kaprenick, RG3, Cam Newton before the accident. These guys are not even in the league 5 Years and declining rather see the Jets draft Cook who runs a pro style offense and is classic dtop back passer. Cook declared he would come out early only if he was secured a top 5 pick. Not happening.
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pcola
Junior Member
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Post by pcola on Dec 11, 2014 15:29:09 GMT -5
Absolutely agree. Our o-line is a rusted sieve. If we dwaft Winston or Mariota and don't upgrade our o-line we're shooting ourselves in the foot. That would be through FA as there are not any blue chip OLinemen in this dwaft. Some good OG's in FA who would instantly upgrade the entire line (and keep Winters far away from screwing up the LG position.) Orlando Franklin and Mike Iupati lead that position and yeah, this might be the highest priority FA signing. The OLine must be stabilized and this would go a long ways towards that.
The Jets are going to have some money to spend (and can free up more with cuts) and I wouldn't be opposed to getting Michael Crabtree especially should Harbaugh arrive. I'd also cut ties with Chris Johnson and sign another 49er in Frank Gore (for the same money) who's getting older and could split time with Ivory. The money is there and more than this, more will become available when they cut CJ as I mentioned, Harris, Harvin (while recouping a high 4th rounder) along with Colon (money towards Iupati), and Vick not to mention Babin, Pace and Landry. Iupati, Gore and Crabtree could easily be afforded and would all run the offense for Jim seamlessly.
I agree on Crabtree. With SF having the issues they have and a new offensive staff he may want to leave. I'd say cut Harvin AND Use His $$ To Sign Crabtree. If Harvin is still available after the draft, sign him to a sensible deal. Not one you'd give to a #1 WR.
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 11, 2014 15:41:22 GMT -5
That would be through FA as there are not any blue chip OLinemen in this dwaft. Some good OG's in FA who would instantly upgrade the entire line (and keep Winters far away from screwing up the LG position.) Orlando Franklin and Mike Iupati lead that position and yeah, this might be the highest priority FA signing. The OLine must be stabilized and this would go a long ways towards that.
The Jets are going to have some money to spend (and can free up more with cuts) and I wouldn't be opposed to getting Michael Crabtree especially should Harbaugh arrive. I'd also cut ties with Chris Johnson and sign another 49er in Frank Gore (for the same money) who's getting older and could split time with Ivory. The money is there and more than this, more will become available when they cut CJ as I mentioned, Harris, Harvin (while recouping a high 4th rounder) along with Colon (money towards Iupati), and Vick not to mention Babin, Pace and Landry. Iupati, Gore and Crabtree could easily be afforded and would all run the offense for Jim seamlessly.
I agree on Crabtree. With SF having the issues they have and a new offensive staff he may want to leave. I'd say cut Harvin AND Use His $$ To Sign Crabtree. If Harvin is still available after the draft, sign him to a sensible deal. Not one you'd give to a #1 WR. Crabtree, Iupati and Gore are all free agents in March...that's why I brought them up specifically. Not to mention their backup QB, Josh Johnson who would be the likely mentor to the rookie QB should the Jets get lucky enough to land one. Agreed on Harvin.
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Post by Touchable on Dec 13, 2014 18:21:29 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000442679/article/nfl-general-manager-candidates-new-names-and-familiar-facesMarcus Mariota, quarterback, Oregon: It's hard to imagine having a better reputation coming into the NFL than Mariota will -- and assuming both he and Winston come out, the stark contrast in that area between the two will be as obvious as the difference in the weather of their locales. "He's the best quarterback (in college)," one AFC college scouting director said. "He's an athlete, he has size, a strong arm, he's smart, and he has all the intangibles. ... He has all the tools." The director then mentioned that Mariota has done it this year with more youth at the skill positions and said he expects to give Mariota a significantly higher grade than he gave RGIII in 2012. The one issue here is his pedigree in a spread, given the issues of Griffin and Colin Kaepernick, but most NFL folks think (hope?) he can make the transition. Like Blake Bortles last year, Mariota's capable of convincing a team he'll be able to figure it out. "I'm not sure that the spread's been the problem with those guys," one NFL quarterbacks coach said. "I mean, go back to Drew Brees -- he played in a spread offense in college. That was the spread then, they threw it 83 times in one game. And I don't think that guy's struggling because of the spread." Point is that being the right kind of guy is important. By all accounts, Mariota is that.This isn't the first time I've read this from scouts either. The majority of them seem to agree that coming from the spread isn't a big concern with Mariota at all. That the kid is smart enough and talented enough to thrive in any offense. Of course you're going to throw in some option and rollout stuff when you have a QB with 4.4 speed. Why the hell would you let that go to waste? I'd still be willing to give up a future 1st and a 2nd or 3rd this year for him if that's what it takes. Otherwise, what the hell are we looking at for at least the next 2-3 years at QB? There's no one in FA who could be considered a long term solution outside of MAYBE Sam Bradford if he can put the injuries behind him. Still, there's no guarantee that the Rams will part with him. And who's to say that we'll be in position to draft a kid like Cook (if he stays in school) or Hackenberg next year? If the Jets, a team with the worst QB situation in the league, are picking in the Top 5 and are well within striking distance of landing a highly touted young QB...then why the hell shouldn't they make the move? Seriously. Give me one good reason other than "well...I don't wanna sell the farm" because as it stands right now, the farm is a barren, drought ridden fucking dust bowl with no hope in sight until we land a promising young QB.
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 14, 2014 1:54:38 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000442679/article/nfl-general-manager-candidates-new-names-and-familiar-facesMarcus Mariota, quarterback, Oregon: It's hard to imagine having a better reputation coming into the NFL than Mariota will -- and assuming both he and Winston come out, the stark contrast in that area between the two will be as obvious as the difference in the weather of their locales. "He's the best quarterback (in college)," one AFC college scouting director said. "He's an athlete, he has size, a strong arm, he's smart, and he has all the intangibles. ... He has all the tools." The director then mentioned that Mariota has done it this year with more youth at the skill positions and said he expects to give Mariota a significantly higher grade than he gave RGIII in 2012. The one issue here is his pedigree in a spread, given the issues of Griffin and Colin Kaepernick, but most NFL folks think (hope?) he can make the transition. Like Blake Bortles last year, Mariota's capable of convincing a team he'll be able to figure it out. "I'm not sure that the spread's been the problem with those guys," one NFL quarterbacks coach said. "I mean, go back to Drew Brees -- he played in a spread offense in college. That was the spread then, they threw it 83 times in one game. And I don't think that guy's struggling because of the spread." Point is that being the right kind of guy is important. By all accounts, Mariota is that.This isn't the first time I've read this from scouts either. The majority of them seem to agree that coming from the spread isn't a big concern with Mariota at all. That the kid is smart enough and talented enough to thrive in any offense. Of course you're going to throw in some option and rollout stuff when you have a QB with 4.4 speed. Why the hell would you let that go to waste? I'd still be willing to give up a future 1st and a 2nd or 3rd this year for him if that's what it takes. Otherwise, what the hell are we looking at for at least the next 2-3 years at QB? There's no one in FA who could be considered a long term solution outside of MAYBE Sam Bradford if he can put the injuries behind him. Still, there's no guarantee that the Rams will part with him. And who's to say that we'll be in position to draft a kid like Cook (if he stays in school) or Hackenberg next year? If the Jets, a team with the worst QB situation in the league, are picking in the Top 5 and are well within striking distance of landing a highly touted young QB...then why the hell shouldn't they make the move? Seriously. Give me one good reason other than "well...I don't wanna sell the farm" because as it stands right now, the farm is a barren, drought ridden fucking dust bowl with no hope in sight until we land a promising young QB. You could insert Mariota with Geno Smith two years ago and it would read exactly the same. And we all saw that when he was thrust into a pro-style offense, things didn't exactly speed up. And who's to say this won't happen to Mariota? As we saw in Oakland this year and NY last year, backups can get hurt and the rookie must be thrown in there by default. Mariota's learning curve will be no different than Geno's was. He does not play under center at all and the funny thing with this spread offense is that the darlings of this two years ago - RGIII and Kaepernick, seem to have been solved by the league. The NFL has taken away those first looks and these guys are powerless to first make the proper reads and then follow through with their progressions as they should. They never learned this and didn't have to.
This is why I'm firmly in Winston's camp and believe that Mariota is nothing more than a glorified Geno Smith having run an even easier offense than Geno did in WV. Winston has been running a pro-style offense and shows very good pocket awareness executing the 3,5 and 7 step drops and IMO would seamlessly adapt to the pros and contribute quickly without a lot of those growing pains we've seen from the spread and read-first offenses in college.
I would take your plan B option with Bradford before taking a flier on Mariota. If we're up there and Winston's off the board, I'd try to trade out and get another pick or two. I think he's all hype and we'll see more reviews as time goes on but I would take them with a grain of salt knowing the offense he has run and how this will be a detriment to his learning curve in the NFL. I think this AFC scout in this instance mentions this but doesn't give it its proper concern. I think it's huge.
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Post by jetstream23 on Dec 14, 2014 2:07:53 GMT -5
I think there's a 50% chance Harbaugh would consider the Jets if Idzik were gone, and probably a 20% chance if Idzik is still here. My educated guess is that Jim stays in the Bay area and coaches Oakland. He's a Bay area guy, wife loves it there, he's now coached Stanford and the SF 49ers. Oakland is a dumpster fire but it would give him a long leash annnnnnnd....they seem to have a future franchise QB. I think Harbaugh would love to get his hands on Derek Carr (no homo.......well, maybe a little...they ARE in San Francisco!)
I'd trade Rex for Harbaugh straight up if I could, trade up to draft Mariota to compete with Geno, sign Iupati for the OLine and retain Harvin (for the time being). That would be instant change and instant opportunity to upgrade the offense under a coach like Harbaugh. We'd find out quickly under his tutelage whether Geno is salvageable and have a guy who could hopefully develop Mariota. At the same time...Decker, Harvin and Kerley are respectable enough to keep us honest in the passing game and each of them would be helpful to a young QB as they're all veterans and could be sure-handed playmakers. I think we'd also look at a RB in the middle rounds to play behind Ivory and Powell.
The defensive secondary is a train wreck but there's a ray of hope if....IF....Milliner and McDougal return to 100%. We need to sign a bonafide low-end #1 or high-end #2 CB that we'd throw into the mix with those two guys, Darin Walls, and Philip Adams I'd think.
Lots of work to be done but it all starts with the HC and the QB....as it does everywhere else in the League. Move heaven and earth to fill the HC and QB spots with competent guys who have high ceilings. At this point, Harbaugh and Mariota are a Jets fan's wet dream.
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Post by maury77 on Dec 14, 2014 9:45:28 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000442679/article/nfl-general-manager-candidates-new-names-and-familiar-facesMarcus Mariota, quarterback, Oregon: It's hard to imagine having a better reputation coming into the NFL than Mariota will -- and assuming both he and Winston come out, the stark contrast in that area between the two will be as obvious as the difference in the weather of their locales. "He's the best quarterback (in college)," one AFC college scouting director said. "He's an athlete, he has size, a strong arm, he's smart, and he has all the intangibles. ... He has all the tools." The director then mentioned that Mariota has done it this year with more youth at the skill positions and said he expects to give Mariota a significantly higher grade than he gave RGIII in 2012. The one issue here is his pedigree in a spread, given the issues of Griffin and Colin Kaepernick, but most NFL folks think (hope?) he can make the transition. Like Blake Bortles last year, Mariota's capable of convincing a team he'll be able to figure it out. "I'm not sure that the spread's been the problem with those guys," one NFL quarterbacks coach said. "I mean, go back to Drew Brees -- he played in a spread offense in college. That was the spread then, they threw it 83 times in one game. And I don't think that guy's struggling because of the spread." Point is that being the right kind of guy is important. By all accounts, Mariota is that.This isn't the first time I've read this from scouts either. The majority of them seem to agree that coming from the spread isn't a big concern with Mariota at all. That the kid is smart enough and talented enough to thrive in any offense. Of course you're going to throw in some option and rollout stuff when you have a QB with 4.4 speed. Why the hell would you let that go to waste? I'd still be willing to give up a future 1st and a 2nd or 3rd this year for him if that's what it takes. Otherwise, what the hell are we looking at for at least the next 2-3 years at QB? There's no one in FA who could be considered a long term solution outside of MAYBE Sam Bradford if he can put the injuries behind him. Still, there's no guarantee that the Rams will part with him. And who's to say that we'll be in position to draft a kid like Cook (if he stays in school) or Hackenberg next year? If the Jets, a team with the worst QB situation in the league, are picking in the Top 5 and are well within striking distance of landing a highly touted young QB...then why the hell shouldn't they make the move? Seriously. Give me one good reason other than "well...I don't wanna sell the farm" because as it stands right now, the farm is a barren, drought ridden fucking dust bowl with no hope in sight until we land a promising young QB. You could insert Mariota with Geno Smith two years ago and it would read exactly the same. And we all saw that when he was thrust into a pro-style offense, things didn't exactly speed up. And who's to say this won't happen to Mariota? As we saw in Oakland this year and NY last year, backups can get hurt and the rookie must be thrown in there by default. Mariota's learning curve will be no different than Geno's was. He does not play under center at all and the funny thing with this spread offense is that the darlings of this two years ago - RGIII and Kaepernick, seem to have been solved by the league. The NFL has taken away those first looks and these guys are powerless to first make the proper reads and then follow through with their progressions as they should. They never learned this and didn't have to.
This is why I'm firmly in Winston's camp and believe that Mariota is nothing more than a glorified Geno Smith having run an even easier offense than Geno did in WV. Winston has been running a pro-style offense and shows very good pocket awareness executing the 3,5 and 7 step drops and IMO would seamlessly adapt to the pros and contribute quickly without a lot of those growing pains we've seen from the spread and read-first offenses in college.
I would take your plan B option with Bradford before taking a flier on Mariota. If we're up there and Winston's off the board, I'd try to trade out and get another pick or two. I think he's all hype and we'll see more reviews as time goes on but I would take them with a grain of salt knowing the offense he has run and how this will be a detriment to his learning curve in the NFL. I think this AFC scout in this instance mentions this but doesn't give it its proper concern. I think it's huge.
+1
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Post by HawkeyeJet on Dec 14, 2014 10:21:06 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000442679/article/nfl-general-manager-candidates-new-names-and-familiar-facesMarcus Mariota, quarterback, Oregon: It's hard to imagine having a better reputation coming into the NFL than Mariota will -- and assuming both he and Winston come out, the stark contrast in that area between the two will be as obvious as the difference in the weather of their locales. "He's the best quarterback (in college)," one AFC college scouting director said. "He's an athlete, he has size, a strong arm, he's smart, and he has all the intangibles. ... He has all the tools." The director then mentioned that Mariota has done it this year with more youth at the skill positions and said he expects to give Mariota a significantly higher grade than he gave RGIII in 2012. The one issue here is his pedigree in a spread, given the issues of Griffin and Colin Kaepernick, but most NFL folks think (hope?) he can make the transition. Like Blake Bortles last year, Mariota's capable of convincing a team he'll be able to figure it out. "I'm not sure that the spread's been the problem with those guys," one NFL quarterbacks coach said. "I mean, go back to Drew Brees -- he played in a spread offense in college. That was the spread then, they threw it 83 times in one game. And I don't think that guy's struggling because of the spread." Point is that being the right kind of guy is important. By all accounts, Mariota is that.This isn't the first time I've read this from scouts either. The majority of them seem to agree that coming from the spread isn't a big concern with Mariota at all. That the kid is smart enough and talented enough to thrive in any offense. Of course you're going to throw in some option and rollout stuff when you have a QB with 4.4 speed. Why the hell would you let that go to waste? I'd still be willing to give up a future 1st and a 2nd or 3rd this year for him if that's what it takes. Otherwise, what the hell are we looking at for at least the next 2-3 years at QB? There's no one in FA who could be considered a long term solution outside of MAYBE Sam Bradford if he can put the injuries behind him. Still, there's no guarantee that the Rams will part with him. And who's to say that we'll be in position to draft a kid like Cook (if he stays in school) or Hackenberg next year? If the Jets, a team with the worst QB situation in the league, are picking in the Top 5 and are well within striking distance of landing a highly touted young QB...then why the hell shouldn't they make the move? Seriously. Give me one good reason other than "well...I don't wanna sell the farm" because as it stands right now, the farm is a barren, drought ridden fucking dust bowl with no hope in sight until we land a promising young QB. You could insert Mariota with Geno Smith two years ago and it would read exactly the same. And we all saw that when he was thrust into a pro-style offense, things didn't exactly speed up. And who's to say this won't happen to Mariota? As we saw in Oakland this year and NY last year, backups can get hurt and the rookie must be thrown in there by default. Mariota's learning curve will be no different than Geno's was. He does not play under center at all and the funny thing with this spread offense is that the darlings of this two years ago - RGIII and Kaepernick, seem to have been solved by the league. The NFL has taken away those first looks and these guys are powerless to first make the proper reads and then follow through with their progressions as they should. They never learned this and didn't have to.
This is why I'm firmly in Winston's camp and believe that Mariota is nothing more than a glorified Geno Smith having run an even easier offense than Geno did in WV. Winston has been running a pro-style offense and shows very good pocket awareness executing the 3,5 and 7 step drops and IMO would seamlessly adapt to the pros and contribute quickly without a lot of those growing pains we've seen from the spread and read-first offenses in college.
I would take your plan B option with Bradford before taking a flier on Mariota. If we're up there and Winston's off the board, I'd try to trade out and get another pick or two. I think he's all hype and we'll see more reviews as time goes on but I would take them with a grain of salt knowing the offense he has run and how this will be a detriment to his learning curve in the NFL. I think this AFC scout in this instance mentions this but doesn't give it its proper concern. I think it's huge.
Comparing Mariota and Geno and saying they are essentially the same prospect is a stretch. A huge stretch. Oregon's offense is not very similar to WVU's, and the passing scheme at WVU is much further from a pro style than Oregon. It's hilarious that someone in the Winston camp would bring up the league figuring out Kapernick by taking away his first read. What exactly do you think happens in Florida State offense? Winston isn't making complex reads and getting to 3rd and 4th progressions. They give him half field reads and plays all the time. He may take snaps from under center, but he is not running anything close to an NFL offense. On a side note, how has Kapernick become the measuring stick for Mariota? Kapernick was not this polished or this level of prospec. That would beessentially using Charlie Batch's career to decid what Winston's ceiling is.
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Post by gangrene on Dec 14, 2014 10:43:46 GMT -5
My guess is the Jets win today and fall behind Washington to seventh place in the draft based on Washington's weaker schedule. If Idzik stays we are not going to trade up. Idzik is way to cautious to stake his career on a trade that could go either way. I wonder if there are previous scenarios where a team traded away future number ones like Washington did and the trade worked out. I think of those ginormous deals like Herschel Walker, Ricky Williams. It's too early to tell on Sammy Watkins.
Does anyone remember one ?
Depending on how Winston does on January 1st versus Oregon will go a long way to prove the doubter wrong. If he interviews well, settles the likely upcoming civil suit, he may go in the top ten. Because of character concerns the Jets may have a shot at Winston at the seventh position. Does Idzik, if he is still here, have the brass balls to draft the kid ?
I say no. Idzik will continue to look for a qb in the lower rounds.
To me Idzik is the biggest obstacle to the Jets winning a superbowl. I like the conservative use of the cap dollars but I don't see much beyond that.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Dec 14, 2014 10:59:05 GMT -5
Mariota a better prospect than RGIII? I know some really important scout said that, but that seems like a stretch. Now that he has won every award in the books and one person has come out and said it, it will snowball. It is going to be the accepted thing to say and no one will even question it.
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Post by HawkeyeJet on Dec 14, 2014 11:26:42 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000442679/article/nfl-general-manager-candidates-new-names-and-familiar-facesMarcus Mariota, quarterback, Oregon: It's hard to imagine having a better reputation coming into the NFL than Mariota will -- and assuming both he and Winston come out, the stark contrast in that area between the two will be as obvious as the difference in the weather of their locales. "He's the best quarterback (in college)," one AFC college scouting director said. "He's an athlete, he has size, a strong arm, he's smart, and he has all the intangibles. ... He has all the tools." The director then mentioned that Mariota has done it this year with more youth at the skill positions and said he expects to give Mariota a significantly higher grade than he gave RGIII in 2012. The one issue here is his pedigree in a spread, given the issues of Griffin and Colin Kaepernick, but most NFL folks think (hope?) he can make the transition. Like Blake Bortles last year, Mariota's capable of convincing a team he'll be able to figure it out. "I'm not sure that the spread's been the problem with those guys," one NFL quarterbacks coach said. "I mean, go back to Drew Brees -- he played in a spread offense in college. That was the spread then, they threw it 83 times in one game. And I don't think that guy's struggling because of the spread." Point is that being the right kind of guy is important. By all accounts, Mariota is that.This isn't the first time I've read this from scouts either. The majority of them seem to agree that coming from the spread isn't a big concern with Mariota at all. That the kid is smart enough and talented enough to thrive in any offense. Of course you're going to throw in some option and rollout stuff when you have a QB with 4.4 speed. Why the hell would you let that go to waste? I'd still be willing to give up a future 1st and a 2nd or 3rd this year for him if that's what it takes. Otherwise, what the hell are we looking at for at least the next 2-3 years at QB? There's no one in FA who could be considered a long term solution outside of MAYBE Sam Bradford if he can put the injuries behind him. Still, there's no guarantee that the Rams will part with him. And who's to say that we'll be in position to draft a kid like Cook (if he stays in school) or Hackenberg next year? If the Jets, a team with the worst QB situation in the league, are picking in the Top 5 and are well within striking distance of landing a highly touted young QB...then why the hell shouldn't they make the move? Seriously. Give me one good reason other than "well...I don't wanna sell the farm" because as it stands right now, the farm is a barren, drought ridden fucking dust bowl with no hope in sight until we land a promising young QB. how do you get the article to copy over in nice neat text like that?
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