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Post by Hotman on Aug 10, 2015 19:52:45 GMT -5
Listen, I personally don't think I would ever boo Geno in practice, but lets all remember, Geno has done an awful lot in his 2 seasons to earn some profound hatred from the Jet faithful. He has single-handedly lost more games than I care to remember, and he has also been the largest single contributing factor to getting a coach loved by many hardcore fans - fired. Not really hard to figure out why some fans are going to boo him at ANY opportunity, including training camp practices. Rex got himself fired with his lack of accountability, stubbornness and results. If anything I'd argue that Rex and his crew are way more of a factor in a 22 year old Geno's play, in his first two years in the league, than Geno being a factor in Rex's firing. A QB needs developmental time, coaching and the proper environment to excel - Geno has had none until this year. Not everyone can be Andrew Luck - Aaron Rodgers sat for three years as a back-up before he started a game, Geno was tossed right into the fire with no weapons and a defensive minded coach with an inept staff. Yeah.. blaming Geno for REX getting himself fired is pretty nuts. Just look at what the buffoon is doing in Buffalo. He's learned absolutely NOTHING. Dude may be the most stubborn person alive with such a high paying job. well maybe not that, but he is definitely stubborn.
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Post by Vondarkmoor on Aug 10, 2015 20:54:54 GMT -5
Rex got himself fired with his lack of accountability, stubbornness and results. If anything I'd argue that Rex and his crew are way more of a factor in a 22 year old Geno's play, in his first two years in the league, than Geno being a factor in Rex's firing. A QB needs developmental time, coaching and the proper environment to excel - Geno has had none until this year. Not everyone can be Andrew Luck - Aaron Rodgers sat for three years as a back-up before he started a game, Geno was tossed right into the fire with no weapons and a defensive minded coach with an inept staff. Yeah.. blaming Geno for REX getting himself fired is pretty nuts. Just look at what the buffoon is doing in Buffalo. He's learned absolutely NOTHING. Dude may be the most stubborn person alive with such a high paying job. well maybe not that, but he is definitely stubborn. I hope Geno leads us to a championship, I really do, BUT Was Ryan perfect during his tenure? Of course not, but Ryan and MM had plenty of success in the past prior to 2014. Can we say the same for Geno? The math is pretty simple from my perspective. Idzik's roster + Having to play the worst QB in the NFL (as per the ESPN NFL coaches and scouts poll) = terrible record = coach fired. To your point about Ryan being the factor in Geno's disaster of a season - What proof do you have other than conjecture? All I know is that Sanchez has not exactly blossomed once he was freed from the oppressive yolk of the Ryan regime.
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Post by Hotman on Aug 10, 2015 21:16:46 GMT -5
To your point about Ryan being the factor in Geno's disaster of a season i never made a point of that... Just that Rex only has himself to blame and he hasnt learned anything from his failures. Geno sucked plenty on his own but blaming him for Rex's failures and massive goofs is pretty insane. On par with flats fans and their ideal gas bullshit or whatever flavor of the day excuse they come up with.
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Post by Vondarkmoor on Aug 10, 2015 21:29:01 GMT -5
Rex got himself fired with his lack of accountability, stubbornness and results. If anything I'd argue that Rex and his crew are way more of a factor in a 22 year old Geno's play, in his first two years in the league, than Geno being a factor in Rex's firing. A QB needs developmental time, coaching and the proper environment to excel - Geno has had none until this year. Not everyone can be Andrew Luck - Aaron Rodgers sat for three years as a back-up before he started a game, Geno was tossed right into the fire with no weapons and a defensive minded coach with an inept staff. Yeah.. blaming Geno for REX getting himself fired is pretty nuts. Just look at what the buffoon is doing in Buffalo. He's learned absolutely NOTHING. Dude may be the most stubborn person alive with such a high paying job. well maybe not that, but he is definitely stubborn. To clear up who I was referring to...
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Post by RayRay1 on Aug 10, 2015 21:52:55 GMT -5
Yes, we should be blowing smoke up the ass of the 3rd year QB making more in one year than you will in your life. I'm on record defending this kid as having been thrown into the fire too soon, but I still reserve the right to boo the fuck out of him for playing like a shit head. This is NY: it's either tough love or no love. I got greatness smacked into me as a kid, so should these pampered fucks. Shut the fuck up!!!
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Post by Peebag on Aug 10, 2015 21:55:26 GMT -5
Yes, we should be blowing smoke up the ass of the 3rd year QB making more in one year than you will in your life. I'm on record defending this kid as having been thrown into the fire too soon, but I still reserve the right to boo the fuck out of him for playing like a shit head. This is NY: it's either tough love or no love. I got greatness smacked into me as a kid, so should these pampered fucks. Shut the fuck up!!! Fantastic retort!
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Post by jcappy on Aug 10, 2015 22:01:35 GMT -5
Yeah.. blaming Geno for REX getting himself fired is pretty nuts. Just look at what the buffoon is doing in Buffalo. He's learned absolutely NOTHING. Dude may be the most stubborn person alive with such a high paying job. well maybe not that, but he is definitely stubborn. I hope Geno leads us to a championship, I really do, BUT Was Ryan perfect during his tenure? Of course not, but Ryan and MM had plenty of success in the past prior to 2014. Can we say the same for Geno? The math is pretty simple from my perspective. Idzik's roster + Having to play the worst QB in the NFL (as per the ESPN NFL coaches and scouts poll) = terrible record = coach fired. To your point about Ryan being the factor in Geno's disaster of a season - What proof do you have other than conjecture? All I know is that Sanchez has not exactly blossomed once he was freed from the oppressive yolk of the Ryan regime. To me it comes down to the fact that you're talking about a young QB vs a coach who failed with two different, albeit flawed, QBs in Sanchez and Geno. Rex was successful and very much so for 2009-10 but fell flat every year after, increasingly showing that he valued his defense being great over having a capable offense. Hell, he would even say things like "Oh, I wasn't watching the offense, I don't really handle that". At no point in his near 30 years of coaching experience has he showed he's capable of developing an offense and throughout his tenure here he was never on the same page with his offensive staff, stressing ground and pound and things like the wildcat. No, we can't say Geno has had success prior to 2013 (beyond college) because he hasn't had any opportunity, and that's exactly my point. He was a second round draft pick who was expected to sit for at least a season under Sanchez but was tossed directly into NFL action with no weapons and a defensive minded coach with a poor offensive mindset. I'm not saying Rex was THE factor but I'm damn sure he played a significant role. I liked Rex but he brought about his own demise. Yeah everything I'm saying is conjecture but so is the other side of the argument, obviously no one can point to exactly whose fault is what or why things played out how they have. I fully accept there is a possibility that Geno might just suck and Rex was the misunderstood savior of this franchise, but I hardly believe that. And as an aside Sanchez (last year with the Eagles in his one year not under Ryan) had his best passing percentage, most yards per attempt, best QBR and was on pace to far exceed his yardage and TD totals if he had played a full season. Just saying.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 22:14:34 GMT -5
Yes, we should be blowing smoke up the ass of the 3rd year QB making more in one year than you will in your life. I'm on record defending this kid as having been thrown into the fire too soon, but I still reserve the right to boo the fuck out of him for playing like a shit head. This is NY: it's either tough love or no love. I got greatness smacked into me as a kid, so should these pampered fucks. Shut the fuck up!!! Don't you have some Korean kid chained up in your basement that you should be tending to? Your next remotely clever post will be your first, and that's a galactic accomplishment considering the 100,000 posts you've tortured everyone with over the years. Just go away. And don't forget the kimche.
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Post by Vondarkmoor on Aug 11, 2015 5:56:36 GMT -5
I hope Geno leads us to a championship, I really do, BUT Was Ryan perfect during his tenure? Of course not, but Ryan and MM had plenty of success in the past prior to 2014. Can we say the same for Geno? The math is pretty simple from my perspective. Idzik's roster + Having to play the worst QB in the NFL (as per the ESPN NFL coaches and scouts poll) = terrible record = coach fired. To your point about Ryan being the factor in Geno's disaster of a season - What proof do you have other than conjecture? All I know is that Sanchez has not exactly blossomed once he was freed from the oppressive yolk of the Ryan regime. To me it comes down to the fact that you're talking about a young QB vs a coach who failed with two different, albeit flawed, QBs in Sanchez and Geno. Rex was successful and very much so for 2009-10 but fell flat every year after, increasingly showing that he valued his defense being great over having a capable offense. Hell, he would even say things like "Oh, I wasn't watching the offense, I don't really handle that". At no point in his near 30 years of coaching experience has he showed he's capable of developing an offense and throughout his tenure here he was never on the same page with his offensive staff, stressing ground and pound and things like the wildcat. No, we can't say Geno has had success prior to 2013 (beyond college) because he hasn't had any opportunity, and that's exactly my point. He was a second round draft pick who was expected to sit for at least a season under Sanchez but was tossed directly into NFL action with no weapons and a defensive minded coach with a poor offensive mindset. I'm not saying Rex was THE factor but I'm damn sure he played a significant role. I liked Rex but he brought about his own demise. Yeah everything I'm saying is conjecture but so is the other side of the argument, obviously no one can point to exactly whose fault is what or why things played out how they have. I fully accept there is a possibility that Geno might just suck and Rex was the misunderstood savior of this franchise, but I hardly believe that. And as an aside Sanchez (last year with the Eagles in his one year not under Ryan) had his best passing percentage, most yards per attempt, best QBR and was on pace to far exceed his yardage and TD totals if he had played a full season. Just saying. When Ryan was brought on board, it was no secret that he was a defensive coach, and there is no denying that Ryan has not had any juggernaut or even good offenses in his tenure with the Jets. The best ones he had were 09-10 and look how far the team went. If you want to blame him for some of his offensive hires (Sparano) I am totally fine with that, but you also tend to place the failings of the GM squarely on Ryan as well. Take an objective look at the NFL reputation of Tanny and Idzik as team builders. Much like the NFL opinion on Geno, it isn't very high. And are we arguing that Sanchez is anything more than a career backup QB? Really? How long did it take for an injury-riddled Bradford to pass him on the depth chart?
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Post by jcappy on Aug 11, 2015 7:08:57 GMT -5
To me it comes down to the fact that you're talking about a young QB vs a coach who failed with two different, albeit flawed, QBs in Sanchez and Geno. Rex was successful and very much so for 2009-10 but fell flat every year after, increasingly showing that he valued his defense being great over having a capable offense. Hell, he would even say things like "Oh, I wasn't watching the offense, I don't really handle that". At no point in his near 30 years of coaching experience has he showed he's capable of developing an offense and throughout his tenure here he was never on the same page with his offensive staff, stressing ground and pound and things like the wildcat. No, we can't say Geno has had success prior to 2013 (beyond college) because he hasn't had any opportunity, and that's exactly my point. He was a second round draft pick who was expected to sit for at least a season under Sanchez but was tossed directly into NFL action with no weapons and a defensive minded coach with a poor offensive mindset. I'm not saying Rex was THE factor but I'm damn sure he played a significant role. I liked Rex but he brought about his own demise. Yeah everything I'm saying is conjecture but so is the other side of the argument, obviously no one can point to exactly whose fault is what or why things played out how they have. I fully accept there is a possibility that Geno might just suck and Rex was the misunderstood savior of this franchise, but I hardly believe that. And as an aside Sanchez (last year with the Eagles in his one year not under Ryan) had his best passing percentage, most yards per attempt, best QBR and was on pace to far exceed his yardage and TD totals if he had played a full season. Just saying. When Ryan was brought on board, it was no secret that he was a defensive coach, and there is no denying that Ryan has not had any juggernaut or even good offenses in his tenure with the Jets. The best ones he had were 09-10 and look how far the team went. If you want to blame him for some of his offensive hires (Sparano) I am totally fine with that, but you also tend to place the failings of the GM squarely on Ryan as well. Take an objective look at the NFL reputation of Tanny and Idzik as team builders. Much like the NFL opinion on Geno, it isn't very high. And are we arguing that Sanchez is anything more than a career backup QB? Really? How long did it take for an injury-riddled Bradford to pass him on the depth chart? Oh I absolutely agree on Tanny and Idzik, but using that same point can't you say that Rex only excelled at offense when he was handed a readymade team? Idk, it straddles a fine line between coaching and talent, my original point still stands that Rex, and yes Idzik and MM as well, are key factors in Genos development or lackthereof. Not exclusively but factors nonetheless. And while I agree that Sanchez will probably never start again except due to circumstance he did put up his objectively best (half) season last year, just food for thought.
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Post by Vondarkmoor on Aug 11, 2015 13:18:45 GMT -5
When Ryan was brought on board, it was no secret that he was a defensive coach, and there is no denying that Ryan has not had any juggernaut or even good offenses in his tenure with the Jets. The best ones he had were 09-10 and look how far the team went. If you want to blame him for some of his offensive hires (Sparano) I am totally fine with that, but you also tend to place the failings of the GM squarely on Ryan as well. Take an objective look at the NFL reputation of Tanny and Idzik as team builders. Much like the NFL opinion on Geno, it isn't very high. And are we arguing that Sanchez is anything more than a career backup QB? Really? How long did it take for an injury-riddled Bradford to pass him on the depth chart? Oh I absolutely agree on Tanny and Idzik, but using that same point can't you say that Rex only excelled at offense when he was handed a readymade team? Idk, it straddles a fine line between coaching and talent, my original point still stands that Rex, and yes Idzik and MM as well, are key factors in Genos development or lackthereof. Not exclusively but factors nonetheless. And while I agree that Sanchez will probably never start again except due to circumstance he did put up his objectively best (half) season last year, just food for thought. Hey Joe, seems like we are closer to agreement on this topic more than I originally thought. Rex certainly did not do anything to distinguish himself on the offensive side of the ball, there's no question. However, you have to coach the players you are given. I don't think he and his staff were the total offensive disaster from the coaching side many make him out to be. After 09-10, the offensive talent fell off a cliff. I personally blame the front office more than the coach for this decline. Rex never had the influence and control in the organization to the point he could dictate what direction the draft went in. Tanny and Idzik had the final say in our drafts. One example is that Rex didn't want Stephen Hill, but Tanny drafted him him anyway. Among Rex haters he gets the lions share of blame for a level of talent on the offense that Don Coryell couldn't have salvaged. At any rate, I think the Jets will be a much improved team this year. I hope Geno exceeds all expectations and we win the AFC east. I will get a good chuckle when the Jets start proving the the NFL how much better they are, and we start hearing from Cimini, and lots of posters here how the "discipline" and "accountability" of the new regime are paying dividends. The fact that Mr. Coffee rebuilt the roster like a phoenix from the ashes of the ruin Idzik left will be an afterthought.
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Post by Vondarkmoor on Aug 11, 2015 13:31:57 GMT -5
Oh I absolutely agree on Tanny and Idzik, but using that same point can't you say that Rex only excelled at offense when he was handed a readymade team? Idk, it straddles a fine line between coaching and talent, my original point still stands that Rex, and yes Idzik and MM as well, are key factors in Genos development or lackthereof. Not exclusively but factors nonetheless. And while I agree that Sanchez will probably never start again except due to circumstance he did put up his objectively best (half) season last year, just food for thought. Hey Joe, seems like we are closer to agreement on this topic more than I originally thought. Rex certainly did not do anything to distinguish himself on the offensive side of the ball, there's no question. However, you have to coach the players you are given. I don't think he and his staff were the total offensive disaster from the coaching side many make him out to be. After 09-10, the offensive talent fell off a cliff. I personally blame the front office more than the coach for this decline. Rex never had the influence and control in the organization to the point he could dictate what direction the draft went in. Tanny and Idzik had the final say in our drafts. One example is that Rex didn't want Stephen Hill, but Tanny drafted him him anyway. Among Rex haters he gets the lions share of blame for a level of talent on the offense that Don Coryell couldn't have salvaged. At any rate, I think the Jets will be a much improved team this year. I hope Geno exceeds all expectations and we win the AFC east. I will get a good chuckle when the Jets start proving the the NFL how much better they are, and we start hearing from Cimini, and lots of posters here how the "discipline" and "accountability" of the new regime are paying dividends. The fact that Mr. Coffee rebuilt the roster like a phoenix from the ashes of the ruin Idzik left will be an afterthought. "discipline" and "accountability" perhaps not.
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Post by joepnyj1 on Aug 11, 2015 14:53:20 GMT -5
I heard that when reading the coverage of the practice... Jet fans are Assclowns....end of story! Booing at a PRACTICE has to be one of the dumbest things I ever heard of... Let him get the suckage out now, against our very good secondary so he won't suck during real time... Was VTN there???
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