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Post by Paradis on Apr 15, 2017 17:27:44 GMT -5
I still love you. So what are you CB rankings as of today? I'm honestly overhauling them right now. I'll have an answer later tonight/tomorrow. I still think this is a strong CB class, but the top guys look like 1Bs, and then a ton of #2 CBs and guys that will make great nickels. totally feel you. A really scattered group of talented - if not incomplete - prospects
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Apr 16, 2017 9:52:14 GMT -5
So what are you CB rankings as of today? 1) Marshon Lattimore - Fluid hips, sticks with WRs down the field, great make up speed. He's also above avg in press coverage, and is one of the few CBs that tries to tackle and wrap up. 2) Sidney Jones (pre injury) - Everything you want in a CB except for his frame. He's agressive and excels in press and zone coverage. He's a willing tackler and can lay the wood sometimes. Occasionally gets bodied by bigger WRs. 3) Tre'Davious White - Great insticts and can do it all. Not the most phsyical, but uses his smarts and patiences to mirror WRs. Really solid in everything. 4) Gareon Conley - Basically the same as White, but a little bit stiffer when trying to mirror WRs 5) Sidney Jones 6) Marlon Humphrey - Extremely raw, but has great size. He's well rounded and can excel in any scheme, but he's inconsistent with his technique and lacks patience. This spot is based on potential really. 7) Ahkello Witherspoon - Great size and speed. Probably the best cover corner in the draft. He's also a PD machine. I just wish he turned a few more of them into INTs. The one really bad thing is he's super soft against the run. He'll try to make the tackle if the player comes to him, but it's usually a soft shoulder which is broken easily. 8) Howard Wilson - Great size, but needs to put on a little weight. He played mostly off coverage at Houston, but showed the ability to press when asked. Great at planting his foot and making a break on the ball. He's a turnover machine and avgeraged one INT every 15 throws at him. 9) Kevin King - Elite size, and athletism. Inconsistent with his hands while pressing which can lead to him getting beat. Hips are a little stiff and gets him in trouble when the press fails him. Despite having great speed he's susceptiable to getting beat deep and gets a little grabby. He would excel in a zone defense like Seattle's. 10) Corn Edler - If he was 2 inches taller and a few pounds heavier he would be looked at as a top 5 CB in this draft. He's tough, tackles well, and can blitz. He's good in press and can play man or zone defense. However, he'll probably have to slide inside and play nickel at the next level, but I think you can use him outside sometimes. 11) Quincy Wilson - Great size, and speed. He's got elite tools, but hasn't put it all together. His footwork at times is sloppy and it's made worse by his stiff hips. Decent in press, but grabs at WR. Also for someone his size he's incredibly weak in the run game. Doesn't fight to get off blocks or chase the ball down. 12) Damontae Kazee - Small, but hits like a truck. Strictly a nickel or dime corner at the next level. Has quick feet and good insticts which helps him make a ton of plays on the ball. 13) Adoree Jackson - Ok size, and uber athlete. As a corner he's extremely raw and used his athletism to get by. Can be a little over agressive trying to make a play on the ball which gets him in trouble. 14) Jourdan Lewis - Ok size. Good in press or zone. Lacks deep speed and tends to grab a lot when beat. WRs can go over the top of him due to his size, and mediocre vert. 15) Rasul Douglas - Great size. Can press, but excels in zone. Technique is a little sloppy, but has the ability to make plays when the balls in the air. 16) Cordea Tankersley - Everything you look for in a CB, but probably the most frustrating to watch. He excels at everything, but is extremely inconsistent. 17) Cameron Sutton - Great in zone coverage, but not physical. Slight frame so I worry about him getting injured again. Doesn't try to get off blocks, and has taken himself out of the play when run at. 18) Fabian Moreau - Great size and speed, but looks like Kyle Burnt Toast Wilson. He'll have good coverage, but doesn't turn his head around, and rarely makes a play on the ball. The only thing missing is the douchey finger wag. 19) Chidobe Awuzie - Mediocre at everything. I don't see anything special. There are others but I need to watch more of them.
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Post by Paradis on Apr 16, 2017 21:49:12 GMT -5
So what are you CB rankings as of today? 1) Marshon Lattimore - Fluid hips, sticks with WRs down the field, great make up speed. He's also above avg in press coverage, and is one of the few CBs that tries to tackle and wrap up. 2) Sidney Jones (pre injury) - Everything you want in a CB except for his frame. He's agressive and excels in press and zone coverage. He's a willing tackler and can lay the wood sometimes. Occasionally gets bodied by bigger WRs. 3) Tre'Davious White - Great insticts and can do it all. Not the most phsyical, but uses his smarts and patiences to mirror WRs. Really solid in everything. 4) Gareon Conley - Basically the same as White, but a little bit stiffer when trying to mirror WRs 5) Sidney Jones 6) Marlon Humphrey - Extremely raw, but has great size. He's well rounded and can excel in any scheme, but he's inconsistent with his technique and lacks patience. This spot is based on potential really. 7) Ahkello Witherspoon - Great size and speed. Probably the best cover corner in the draft. He's also a PD machine. I just wish he turned a few more of them into INTs. The one really bad thing is he's super soft against the run. He'll try to make the tackle if the player comes to him, but it's usually a soft shoulder which is broken easily. 8) Howard Wilson - Great size, but needs to put on a little weight. He played mostly off coverage at Houston, but showed the ability to press when asked. Great at planting his foot and making a break on the ball. He's a turnover machine and avgeraged one INT every 15 throws at him. 9) Kevin King - Elite size, and athletism. Inconsistent with his hands while pressing which can lead to him getting beat. Hips are a little stiff and gets him in trouble when the press fails him. Despite having great speed he's susceptiable to getting beat deep and gets a little grabby. He would excel in a zone defense like Seattle's. 10) Corn Edler - If he was 2 inches taller and a few pounds heavier he would be looked at as a top 5 CB in this draft. He's tough, tackles well, and can blitz. He's good in press and can play man or zone defense. However, he'll probably have to slide inside and play nickel at the next level, but I think you can use him outside sometimes. 11) Quincy Wilson - Great size, and speed. He's got elite tools, but hasn't put it all together. His footwork at times is sloppy and it's made worse by his stiff hips. Decent in press, but grabs at WR. Also for someone his size he's incredibly weak in the run game. Doesn't fight to get off blocks or chase the ball down. 12) Damontae Kazee - Small, but hits like a truck. Strictly a nickel or dime corner at the next level. Has quick feet and good insticts which helps him make a ton of plays on the ball. 13) Adoree Jackson - Ok size, and uber athlete. As a corner he's extremely raw and used his athletism to get by. Can be a little over agressive trying to make a play on the ball which gets him in trouble. 14) Jourdan Lewis - Ok size. Good in press or zone. Lacks deep speed and tends to grab a lot when beat. WRs can go over the top of him due to his size, and mediocre vert. 15) Rasul Douglas - Great size. Can press, but excels in zone. Technique is a little sloppy, but has the ability to make plays when the balls in the air. 16) Cordea Tankersley - Everything you look for in a CB, but probably the most frustrating to watch. He excels at everything, but is extremely inconsistent. 17) Cameron Sutton - Great in zone coverage, but not physical. Slight frame so I worry about him getting injured again. Doesn't try to get off blocks, and has taken himself out of the play when run at. 18) Fabian Moreau - Great size and speed, but looks like Kyle Burnt Toast Wilson. He'll have good coverage, but doesn't turn his head around, and rarely makes a play on the ball. The only thing missing is the douchey finger wag. 19) Chidobe Awuzie - Mediocre at everything. I don't see anything special. There are others but I need to watch more of them. Been waiting all day to get home and talk about this... I got no problem with 85% of your rankings, despite not agreeing with all of them... But the flavor of the week is Jackson... and you have him #14... which is bananas. How? I think I people are getting on him about scheme-based deficiencies. What is missing in his game? He can tackle as good as any corner in the draft, period. He plays to the whistle, gets off blocks, shows instinct and awareness, is natural playmaker and ball hawk... he plays press well, and knows where his zone is. Doesn't get turned around or lost... I don't see the gaps. In contrast, I see more lapses in a guy like Tre White. Lots of good tape, but occasionally, he's just flat out late and out of position. Even if sometimes (being generous) Adoree gets caught over top, that's better than being caught out of position.
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Apr 16, 2017 21:56:45 GMT -5
Been waiting all day to get home and talk about this... I got no problem with 85% of your rankings, despite not agreeing with all of them... But the flavor of the week is Jackson... and you have him #14... which is bananas. How? I think I people are getting on him about scheme-based deficiencies. What is missing in his game? He can tackle as good as any corner in the draft, period. He plays to the whistle, gets off blocks, shows instinct and awareness, is natural playmaker and ball hawk... he plays press well, and knows where his zone is. Doesn't get turned around or lost... I don't see the gaps. In contrast, I see more lapses in a guy like Tre White. Lots of good tape, but occasionally, he's just flat out late and out of position. Even if sometimes (being generous) Adoree gets caught over top, that's better than being caught out of position. Adoree's ceiling is high, but I think his frame limits him. Personaly I don't see the instincts. I think he's just an athlete that's playing CB. He's not physical and will get bodied by bigger WRs. To me he's all flash and no substance right now. He makes plays, but gives up a bunch because he's not patient in his technique. Honestly why is he better than Corn Edler? They're basically the same size, but Edler, is more physical, a better tackler, has more experience, can play zone or press well. He's also a leader, and can blitz. Jackson is propped up on his return ability, but I think his upside as a corner is a less physical Edler.
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Post by Paradis on Apr 16, 2017 22:22:31 GMT -5
Been waiting all day to get home and talk about this... I got no problem with 85% of your rankings, despite not agreeing with all of them... But the flavor of the week is Jackson... and you have him #14... which is bananas. How? I think I people are getting on him about scheme-based deficiencies. What is missing in his game? He can tackle as good as any corner in the draft, period. He plays to the whistle, gets off blocks, shows instinct and awareness, is natural playmaker and ball hawk... he plays press well, and knows where his zone is. Doesn't get turned around or lost... I don't see the gaps. In contrast, I see more lapses in a guy like Tre White. Lots of good tape, but occasionally, he's just flat out late and out of position. Even if sometimes (being generous) Adoree gets caught over top, that's better than being caught out of position. Adoree's ceiling is high, but I think his frame limits him. Personaly I don't see the instincts. I think he's just an athlete that's playing CB. He's not physical and will get bodied by bigger WRs. To me he's all flash and no substance right now. He makes plays, but gives up a bunch because he's not patient in his technique. Honestly why is he better than Corn Edler? They're basically the same size, but Edler, is more physical, a better tackler, has more experience, can play zone or press well. He's also a leader, and can blitz. Jackson is propped up on his return ability, but I think his upside as a corner is a less physical Edler. Doesn't sound like the same guy I'm watching Lets look at bama -- ridley has what, 2 catches? He saves 2 tds, and plays his side of the field with awareness. Here vs Stanford... Too many plays to count. He sticks on his man as good as Lattimore on a number plays here -- and gets on McCaffrey multiple times Where are these "big plays" he gives up? I don't see them. And here... left alone against John Ross... all he did was make plays. Am I gonna give him a hard time for a giving a guy with 4.22 speed a cushion to catch underneath? Not me... he fell and let a TD which is unfortunate, but i can paste a video of Lattimore doing the exact same thing, tripping and giving up a TD. I'm trying to see what you're seeing, but it's lost on me thus far.
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Post by Paradis on Apr 16, 2017 22:25:36 GMT -5
^^ I posted bama, stanford and washington... not sure why they didnt work.
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Post by Paradis on Apr 16, 2017 22:38:03 GMT -5
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Apr 16, 2017 22:39:25 GMT -5
Doesn't sound like the same guy I'm watching Lets look at bama -- ridley has what, 2 catches? He saves 2 tds, and plays his side of the field with awareness. Too many plays to count. He sticks on his man as good as Lattimore on a number plays here -- and gets on McCaffrey multiple times Where are these "big plays" he gives up? I don't see them. And here... left alone against John Ross... all he did was make plays. Am I gonna give him a hard time for a giving a guy with 4.22 speed a cushion to catch underneath? Not me... he fell and let a TD which is unfortunate, but i can paste a video of Lattimore doing the exact same thing, tripping and giving up a TD. I'm trying to see what you're seeing, but it's lost on me thus far. I think USC uses him in zone because he lack instincts and it allows him to make plays on the ball. His upside is good, but he's raw and lacking in size. That's why I dropped him in the rankings. I don't think he's proved himself yet, and even if he does he's a #2/3 with good return skills. Also Ahkello Witherspoon played Ross better. I don't fault Jackson for playing off coverage on Ross, because almost every DB did, but the TD he gave up was a terrible read. He bit super hard.
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Apr 16, 2017 22:40:57 GMT -5
As good as it gets? He was lined up in the slot and never turned his head. He just ran in a straight line and put his hands up. That was a Kyle Burnt Toast Wilson special.
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Post by Paradis on Apr 16, 2017 22:58:22 GMT -5
As good as it gets? He was lined up in the slot and never turned his head. He just ran in a straight line and put his hands up. That was a Kyle Burnt Toast Wilson special. lol don't you dare curse him with that name! so when he's in zone, its to hide his deficencies, and when he's in man, he's burnt toast? He made the right play. No one gets the head around every time. Revis was relied on playing the man, not the ball his whole career I think. Lattimore does the same thing on that route. It was a straight vertical.
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Post by Paradis on Apr 16, 2017 23:00:37 GMT -5
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Apr 16, 2017 23:04:38 GMT -5
As good as it gets? He was lined up in the slot and never turned his head. He just ran in a straight line and put his hands up. That was a Kyle Burnt Toast Wilson special. lol don't you dare curse him with that name! so when he's in zone, its to hide his deficencies, and when he's in man, he's burnt toast? He made the right play. No one gets the head around every time. Revis was relied on playing the man, not the ball his whole career I think. Lattimore does the same thing on that route. It was a straight vertical. I'm not saying he's Kyle Burnt Toast Wilson haha I'm just saying that play was easy as shit. He didn't jam the WR and he just ran in a straight line. If he turned his head around maybe he comes down with an INT. Fabian Moreau is Kyle Burnt Toast Wilson. Adoree has talent, but I just think he's raw. Add that in with his size and I don't see him being better than Edler. The only reason a team would take him over Elder is because of his return skills
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Post by Paradis on Apr 16, 2017 23:14:55 GMT -5
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Post by Paradis on Apr 16, 2017 23:17:41 GMT -5
I'm mostly messing with you (tho i do think when lattimore gets tested he does give up more than his rep says he does)... but he does have his moments inside that show me he's better on the perimeter than inside.
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Post by Paradis on Apr 16, 2017 23:20:51 GMT -5
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