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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 23, 2014 9:30:19 GMT -5
It seems to me that over the past few years, other than Luck and RGIII, every QB that has been labeled as a top pick in the draft inevitably drops as the experts dissect his game, physical traits, mental acumen, and/or social ties. Perhaps our chances at Winston, and even Mariotta, are pretty good at 4? Heck, I can imagine that by the time the draft arrives many might say that 4 is too early to pick them.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Dec 23, 2014 9:47:03 GMT -5
It seems to me that over the past few years, other than Luck and RGIII, every QB that has been labeled as a top pick in the draft inevitably drops as the experts dissect his game, physical traits, mental acumen, and/or social ties. Perhaps our chances at Winston, and even Mariotta, are pretty good at 4? Heck, I can imagine that by the time the draft arrives many might say that 4 is too early to pick them. Agreed, although a lot of that has to with people overvaluing the prospect to begin with and you have media types making these first pick overall declarations, not necessarily actual NFL scouts. Its entirely possible that one of the QBs makes it to the 4th pick, especially if the draft order is Tampa, Tenn, Jax, Jets. With Winston being cleared of code of conduct charges this week, I think his off field stuff is not going to be as much of a concern for teams as it might have been a year ago. |
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 23, 2014 10:13:05 GMT -5
It seems to me that over the past few years, other than Luck and RGIII, every QB that has been labeled as a top pick in the draft inevitably drops as the experts dissect his game, physical traits, mental acumen, and/or social ties. Perhaps our chances at Winston, and even Mariotta, are pretty good at 4? Heck, I can imagine that by the time the draft arrives many might say that 4 is too early to pick them. Agreed, although a lot of that has to with people overvaluing the prospect to begin with and you have media types making these first pick overall declarations, not necessarily actual NFL scouts. Its entirely possible that one of the QBs makes it to the 4th pick, especially if the draft order is Tampa, Tenn, Jax, Jets. With Winston being cleared of code of conduct charges this week, I think his off field stuff is not going to be as much of a concern for teams as it might have been a year ago. With our luck both will be available at 4 and the Jets will pick a FB from Alcorn State. |
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Post by sec.101row23 on Dec 23, 2014 10:24:50 GMT -5
Agreed, although a lot of that has to with people overvaluing the prospect to begin with and you have media types making these first pick overall declarations, not necessarily actual NFL scouts. Its entirely possible that one of the QBs makes it to the 4th pick, especially if the draft order is Tampa, Tenn, Jax, Jets. With Winston being cleared of code of conduct charges this week, I think his off field stuff is not going to be as much of a concern for teams as it might have been a year ago. With our luck both will be available at 4 and the Jets will pick a FB from Alcorn State. HaHa....well he does have upside! |
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Post by eaglenj on Dec 23, 2014 10:44:45 GMT -5
Without question, the pick in my mind for us needs to be Winston.
Stats in college are virtually useless as Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, and Geno Smith have all showed us. It is relatively easy in college to be productive while also avoiding interceptions, and that is not a skill that translates to the NFL where 90% of the throws are to covered WRs while facing some sort of pressure.
Winston is one of the few players who doesnt pad his stats with those throws. He works through his progressions, stands tall in the face of pressure, changes plays at the line, and actually forces things downfield. Now there will be multiple people on the board here who will say "forcing" throws is bad. Well it might be bad for FSU, but its not bad for his development as a pro, where throwing to spots (instead of to players) is vital and something that he is far more developed at then his competition. That has led to picks and it will lead to picks early in his pro career, but at his size and with his arm strength he should be able to easily improve, especially once he has a full offseason to work on being a QB rather then playing baseball.
Winston comes with off the field risks, and sure we could be successful with matt moore and a stud offensive lineman, but the way to have long term success in this league is to fill holes when you have cap space and find a QB who is your guy for 10 years, and Winston's off the field problems are worth that risk.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Dec 23, 2014 11:17:58 GMT -5
Without question, the pick in my mind for us needs to be Winston. Stats in college are virtually useless as Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, and Geno Smith have all showed us. It is relatively easy in college to be productive while also avoiding interceptions, and that is not a skill that translates to the NFL where 90% of the throws are to covered WRs while facing some sort of pressure. Winston is one of the few players who doesnt pad his stats with those throws. He works through his progressions, stands tall in the face of pressure, changes plays at the line, and actually forces things downfield. Now there will be multiple people on the board here who will say "forcing" throws is bad. Well it might be bad for FSU, but its not bad for his development as a pro, where throwing to spots (instead of to players) is vital and something that he is far more developed at then his competition. That has led to picks and it will lead to picks early in his pro career, but at his size and with his arm strength he should be able to easily improve, especially once he has a full offseason to work on being a QB rather then playing baseball. Winston comes with off the field risks, and sure we could be successful with matt moore and a stud offensive lineman, but the way to have long term success in this league is to fill holes when you have cap space and find a QB who is your guy for 10 years, and Winston's off the field problems are worth that risk. Great points. You are right that people tend to overreact to his INTs, when you look at these QBs that come out of college, especially the spread type QBs, they are accustomed to throwing to wide open receivers and when they get into the NFL they struggle with their decision making because they are looking for guys to get wide open. There is a massive difference between "college open" and "NFL open". Typically these QBs tend to hold onto the ball too long waiting for guys to come wide open, and thus take sacks or throw the ball late and get intercepted. Winston is very decisive, and not afraid to throw into tight windows. Plus us the point about him playing baseball is a good one, he basically goes from the Bowl game to the baseball field the very next day. He plays baseball into June, then takes 6 weeks off and is back in camp on August 1 to prepare for the next season. He hasn't really reached anywhere close to his full potential as a QB. |
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 24, 2014 14:50:49 GMT -5
Agreed on Winston. His situational awareness is a very strong suit. If he slips to 4 I will be sick if the jets do not draft him.
If Winston and Mariota are both gone at 4, I hope the Jets don't over reach for a QB in the next couple of rounds. I like taking a chance on Rakeem Cato later in the draft. There is no doubt in my mind that once the scouts meet with him and watch film, he will rise. Winston is the only QB who performs better on 3d downs and Cato is a fierce competitor and a leader. His coach has also coached Rivers, Newton, and Tebow and says Cato throws as well as Rivers and is more competitive than any of them. Plus, if you read his back story, you can not help but root for him.
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Post by AJetFanNamedAction on Dec 24, 2014 15:23:16 GMT -5
Agreed on Winston. His situational awareness is a very strong suit. If he slips to 4 I will be sick if the jets do not draft him. If Winston and Mariota are both gone at 4, I hope the Jets don't over reach for a QB in the next couple of rounds. I like taking a chance on Rakeem Cato later in the draft. There is no doubt in my mind that once the scouts meet with him and watch film, he will rise. Winston is the only QB who performs better on 3d downs and Cato is a fierce competitor and a leader. His coach has also coached Rivers, Newton, and Tebow and says Cato throws as well as Rivers and is more competitive than any of them. Plus, if you read his back story, you can not help but root for him.
I'd like to get a link to Cato's back story if you can find one. Back in the day, Marshall was always playing for the division 1-AA championship so I somehow became a Marshall fan after watching them play every year. It didn't hurt when Pennington was drafted by the Jets either.
If we get the choice between Winston and Mariota (which I think is still possible up to this point) I'm going to have to side with Winston. Mariota comes from a QB friendly offense that uses to many bubble screens and dump offs for my taste. Winston plays in an offense that shows multiple sets so he's had snaps under center and has made plays using multiple step drops which is a big deal for me. I've been told that completion percentage is not a very good stat to evaluate quarterbacks on the college level. Apparently, its all about ball placement and fitting passes into tight spaces and Winston appears to be stronger in that regard.
However, you have to take the off-field crap serious. Randy Moss had Chris Carter and Cam Newton had Steve Smith. What veteran on the Jets is going to really give him some support? I worry that the New York media will eat him alive. There are certain writers which I will not name, that make a career out of bashing Jets and their coaching staff. If Geno Smith makes that "I show Pro Bowl flashes" comment in Minnesota he's considered a ambitious. He says it in New York and all of a sudden he's considered full of himself.
So, that's my take.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 25, 2014 11:55:46 GMT -5
www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/rakeem-cato-marshall-thundering-herd-qb-liberty-city-bruce-feldman-092814The nfl scouts will love Cato. Football is not just important to him, it's his life. Great leader. Not the greatest arm strength but like Phillip Rivers always seems to have just enough and his ball placement is excellent. Uses his legs to extend passing opportunities but aso knows when to run. A fierce competitor. His coach also coached Rivers and Tebow and says that Cato is the most competitive player he has ever coached. You don't set the record for consecutive games with TD passes without having skills, especially when the talent around you is Marshall talent (no offense intended). And he won a ton of games with Marshall. The only loss this year was 67-66 in OT. It's safe to say Cato did everything he could to win that game. Even if the jets don't draft Cato, I'll be rooting for him.
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Post by tkasper01 on Dec 28, 2014 12:23:41 GMT -5
www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/rakeem-cato-marshall-thundering-herd-qb-liberty-city-bruce-feldman-092814The nfl scouts will love Cato. Football is not just important to him, it's his life. Great leader. Not the greatest arm strength but like Phillip Rivers always seems to have just enough and his ball placement is excellent. Uses his legs to extend passing opportunities but aso knows when to run. A fierce competitor. His coach also coached Rivers and Tebow and says that Cato is the most competitive player he has ever coached. You don't set the record for consecutive games with TD passes without having skills, especially when the talent around you is Marshall talent (no offense intended). And he won a ton of games with Marshall. The only loss this year was 67-66 in OT. It's safe to say Cato did everything he could to win that game. Even if the jets don't draft Cato, I'll be rooting for him. Good article. I will be as well. What a story. |
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