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Post by DDNYjets on Feb 16, 2016 8:43:06 GMT -5
The rancor just seems worse bc of the 24 hours news cycle and social media. Every little barb they throw is a headline now. Reagan had fierce opposition, so did Clinton and Bush. But they were able to get deals done.
The problem now is there too many debate team champs in legislature and they all have bloated egos. And it starts at the very top. We need to rid ourselves of the ivy leaguers and career politicians and start electing people that have actually served this country. People that know how to work with other people. Its only going to get worse and worse bc each generation is more selfish and self-centered than the last.
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Post by Trades on Feb 16, 2016 8:51:17 GMT -5
The rancor just seems worse bc of the 24 hours news cycle and social media. Every little barb they throw is a headline now. Reagan had fierce opposition, so did Clinton and Bush. But they were able to get deals done. The problem now is there too many debate team champs in legislature and they all have bloated egos. And it starts at the very top. We need to rid ourselves of the ivy leaguers and career politicians and start electing people that have actually served this country. People that know how to work with other people. Its only going to get worse and worse bc each generation is more selfish and self-centered than the last. Wrong. This is the way it has always been. That is the point of our system. Read through history. Our political system has always been nasty and adversarial. Part of the human condition is to think that we live in the worst of times. I will see if I can find the article but in essence it is because we are an ego-centric people who want to think it is all about us.
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Post by Trades on Feb 16, 2016 8:58:27 GMT -5
You can be adversarial and polite. They are not mutually exclusive. The rancor is not productive. Unless you are a special interest that uses it to fund drive. Why is it so important to be polite? We are a society of pusises as it is. Everyone gets a trophy, everyone is entitled. I think people need to hear hard truths. And what is "productive" to one person is a waste to another. We need to stop thinking government is the solution to all problems when they can't even get the basics right.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Feb 16, 2016 9:16:23 GMT -5
You can be adversarial and polite. They are not mutually exclusive. The rancor is not productive. Unless you are a special interest that uses it to fund drive. Why is it so important to be polite? We are a society of pusises as it is. Everyone gets a trophy, everyone is entitled. I think people need to hear hard truths. And what is "productive" to one person is a waste to another. We need to stop thinking government is the solution to all problems when they can't even get the basics right. Why is it important to be polite? Seriously? Since you are a small government conservative, I know that we would agree on a lot. But, when I encounter people with different views I love to engage them in intelligent conversations about their fundamental politics i.e. the reasons they believe what they believe. We often find that we share a lot in common, but differ on the path to get us there. The problem is no one will stop yelling at each other long enough to have that conversation and everyone believes their way is the only way. I loved Ronald Reagan and believe he was by far the most consequential president of my lifetime and perhaps the past 70 years or so. Reagan had a very cordial relationship with Tip O'neil, and together they got things done.
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Post by Trades on Feb 16, 2016 9:23:19 GMT -5
Why is it so important to be polite? We are a society of pusises as it is. Everyone gets a trophy, everyone is entitled. I think people need to hear hard truths. And what is "productive" to one person is a waste to another. We need to stop thinking government is the solution to all problems when they can't even get the basics right. Why is it important to be polite? Seriously? Since you are a small government conservative, I know that we would agree on a lot. But, when I encounter people with different views I love to engage them in intelligent conversations about their fundamental politics i.e. the reasons they believe what they believe. We often find that we share a lot in common, but differ on the path to get us there. The problem is no one will stop yelling at each other long enough to have that conversation and everyone believes their way is the only way. I loved Ronald Reagan and believe he was by far the most consequential president of my lifetime and perhaps the past 70 years or so. Reagan had a very cordial relationship with Tip O'neil, and together they got things done. I will agree that shouting matches are annoying but I think there is a time and place. I see always trying to be polite as a path to getting run over. It works in some situations. As you see on here, I am polite because I consider you guys friends. However, there are times when it is much more expedient to be blunt, especially when polite is mistaken for being a push over.
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Post by DDNYjets on Feb 16, 2016 9:44:24 GMT -5
The rancor just seems worse bc of the 24 hours news cycle and social media. Every little barb they throw is a headline now. Reagan had fierce opposition, so did Clinton and Bush. But they were able to get deals done. The problem now is there too many debate team champs in legislature and they all have bloated egos. And it starts at the very top. We need to rid ourselves of the ivy leaguers and career politicians and start electing people that have actually served this country. People that know how to work with other people. Its only going to get worse and worse bc each generation is more selfish and self-centered than the last. Wrong. This is the way it has always been. That is the point of our system. Read through history. Our political system has always been nasty and adversarial. Part of the human condition is to think that we live in the worst of times. I will see if I can find the article but in essence it is because we are an ego-centric people who want to think it is all about us. Agree to disagree. My generation couldn't have fought WWII. And neither could have today's politicians. Humans have always been greedy and filled with self-interest, there is no argument. That is a human condition. But in my opinion it is getting worse. And dont confuse me with the people being critical of Congress not passing laws. I dont care how many laws they pass, that is not how I judge their work. I think stalemate or "gridlock" is fine in legislature. We have too many laws and we cant even enforce the ones we already have properly.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Feb 16, 2016 9:46:27 GMT -5
Why is it important to be polite? Seriously? Since you are a small government conservative, I know that we would agree on a lot. But, when I encounter people with different views I love to engage them in intelligent conversations about their fundamental politics i.e. the reasons they believe what they believe. We often find that we share a lot in common, but differ on the path to get us there. The problem is no one will stop yelling at each other long enough to have that conversation and everyone believes their way is the only way. I loved Ronald Reagan and believe he was by far the most consequential president of my lifetime and perhaps the past 70 years or so. Reagan had a very cordial relationship with Tip O'neil, and together they got things done. I will agree that shouting matches are annoying but I think there is a time and place. I see always trying to be polite as a path to getting run over. It works in some situations. As you see on here, I am polite because I consider you guys friends. However, there are times when it is much more expedient to be blunt, especially when polite is mistaken for being a push over. Right, you pick your spots. But, in politics every fucking battle is the Alamo, because there is at least one special interest group that thinks the matter at issue is do or die no matter how trivial it may seem. You can't even mention a gun law without the NRA saying it is the end of the 2d Amendment. Shit, they even started fundraising off Scalia's death (as did the DNC). Special interest groups/lobbyist run the government. They donate the money, write the bills, and tell the pols what positions they should take.
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Post by freestater on Feb 24, 2016 9:33:54 GMT -5
Why should they start getting along? The system is supposed to be adversarial so that only the MOST important things become law. The worst thing possible is that these tools start passing more and more laws to confuse and confound the populace. SMALL government is what we need. Oh. My. Gawd. Soooooo many people misunderstand this. The single best thing the People got going for them IS gridlock. When those braying jackasses are holding each other in check, the less harm they do to US.
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