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Post by BEAC0NJET on Jun 13, 2016 11:55:29 GMT -5
Here's a question... how does a guy that the FBI previously looked at for suspicion of terrorism pass Federal background checks to buy guns legally? Maybe we dont need MORE laws; maybe we need to do a better job implementing the ones we have in place now? This could have easily have been done with some plastic explosives, pressure cooker bomb, etc. I am pro gun but I see no "REAL" reason why AR15 can be purchased but that aside, I dont see this as a gun issue. he would have done it in a myriad of ways. This is true. He could have used other methods (although getting a pressure cooker bomb in a backpack into the middle of a club might be tough unless you also used a gun to take out security). But yes, where there's a will there's a way, whether its bombs, illegally purchased guns, etc. Now... if security had been armed, could that have made a difference? Maybe? Maybe not? Its an issue of terrorism... but the challenging part is this guy was born here, so its not a matter of not letting him IN. How do you deal with that prior to these guys acting without violating their rights? Sadly, somehow, time and time again recently, bad guys are getting guns legally by passing "background checks". I know its "innocent until proven guilty" but people have wound up on the watch list apparently for a lot less than this guy, and maybe its time to A) fix the watch list issue and B) ban those legitimately on the list from owning guns, and making sure that data comes up during the FBI check? I dunno, Im just tired of this shit.
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Jun 13, 2016 11:57:07 GMT -5
Did this nut job just walk up to the entrance and shoot his way in, or did he get by the bouncer then open fire? Great question, and I dont know if Ive seen the answer. I would have to think if he had an AR-15 he wouldn't be able to get it past security if he came in the front door?
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Post by southparkcpa on Jun 13, 2016 12:04:15 GMT -5
This could have easily have been done with some plastic explosives, pressure cooker bomb, etc. I am pro gun but I see no "REAL" reason why AR15 can be purchased but that aside, I dont see this as a gun issue. he would have done it in a myriad of ways. This is true. He could have used other methods (although getting a pressure cooker bomb in a backpack into the middle of a club might be tough unless you also used a gun to take out security). But yes, where there's a will there's a way, whether its bombs, illegally purchased guns, etc. Now... if security had been armed, could that have made a difference? Maybe? Maybe not? Its an issue of terrorism... but the challenging part is this guy was born here, so its not a matter of not letting him IN. How do you deal with that prior to these guys acting without violating their rights? Sadly, somehow, time and time again recently, bad guys are getting guns legally by passing "background checks". I know its "innocent until proven guilty" but people have wound up on the watch list apparently for a lot less than this guy, and maybe its time to A) fix the watch list issue and B) ban those legitimately on the list from owning guns, and making sure that data comes up during the FBI check? I dunno, Im just tired of this shit. I agree with all of that. I heard on CNBC today from a former ATF agent that a person can be banned from flying but that ban wont trigger him from NOT buying a gun. Crazy. Serious problem, I dont have an answer either but I am now carrying my 9MM more often than not.
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Post by 2foolish on Jun 13, 2016 12:07:07 GMT -5
This is true. He could have used other methods (although getting a pressure cooker bomb in a backpack into the middle of a club might be tough unless you also used a gun to take out security). But yes, where there's a will there's a way, whether its bombs, illegally purchased guns, etc. Now... if security had been armed, could that have made a difference? Maybe? Maybe not? Its an issue of terrorism... but the challenging part is this guy was born here, so its not a matter of not letting him IN. How do you deal with that prior to these guys acting without violating their rights? Sadly, somehow, time and time again recently, bad guys are getting guns legally by passing "background checks". I know its "innocent until proven guilty" but people have wound up on the watch list apparently for a lot less than this guy, and maybe its time to A) fix the watch list issue and B) ban those legitimately on the list from owning guns, and making sure that data comes up during the FBI check? I dunno, Im just tired of this shit. I agree with all of that. I heard on CNBC today from a former ATF agent that a person can be banned from flying but that ban wont trigger him from NOT buying a gun. Crazy. Serious problem, I dont have an answer either but I am now carrying my 9MM more often than not. sad state of affairs but i don't blame you...u look at exists signs now every where you go...especially if ur with ur kids...
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Jun 13, 2016 12:08:49 GMT -5
This could have easily have been done with some plastic explosives, pressure cooker bomb, etc. I am pro gun but I see no "REAL" reason why AR15 can be purchased but that aside, I dont see this as a gun issue. he would have done it in a myriad of ways. This is true. He could have used other methods (although getting a pressure cooker bomb in a backpack into the middle of a club might be tough unless you also used a gun to take out security). But yes, where there's a will there's a way, whether its bombs, illegally purchased guns, etc. Now... if security had been armed, could that have made a difference? Maybe? Maybe not? Its an issue of terrorism... but the challenging part is this guy was born here, so its not a matter of not letting him IN. How do you deal with that prior to these guys acting without violating their rights? Sadly, somehow, time and time again recently, bad guys are getting guns legally by passing "background checks". I know its "innocent until proven guilty" but people have wound up on the watch list apparently for a lot less than this guy, and maybe its time to A) fix the watch list issue and B) ban those legitimately on the list from owning guns, and making sure that data comes up during the FBI check? I dunno, Im just tired of this shit. Security was armed. An off duty Orlando police officer inside. And two cops responded and engaged him outside. All were loathe to harm civilians in the crossfire Yes he could have used other weapons (with great difficulty) but if he was prevented from purchasing a weapon by being on the list and then flagged he would have been on the radar , attracting attention if he subsequently tried to purchase bomb making materials. It shouldn't be that complicated!
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 13, 2016 12:09:28 GMT -5
Great, because our previous forays in the Middle East have worked out so great. This is what ISIS wants, to draw us into the Great War they've been predicting. If you start in Syria, you'll better be prepared to NEVER leave. Unless you have an exit strategy I don't know about. Imagine if people said this about Hitler whats going to be the exit strategy. The atrocities being committed call for a world response. The world wont thats fine. I know If Trump gets in him and Putin will bring Hell to that area and figure out an exit strategy if anything is left There WAS an exit strategy. Kill Hitler, leave. Times have changed. There isn't one guy.
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Post by 2foolish on Jun 13, 2016 12:16:06 GMT -5
Imagine if people said this about Hitler whats going to be the exit strategy. The atrocities being committed call for a world response. The world wont thats fine. I know If Trump gets in him and Putin will bring Hell to that area and figure out an exit strategy if anything is left There WAS an exit strategy. Kill Hitler, leave. Times have changed. There isn't one guy. we didn't leave...talking in circles again...why don't u take some time and gather ur thoughts before you post anymore...you're all over the map...
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 13, 2016 12:16:10 GMT -5
yeah that guys been all over the news last two days...this story goes back to the war in '67..muslim brotherhood stuff...and don't change the subject we can talk about the decline of pan-arabism some other time...ur walking back from ur equation of Evengelicals to ISIS... Not walking back anything. Evangelicals have introduced 200 anti-LGBT pieces of legislation this year alone. They preach the same hate.
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 13, 2016 12:18:28 GMT -5
There WAS an exit strategy. Kill Hitler, leave. Times have changed. There isn't one guy. we didn't leave...talking in circles again...why don't u take some time and gather ur thoughts before you post anymore...you're all over the map... Oh lord, your picturing a nice little Berlin in Syria? Your delusional.
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Post by southparkcpa on Jun 13, 2016 12:18:36 GMT -5
This is true. He could have used other methods (although getting a pressure cooker bomb in a backpack into the middle of a club might be tough unless you also used a gun to take out security). But yes, where there's a will there's a way, whether its bombs, illegally purchased guns, etc. Now... if security had been armed, could that have made a difference? Maybe? Maybe not? Its an issue of terrorism... but the challenging part is this guy was born here, so its not a matter of not letting him IN. How do you deal with that prior to these guys acting without violating their rights? Sadly, somehow, time and time again recently, bad guys are getting guns legally by passing "background checks". I know its "innocent until proven guilty" but people have wound up on the watch list apparently for a lot less than this guy, and maybe its time to A) fix the watch list issue and B) ban those legitimately on the list from owning guns, and making sure that data comes up during the FBI check? I dunno, Im just tired of this shit. Security was armed. An off duty Orlando police officer inside. And two cops responded and engaged him outside. All were loathe to harm civilians in the crossfire Yes he could have used other weapons (with great difficulty) but if he was prevented from purchasing a weapon by being on the list and then flagged he would have been on the radar , attracting attention if he subsequently tried to purchase bomb making materials. It shouldn't be that complicated! Bomb making materials are very simple. If bought from 2 or 3 different stores...never get caught. This is difficult to stop no matter where we fall on the issue. Wait until its a small test tube sized chemical weapon. This is scary shit.
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Post by 2foolish on Jun 13, 2016 12:19:54 GMT -5
yeah that guys been all over the news last two days...this story goes back to the war in '67..muslim brotherhood stuff...and don't change the subject we can talk about the decline of pan-arabism some other time...ur walking back from ur equation of Evengelicals to ISIS... Not walking back anything. Evangelicals have introduced 200 anti-LGBT pieces of legislation this year alone. They preach the same hate. here we go again u fucking asshole....because you have no answer for ISIS and such u blame other people who have nothing to do with this attack...like those pieces of legislation are anything close to murdering 50 people...you are a fucking troll...asshole...ur time here is about up...go troll some buffalo site...
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Post by 2foolish on Jun 13, 2016 12:20:35 GMT -5
we didn't leave...talking in circles again...why don't u take some time and gather ur thoughts before you post anymore...you're all over the map... Oh lord, your picturing a nice little Berlin in Syria? Your delusional. and ur a fucking asshole...
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 13, 2016 12:21:17 GMT -5
Not walking back anything. Evangelicals have introduced 200 anti-LGBT pieces of legislation this year alone. They preach the same hate. here we go again u fucking asshole....because you have no answer for ISIS and such u blame other people who have nothing to do with this attack...like those pieces of legislation are anything close to murdering 50 people...you are a fucking troll...asshole...ur time here is about up...go troll some buffalo site... You have real comprehension issues. Show me where I blame anyone other than the shooter.
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Post by 2foolish on Jun 13, 2016 12:23:00 GMT -5
here we go again u fucking asshole....because you have no answer for ISIS and such u blame other people who have nothing to do with this attack...like those pieces of legislation are anything close to murdering 50 people...you are a fucking troll...asshole...ur time here is about up...go troll some buffalo site... Yiu have real comprehension issues. Show me where I blame anyone other than the shooter. just the fact u bring them up...means u equate the two... u troll... get lost...moron...
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 13, 2016 12:24:12 GMT -5
Yiu have real comprehension issues. Show me where I blame anyone other than the shooter. just the fact u bring them up...means u equate the two... u troll... get lost...moron... Oh that's brilliant logic there.
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