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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Dec 14, 2014 10:51:59 GMT -5
Of course there's no way to know this especially when a new regime is likely to be in place. Of this years' top QB's, none were rushed to start from day one except Carr who found his way on day one (when Schaub got hurt and generally sucked real bad) in much the same fashion as Geno last year. Bortles was held back several games, the same with Bridgewater. Manziel a bit longer - will start this week I believe.
I don't think the trend is towards rushing them in for opening game. I'd bet against it.
I wish i shared yours, and others optimism, but i don't. this is new york, the antithesis to patience. we're not transitioning from Vinny to Penny, we're without a NFL starting caliber QB. This is not a situation analgous to Eli/Kurt, or Brett and Aaron. That's ridiculous. This team drafts Mariota, he's your starter. End of story... and i don't want that. I'm tired of going on the same rookie-rollercoaster. So yes Sec101, i would rather do the veteran retread route. I'd rather draft a rookie in the 2nd/3/4th and have ZERO pressure to start that guy for at least a full year. maybe 2. Bortles was rushed in, and he looks like shit. No thanks. Seems like it's okay to start a rookie QB now just because 'everyone's doing it'. Doesn't make it any easier on the rookie. The game hasn't been simplified has it. It just churns and spits them out faster.
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 14, 2014 12:53:51 GMT -5
Of course there's no way to know this especially when a new regime is likely to be in place. Of this years' top QB's, none were rushed to start from day one except Carr who found his way on day one (when Schaub got hurt and generally sucked real bad) in much the same fashion as Geno last year. Bortles was held back several games, the same with Bridgewater. Manziel a bit longer - will start this week I believe.
I don't think the trend is towards rushing them in for opening game. I'd bet against it.
I wish i shared yours, and others optimism, but i don't. this is new york, the antithesis to patience. we're not transitioning from Vinny to Penny, we're without a NFL starting caliber QB. This is not a situation analgous to Eli/Kurt, or Brett and Aaron. That's ridiculous. This team drafts Mariota, he's your starter. End of story... and i don't want that. I'm tired of going on the same rookie-rollercoaster. So yes Sec101, i would rather do the veteran retread route. I'd rather draft a rookie in the 2nd/3/4th and have ZERO pressure to start that guy for at least a full year. maybe 2. Bortles was rushed in, and he looks like shit. No thanks. BS. NY has nothing to do with swaying a new HC and/or GM's decision. While you can believe anything you want, you haven't swayed me one iota. It's not the trend (as I showed above) and should be reverse of the disasters we've seen here for the Jets. For what ungodly reason would someone continue this grease-fire result? You're not making a case, just using dramatic words.
You draft a 2nd-3rd day QB, you'll get the equivalent in talent. This is a QB-driven league. You can get lucky down there but that's the exception, not the rule. And for the Jets to reverse this bad trend of QB's, it's not the time to play low percentage and go dumpster diving. Not if I'm the new GM.
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Post by gangrene on Dec 14, 2014 14:08:30 GMT -5
I wish i shared yours, and others optimism, but i don't. this is new york, the antithesis to patience. we're not transitioning from Vinny to Penny, we're without a NFL starting caliber QB. This is not a situation analgous to Eli/Kurt, or Brett and Aaron. That's ridiculous. This team drafts Mariota, he's your starter. End of story... and i don't want that. I'm tired of going on the same rookie-rollercoaster. So yes Sec101, i would rather do the veteran retread route. I'd rather draft a rookie in the 2nd/3/4th and have ZERO pressure to start that guy for at least a full year. maybe 2. Bortles was rushed in, and he looks like shit. No thanks.
You draft a 2nd-3rd day QB, you'll get the equivalent in talent. This is a QB-driven league. You can get lucky down there but that's the exception, not the rule. And for the Jets to reverse this bad trend of QB's, it's not the time to play low percentage and go dumpster diving. Not if I'm the new GM.
I kind of agree on, the Russel Wilsons and the Sparkleponies of this world are rare finds in the lower rounds. About seven quarterbacks have what I consider elite talent than can carry a team with talent and have them in the playoff conversation most years. About fifteen of the leagues starting quarterbacks have the talent to take a talented balanced, well coached team and lucky team to the super bowl. Wilson and Brady are the only exceptions of those fifteen qbs. I don't like those odds much. Pick a developmental qb in the lower rounds ... sure. If you are picking top ten in the draft and you needs a qb as badly as the Jets do, you have consider both Mariota and Winston very carefully. Every draft pick is a risk, many fail but you have to be brave in a qb driven league. The chances of a mediocre qb combined with a great OL and a great defense winning the Super Bowl are much smaller than they were twenty years ago. Possible but with todays rules less likely. Just like picking a super bowl winning qb in the fifth round ... possible but the sparkleponies are NFL unicorns.
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Post by Paradis on Dec 15, 2014 9:23:09 GMT -5
You draft a 2nd-3rd day QB, you'll get the equivalent in talent. This is a QB-driven league. You can get lucky down there but that's the exception, not the rule. And for the Jets to reverse this bad trend of QB's, it's not the time to play low percentage and go dumpster diving. Not if I'm the new GM.
I kind of agree on, the Russel Wilsons and the Sparkleponies of this world are rare finds in the lower rounds. About seven quarterbacks have what I consider elite talent than can carry a team with talent and have them in the playoff conversation most years. About fifteen of the leagues starting quarterbacks have the talent to take a talented balanced, well coached team and lucky team to the super bowl. Wilson and Brady are the only exceptions of those fifteen qbs. I don't like those odds much. Pick a developmental qb in the lower rounds ... sure. If you are picking top ten in the draft and you needs a qb as badly as the Jets do, you have consider both Mariota and Winston very carefully. Every draft pick is a risk, many fail but you have to be brave in a qb driven league. The chances of a mediocre qb combined with a great OL and a great defense winning the Super Bowl are much smaller than they were twenty years ago. Possible but with todays rules less likely. Just like picking a super bowl winning qb in the fifth round ... possible but the sparkleponies are NFL unicorns. I have considered Winston and mariota. And to you and Flash Gordon whos convinced you take a Qb no matter what, I saw no. No thanks. Neither is manning or luck caliber. Not even stafford worthy. Both would need some major bench time and neither would see it. Bavaria is talking exceptions to the rule, man these days exceptions are 1st qbs that work out. Gabbert, ponder, locker, Sanchez, Manuel, even rg3 sucks. They all suck. This is the argument that I opened with so we're doing circles. I leave it at that. Ain't worth "a shot". Has to be better that than that.
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Post by gangrene on Dec 15, 2014 11:05:26 GMT -5
I kind of agree on, the Russel Wilsons and the Sparkleponies of this world are rare finds in the lower rounds. About seven quarterbacks have what I consider elite talent than can carry a team with talent and have them in the playoff conversation most years. About fifteen of the leagues starting quarterbacks have the talent to take a talented balanced, well coached team and lucky team to the super bowl. Wilson and Brady are the only exceptions of those fifteen qbs. I don't like those odds much. Pick a developmental qb in the lower rounds ... sure. If you are picking top ten in the draft and you needs a qb as badly as the Jets do, you have consider both Mariota and Winston very carefully. Every draft pick is a risk, many fail but you have to be brave in a qb driven league. The chances of a mediocre qb combined with a great OL and a great defense winning the Super Bowl are much smaller than they were twenty years ago. Possible but with todays rules less likely. Just like picking a super bowl winning qb in the fifth round ... possible but the sparkleponies are NFL unicorns. I have considered Winston and mariota. And to you and Flash Gordon whos convinced you take a Qb no matter what, I saw no. No thanks. Neither is manning or luck caliber. Not even stafford worthy. Both would need some major bench time and neither would see it. Bavaria is talking exceptions to the rule, man these days exceptions are 1st qbs that work out. Gabbert, ponder, locker, Sanchez, Manuel, even rg3 sucks. They all suck. This is the argument that I opened with so we're doing circles. I leave it at that. Ain't worth "a shot". Has to be better that than that. Ultimately it depends on how these two perform in draft evaluations and interviews. Then it is up to the scouting department to make the evaluation. I am not saying draft one of them "no matter what". What I am saying is the possibility has to be explored. The Jets are a conservative organization under Idzik's reign with a track record on early scouting that has shown poor results so far. I am not hopeful of the right decisions being made.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 15, 2014 11:11:07 GMT -5
Is Steve Deberg available?
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Post by USAFJetFan on Dec 15, 2014 11:21:22 GMT -5
Best scenario at this point is draft Cooper with our first pick and hope Winston/Mariota fall to the end of the first round and we trade up to get them. There is always a QB that drops in the draft.(Geno) If not get a project in the later rounds. Spend the cap space on Oline. And make sure we get a coach that knows how to develop QBs.
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pcola
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by pcola on Dec 15, 2014 11:29:33 GMT -5
Is Steve Deberg available? Hell, they Charlie Whitehurst was playing yesterday, I would be all for bringing him in. Then I remembered it was against the vaunted Rex Ryan defense.
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pcola
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by pcola on Dec 15, 2014 11:39:30 GMT -5
Best scenario at this point is draft Cooper with our first pick and hope Winston/Mariota fall to the end of the first round and we trade up to get them. There is always a QB that drops in the draft.(Geno) If not get a project in the later rounds. Spend the cap space on Oline. And make sure we get a coach that knows how to develop QBs. Mariota is going #1. There is absolutely no doubt about it. This isn't RGIII, Johnny Football, or the like. Winston is a POS and regardless of where he goes, he does not have the makeup to succeed in NY. Geno fell in the draft because most scouts saw him as a 1 read QB. We took him when we did basically out of desperation. We just need to face it that Geno is the Jets QB in 2015 with no other solution any where close. Maybe the organization can swallow it's pride and convince Sanchez to come back.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Dec 15, 2014 12:17:13 GMT -5
Well according to Tony Dungy, Mariota is the next Aaron Rodgers
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Post by HawkeyeJet on Dec 17, 2014 10:25:38 GMT -5
Chase Daniel is a dark horse contender for me. He's been in the league for awhile now, has been behind Brees and Alex Smith with Sean Peyton and Andy Reid. If you are on the pine learning for 5 seasons, those are pretty good folks to learn from. He has only played extensively in a game once in his career, last year, and he looked decent.
He is short, but accurate and smart. Doesn't have a huge arm, but not end of career Pennington either.
He definitely intrigues me, but part of that may be the unknown coming into play.
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Post by joepnyj1 on Dec 17, 2014 13:08:13 GMT -5
Chase Daniel is a dark horse contender for me. He's been in the league for awhile now, has been behind Brees and Alex Smith with Sean Peyton and Andy Reid. If you are on the pine learning for 5 seasons, those are pretty good folks to learn from. He has only played extensively in a game once in his career, last year, and he looked decent. He is short, but accurate and smart. Doesn't have a huge arm, but not end of career Pennington either. He definitely intrigues me, but part of that may be the unknown coming into play. Wooooo! Wooooo! I love the Naitch! lol Anyway that is an interesting guy, Daniel has been with the best and he might surprise. How about Derek Anderson? He had a pretty decent game too. He is pretty much the polar opposite to Daniel, but he is a veteran that can make all the throws.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 23, 2014 9:40:28 GMT -5
Chase Daniel is a dark horse contender for me. He's been in the league for awhile now, has been behind Brees and Alex Smith with Sean Peyton and Andy Reid. If you are on the pine learning for 5 seasons, those are pretty good folks to learn from. He has only played extensively in a game once in his career, last year, and he looked decent. He is short, but accurate and smart. Doesn't have a huge arm, but not end of career Pennington either. He definitely intrigues me, but part of that may be the unknown coming into play. Wooooo! Wooooo! I love the Naitch! lol Anyway that is an interesting guy, Daniel has been with the best and he might surprise. How about Derek Anderson? He had a pretty decent game too. He is pretty much the polar opposite to Daniel, but he is a veteran that can make all the throws. I've been interested in Chase Daniel for a couple of years now. He is a good dark horse candidate to be a decent NFL QB. I think he is both smart and accurate.
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 23, 2014 10:11:15 GMT -5
Best scenario at this point is draft Cooper with our first pick and hope Winston/Mariota fall to the end of the first round and we trade up to get them. There is always a QB that drops in the draft.(Geno) If not get a project in the later rounds. Spend the cap space on Oline. And make sure we get a coach that knows how to develop QBs. Not this year. The law of supply and demand will dictate that this doesn't happen. Neither is falling out of the top 5. There are no other QB's this draft.
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Post by Touchable on Dec 23, 2014 10:58:06 GMT -5
Chase Daniel is a dark horse contender for me. He's been in the league for awhile now, has been behind Brees and Alex Smith with Sean Peyton and Andy Reid. If you are on the pine learning for 5 seasons, those are pretty good folks to learn from. He has only played extensively in a game once in his career, last year, and he looked decent. He is short, but accurate and smart. Doesn't have a huge arm, but not end of career Pennington either. He definitely intrigues me, but part of that may be the unknown coming into play. Didn't Idzik try to bring in Daniel last year before he decided to sign with the Chiefs? EDIT: Yep, from 2013 www.ganggreennation.com/2013/3/12/4094572/nfl-free-agency-2013-jets-interested-in-chase-danielManish Mehta says the Jets might be interested in signing Saints backup quarterback Chase Daniel.
Jets QB competition may be getting more interesting. I'm told the Jets are expected to pursue Chase Daniel. #nyj
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