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Post by Paradis on Mar 8, 2017 16:12:39 GMT -5
Have not seen much sentiment for a guy like OJ Howard at 6. Whenever anyone mentions a TE, it is always with the idea of trade back and take a TE. Ideally I would love to see Macc trade back, but if he can't, why not take a guy like OJ Howard at 6. We could use another big target for whomever our QB might be and at 6'6", 250, and running a 4.5 40, he would be a matchup nightmare for any defense. A receiving group including Howard, Enunwa, Decker and Anderson would look pretty good next season. No significant injury history, no off field problems that I am aware of. OJ Howard at 6.  I'm not crazy about Howard at 6.... I know, right? Why? Better use of the pick. Fournette/Williams/Davis/Cook are all better options. Howard is a supreme target, but he's not that much better than the other guys. A bump for blocking, but i'm drafting a TE at 6 because he's a better blocker than Engram. I spent time watching Howard--Njoku--Everett--Engram, and even Sprinkle--Hodges etc... The margin of difference isn't that significant. Some of them test better, but the tape shows all of them making plays and looking pros. The difference between Fournette--Cook and guys like Kamara, Foreman, is HUGE. Atlantic ocean size. Same with Williams--Davis vs Duvall, or even Ross... in fact, the gap is pacific. Fournette Williams Davis Cook Howard I don't think we get far down the list @6. |
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Post by ruby2 on Mar 8, 2017 16:23:05 GMT -5
Haha the year you get people on board with a high TE pick is the year Para doesnt like it, lmao
All jokes aside Para any concern with Fournette weighing in at 240 and Cook, and Williams disappointing athletic results?
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Post by Lithfan on Mar 8, 2017 16:44:39 GMT -5
I'm not crazy about Howard at 6.... I know, right? Why? Better use of the pick. Fournette/Williams/Davis/Cook are all better options. Howard is a supreme target, but he's not that much better than the other guys. A bump for blocking, but i'm drafting a TE at 6 because he's a better blocker than Engram. I spent time watching Howard--Njoku--Everett--Engram, and even Sprinkle--Hodges etc... The margin of difference isn't that significant. Some of them test better, but the tape shows all of them making plays and looking pros. The difference between Fournette--Cook and guys like Kamara, Foreman, is HUGE. Atlantic ocean size. Same with Williams--Davis vs Duvall, or even Ross... in fact, the gap is pacific. Fournette Williams Davis Cook Howard I don't think we get far down the list @6. Thats about the last reaction I would have expected from you. If you think the other 4 guys are better prospects and will be better pros than Howard, so be it. I may not agree, but I get that we will differ on certain prospects. The part of your argument that I don't buy into the "he is not that much better than..." argument. That is how you miss out on the position altogether. You never know who is going to be gone before your next pick and who might drop. |
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Post by Paradis on Mar 8, 2017 16:54:17 GMT -5
I'm not crazy about Howard at 6.... I know, right? Why? Better use of the pick. Fournette/Williams/Davis/Cook are all better options. Howard is a supreme target, but he's not that much better than the other guys. A bump for blocking, but i'm drafting a TE at 6 because he's a better blocker than Engram. I spent time watching Howard--Njoku--Everett--Engram, and even Sprinkle--Hodges etc... The margin of difference isn't that significant. Some of them test better, but the tape shows all of them making plays and looking pros. The difference between Fournette--Cook and guys like Kamara, Foreman, is HUGE. Atlantic ocean size. Same with Williams--Davis vs Duvall, or even Ross... in fact, the gap is pacific. Fournette Williams Davis Cook Howard I don't think we get far down the list @6. Thats about the last reaction I would have expected from you. If you think the other 4 guys are better prospects and will be better pros than Howard, so be it. I may not agree, but I get that we will differ on certain prospects. The part of your argument that I don't buy into the "he is not that much better than..." argument. That is how you miss out on the position altogether. You never know who is going to be gone before your next pick and who might drop. I'm very much a Howard supporter. I would probably draft 2 TEs this year if I was in charge. But again, there's 2 problems with @6... he's not a better prospect than Fournette/Williams/Davis.. Cook has character concerns, so that's a subjective thing. If those 3 guys were gone, and we took Howard, I'd be all about it. He's a safe top 10 prospect... but can you imagine passing on Fournette for Howard? the other problem is that i haven't seen enough from OJ's film to say he's that much better than say - Njoku. Everett and Engram play joker roles, so you could argue that Howard offers more versatility -- but ultimately -- Kiffin's misuse of OJ leaves questions behind. Howard has made big plays, but he also was a complete non-factor for weeks, months even at a time. So... i dunno. I'm pumping the brakes a little on OJ over someone like Corey Davis is clearly NFL material, tailor made to be winning games for a team. |
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Post by Paradis on Mar 8, 2017 17:01:44 GMT -5
Haha the year you get people on board with a high TE pick is the year Para doesnt like it, lmao All jokes aside Para any concern with Fournette weighing in at 240 and Cook, and Williams disappointing athletic results? Fournette -- not really. I mean, he's not flawless, but the clay is there -- and this team sorely needs a face on offense to rally behind. He's got that mojo going for him. Williams is what it is. I've seen enough to know he'll make plays in clutch situations. I wish he would have tested better, but we also have to remember he was out of football for all of 2015... you'll be back to 100% this summer hopefully. Cook -- i don't care about the testing with him. He's amazing on the field. He's also a fuck up waiting to happen. I'd be doing some major homework on that dude, cause if... IF.. we think he'll be OK in the long run, He's #2 playmaker in the draft IMO |
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Post by RobR on Mar 8, 2017 21:03:00 GMT -5
I'll have to side with Paradis in this argument when it comes to OJ Howard at 6. This draft is so loaded at the TE position, why waste the number 6 overall when we could probably get comparable play from someone a round or two later. That and I hate the idea of drafting a TE so high.
Howard falls into the same category as Jamal Adams for me. Both are players that I would love to wear the green and white but it's hard to justify selecting that position at 6 overall.
Also don't want Fournette at 6 because he is vastly overrated but that should be left for a different discussion.
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Post by Paradis on Mar 8, 2017 22:26:16 GMT -5
I'll have to side with Paradis in this argument when it comes to OJ Howard at 6. This draft is so loaded at the TE position, why waste the number 6 overall when we could probably get comparable play from someone a round or two later. That and I hate the idea of drafting a TE so high. Howard falls into the same category as Jamal Adams for me. Both are players that I would love to wear the green and white but it's hard to justify selecting that position at 6 overall. Also don't want Fournette at 6 because he is vastly overrated but that should be left for a different discussion. So what are you feeling. Fournette is overrated you feel, Too costly for OJ based on options throughout, Cook could possibly gangster his way of the NFL quickly.... No OTs worth that price.... ? |
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Post by RobR on Mar 8, 2017 23:31:09 GMT -5
I'll have to side with Paradis in this argument when it comes to OJ Howard at 6. This draft is so loaded at the TE position, why waste the number 6 overall when we could probably get comparable play from someone a round or two later. That and I hate the idea of drafting a TE so high. Howard falls into the same category as Jamal Adams for me. Both are players that I would love to wear the green and white but it's hard to justify selecting that position at 6 overall. Also don't want Fournette at 6 because he is vastly overrated but that should be left for a different discussion. So what are you feeling. Fournette is overrated you feel, Too costly for OJ based on options throughout, Cook could possibly gangster his way of the NFL quickly.... No OTs worth that price.... ? I plead the Lith. While this draft is super deep at multiple positions it somewhat leaves us in no mans land at #6 overall and those are words I will never utter again. My biggest hope is that Fournette is available and we load the coffers with a trade down. It's either that or some drunken sailors start a run on these shitty QB's. Three years from now this will be considered a strong draft class for multiple positions. That 2014 class was sweet for WR's....this year it encompasses many positions. And yeah....Fournette is a Henry clone. There, I said it. |
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Post by Paradis on Mar 8, 2017 23:33:57 GMT -5
So what are you feeling. Fournette is overrated you feel, Too costly for OJ based on options throughout, Cook could possibly gangster his way of the NFL quickly.... No OTs worth that price.... ? I plead the Lith. While this draft is super deep at multiple positions it somewhat leaves us in no mans land at #6 overall and those are words I will never utter again. My biggest hope is that Fournette is available and we load the coffers with a trade down. It's either that or some drunken sailors start a run on these shitty QB's. Three years from now this will be considered a strong draft class for multiple positions. That 2014 class was sweet for WR's....this year it encompasses many positions. And yeah....Fournette is a Henry clone. There, I said it. Travis Henry? |
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Post by RobR on Mar 8, 2017 23:39:45 GMT -5
I plead the Lith. While this draft is super deep at multiple positions it somewhat leaves us in no mans land at #6 overall and those are words I will never utter again. My biggest hope is that Fournette is available and we load the coffers with a trade down. It's either that or some drunken sailors start a run on these shitty QB's. Three years from now this will be considered a strong draft class for multiple positions. That 2014 class was sweet for WR's....this year it encompasses many positions. And yeah....Fournette is a Henry clone. There, I said it. Travis Henry? Derrick |
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Post by Paradis on Mar 8, 2017 23:42:59 GMT -5
I love Henry so not sure that's a bad thing. He brings more dynamic running style to the table. Wouldn't make Fournette out to be a world destroyer but taking a playmaker on offense in rnd 1 is a must. |
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Post by RobR on Mar 8, 2017 23:43:05 GMT -5
Big upright runner with no wiggle and suspect hands.....the ankle injuries are a bonus.
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Post by maury77 on Mar 9, 2017 6:54:52 GMT -5
I disagree with Rob's Fournette take, but I think we've discussed that enough already.
Honestly speaking, if Fournette is gone and we are going to roll the dice on a Lattimore, Hooker or Howard, shouldn't we just roll the dice on a guy like Watson instead? I don't think Watson will ever be a top 5 QB in the league, but if he turns out to be a top 10-15 QB with a high floor as a prospect, I don't see, given our current QB situation, how we can pass on that.
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Post by Lithfan on Mar 9, 2017 8:24:10 GMT -5
I'll have to side with Paradis in this argument when it comes to OJ Howard at 6. This draft is so loaded at the TE position, why waste the number 6 overall when we could probably get comparable play from someone a round or two later. That and I hate the idea of drafting a TE so high. Howard falls into the same category as Jamal Adams for me. Both are players that I would love to wear the green and white but it's hard to justify selecting that position at 6 overall. Also don't want Fournette at 6 because he is vastly overrated but that should be left for a different discussion. I agree with you on Fournette. Although if we took him, I would just have to trust in the judgement of so many other folks, who know way more than me and love him. I would be cautiously optimistic. As of now, I have concerns about every option for us at 6, which is why I started thinking about Howard. The argument about the depth of the TE position is, in my opinion, an argument to trade down, not necessarily wait until R2. Looks to me like there are 3 elite TEs in this class: Howard, Njoku and Engram. 3 guys who are potential matchup nightmares for defenses. They are all likely to be off the board in R2, and I don't think we get comparable play from a Bucky Hodges/Gerald Everett type as we would from the big 3. Waiting to pick a guy because the draft is loaded at a position is how you end up with Jalen Saunders, Shaq Evans and Quincy Enunwa (not complaining about Enunwa, but who could have foreseen what he is now at the time). Ideal world, someone wants to get ahead of Carolina to get their shot at Fournette and we can trade back, but that never seems to work out for us. If trade back is not an option, I think Howard should at least be in the discussion. |
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Post by RobR on Mar 9, 2017 9:52:43 GMT -5
I'll have to side with Paradis in this argument when it comes to OJ Howard at 6. This draft is so loaded at the TE position, why waste the number 6 overall when we could probably get comparable play from someone a round or two later. That and I hate the idea of drafting a TE so high. Howard falls into the same category as Jamal Adams for me. Both are players that I would love to wear the green and white but it's hard to justify selecting that position at 6 overall. Also don't want Fournette at 6 because he is vastly overrated but that should be left for a different discussion. I agree with you on Fournette. Although if we took him, I would just have to trust in the judgement of so many other folks, who know way more than me and love him. I would be cautiously optimistic. As of now, I have concerns about every option for us at 6, which is why I started thinking about Howard. The argument about the depth of the TE position is, in my opinion, an argument to trade down, not necessarily wait until R2. Looks to me like there are 3 elite TEs in this class: Howard, Njoku and Engram. 3 guys who are potential matchup nightmares for defenses. They are all likely to be off the board in R2, and I don't think we get comparable play from a Bucky Hodges/Gerald Everett type as we would from the big 3. Waiting to pick a guy because the draft is loaded at a position is how you end up with Jalen Saunders, Shaq Evans and Quincy Enunwa (not complaining about Enunwa, but who could have foreseen what he is now at the time). Ideal world, someone wants to get ahead of Carolina to get their shot at Fournette and we can trade back, but that never seems to work out for us. If trade back is not an option, I think Howard should at least be in the discussion. I can't argue with you about drafting to the strength of the draft. Hell, it's probably my catch phrase when this time of year rolls around. What's different is we have three strong positions this year in TE, RB, and DB so if I have to wait a round so be it. Idzik fucked up big time by waiting all the way until the fourth round to dip into the best WR class in decades...big difference IMO than waiting till the second for a TE. |
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