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Post by Trades on Mar 27, 2017 8:11:15 GMT -5
Innovation instead of government. What problems are with this idea other than that Obamacare make catastrophic policies illegal?
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Post by Jetworks on Mar 27, 2017 9:33:06 GMT -5
But how is it funded/paid for? Is this some sort of altruistic cooperative? What about the liability aspect for practitioners? Don't get me wrong, it sounds terrific, but I'm skeptical.
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Post by Trades on Mar 27, 2017 10:11:52 GMT -5
But how is it funded/paid for? Is this some sort of altruistic cooperative? What about the liability aspect for practitioners? Don't get me wrong, it sounds terrific, but I'm skeptical. They claim it is paid for by the patients and has a better profit model than practices that take insurance. $10/mo/child, $50/mo/adult. Prescriptions are negotiated at 80-90% discounts somehow. They mention that something like an x-ray is $20-$50.
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Post by DDNYjets on Mar 27, 2017 11:57:20 GMT -5
Yeah. I saw this. Couldnt believe it when I saw it but it appears legit. They started out in Kansas and are expanding. AtlasMD atlas.md/wichita/ atlas.md/wichita/our-fees/I think the more members they get the more buying power they have. That is how they negotiate down the prescription prices. FWIW if we go to single-payer (Universal Medicaid) then I think I will go the concierge route.
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Post by Trades on Mar 30, 2017 14:55:45 GMT -5
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Post by Trades on Apr 4, 2017 11:51:28 GMT -5
For what it is worth...
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Apr 5, 2017 17:45:07 GMT -5
I like Australia's system. Medicare for all with a free public health system, but they also have a parallel private health system and people can purchase private insurance to cover costs in the private system not covered by medicare. Competition between public and private keeps costs down.
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Post by Trades on Apr 5, 2017 19:02:02 GMT -5
I like Australia's system. Medicare for all with a free public health system, but they also have a parallel private health system and people can purchase private insurance to cover costs in the private system not covered by medicare. Competition between public and private keeps costs down. So you get to pay twice! Wonderful. How about a truly free market with a safety net for those truly in need. Why would I want to pay more in taxes to support a government run health system if I was going to pay extra so I don't have to be killed by, oh sorry, use it? Government is a mess. It is never cheap and NEVER keeps costs down. If the "public" system has to be paid for then there is no competition, just richer people paying to avoid being in the public system.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Apr 5, 2017 20:11:19 GMT -5
I like Australia's system. Medicare for all with a free public health system, but they also have a parallel private health system and people can purchase private insurance to cover costs in the private system not covered by medicare. Competition between public and private keeps costs down. So you get to pay twice! Wonderful. How about a truly free market with a safety net for those truly in need. Why would I want to pay more in taxes to support a government run health system if I was going to pay extra so I don't have to be killed by, oh sorry, use it? Government is a mess. It is never cheap and NEVER keeps costs down. If the "public" system has to be paid for then there is no competition, just richer people paying to avoid being in the public system. The Australian system works very well. Costs in the private hospitals and for insurance are controlled because if they get too high, you can just forego the private hospitals and use the public system. Although I do wonder if it only works because Australia is doing it on a much smaller scale than the US. You shouldn't fight it brother, healthcare for all is in our future. It is the way a civilized race behaves. If you were starting a government from scratch, healthcare for all is one of the first things you would address. Our problem is that the government does and is involved in too much. the Feds should be doing Healthcare, defense, and infrastructure and leave the rest to the states.
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Post by Trades on Apr 5, 2017 21:32:39 GMT -5
So you get to pay twice! Wonderful. How about a truly free market with a safety net for those truly in need. Why would I want to pay more in taxes to support a government run health system if I was going to pay extra so I don't have to be killed by, oh sorry, use it? Government is a mess. It is never cheap and NEVER keeps costs down. If the "public" system has to be paid for then there is no competition, just richer people paying to avoid being in the public system. The Australian system works very well. Costs in the private hospitals and for insurance are controlled because if they get too high, you can just forego the private hospitals and use the public system. Although I do wonder if it only works because Australia is doing it on a much smaller scale than the US. You shouldn't fight it brother, healthcare for all is in our future. It is the way a civilized race behaves. If you were starting a government from scratch, healthcare for all is one of the first things you would address. Our problem is that the government does and is involved in too much. the Feds should be doing Healthcare, defense, and infrastructure and leave the rest to the states. Have you seen the cost of defense and how badly our infrastructure has be abandoned? Yet you want those people to handle health care. Think about that. The old it is inevitable argument isn't a good one nor is the all civilized people argument. Do you realize that Australia has 23 Million people (that is only 3X the size of NYC) and NO borders with other countries so everyone is paying into the system? We have healthcare for all no matter what the media tells you. Between Medicare and Medicaid, government healthcare that is rife with rising costs, bloat and corruption and laws the forbid anyone turning away a patient for monetary reasons means we have healthcare for all. Why would you want to reduce hard working people to the lowest common denominator and then force them to pay AGAIN if they want good care this decade? That is ridiculous. Did you watch the video I posted? That is what government healthcare gets you. Are you willing to wait years to see a doctor? I can get an appointment within an hour at my doctor's office.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Apr 5, 2017 22:24:24 GMT -5
The Australian system works very well. Costs in the private hospitals and for insurance are controlled because if they get too high, you can just forego the private hospitals and use the public system. Although I do wonder if it only works because Australia is doing it on a much smaller scale than the US. You shouldn't fight it brother, healthcare for all is in our future. It is the way a civilized race behaves. If you were starting a government from scratch, healthcare for all is one of the first things you would address. Our problem is that the government does and is involved in too much. the Feds should be doing Healthcare, defense, and infrastructure and leave the rest to the states. Have you seen the cost of defense and how badly our infrastructure has be abandoned? Yet you want those people to handle health care. Think about that. The old it is inevitable argument isn't a good one nor is the all civilized people argument. Do you realize that Australia has 23 Million people (that is only 3X the size of NYC) and NO borders with other countries so everyone is paying into the system? We have healthcare for all no matter what the media tells you. Between Medicare and Medicaid, government healthcare that is rife with rising costs, bloat and corruption and laws the forbid anyone turning away a patient for monetary reasons means we have healthcare for all. Why would you want to reduce hard working people to the lowest common denominator and then force them to pay AGAIN if they want good care this decade? That is ridiculous. Did you watch the video I posted? That is what government healthcare gets you. Are you willing to wait years to see a doctor? I can get an appointment within an hour at my doctor's office. I hate government, but progress requires that everyone have access to either affordable or free healthcare. Not sure how we get there, but I can not envision this country 30 years from now without it.
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Post by Trades on Apr 6, 2017 7:39:08 GMT -5
Have you seen the cost of defense and how badly our infrastructure has be abandoned? Yet you want those people to handle health care. Think about that. The old it is inevitable argument isn't a good one nor is the all civilized people argument. Do you realize that Australia has 23 Million people (that is only 3X the size of NYC) and NO borders with other countries so everyone is paying into the system? We have healthcare for all no matter what the media tells you. Between Medicare and Medicaid, government healthcare that is rife with rising costs, bloat and corruption and laws the forbid anyone turning away a patient for monetary reasons means we have healthcare for all. Why would you want to reduce hard working people to the lowest common denominator and then force them to pay AGAIN if they want good care this decade? That is ridiculous. Did you watch the video I posted? That is what government healthcare gets you. Are you willing to wait years to see a doctor? I can get an appointment within an hour at my doctor's office. I hate government, but progress requires that everyone have access to either affordable or free healthcare. Not sure how we get there, but I can not envision this country 30 years from now without it. Progress requires? What the hell does that mean? Progress toward what? Crippling debt, poor healthcare and socialism? You hate government but you want to hand them one of the most important choices in life. You are brain washed into thinking that government has better answers than you do. EVERYONE in America has access to healthcare. Adding the government will not make it more affordable. Having more choices, market controls, freedom to choose what you want to buy, etc will make it more affordable. Look into Medicare and Medicaid fraud and tell me that the government is going to lower costs. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE. Someone has to pay for everything. All you are doing is changing WHO you pay. Do you want to pay 50% in income tax plus higher state and sales taxes? Who do you think will pay for this "Free" healthcare? You are paying one way or another. Why would you want to hand the money to the government and let them make your choices for you? Do you want to do the same with your food, housing, phone service, car, etc? I assume the answer is no so why would you want them making such an important choice as healthcare when you can see how it is not working around the world.
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Post by quantum on Apr 6, 2017 7:59:06 GMT -5
As someone who is intimately aware of the "quality" of government workers, I am solidly against any solution that involves said workers, ESPECIALLY "managers".
In the corporate world, its accepted that there is an 80-20 ratio of good to bad workers. Government reverses that, and its scary.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Apr 6, 2017 8:31:29 GMT -5
I hate government, but progress requires that everyone have access to either affordable or free healthcare. Not sure how we get there, but I can not envision this country 30 years from now without it. Progress requires? What the hell does that mean? Progress toward what? Crippling debt, poor healthcare and socialism? You hate government but you want to hand them one of the most important choices in life. You are brain washed into thinking that government has better answers than you do. EVERYONE in America has access to healthcare. Adding the government will not make it more affordable. Having more choices, market controls, freedom to choose what you want to buy, etc will make it more affordable. Look into Medicare and Medicaid fraud and tell me that the government is going to lower costs. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE. Someone has to pay for everything. All you are doing is changing WHO you pay. Do you want to pay 50% in income tax plus higher state and sales taxes? Who do you think will pay for this "Free" healthcare? You are paying one way or another. Why would you want to hand the money to the government and let them make your choices for you? Do you want to do the same with your food, housing, phone service, car, etc? I assume the answer is no so why would you want them making such an important choice as healthcare when you can see how it is not working around the world. perhaps the answer lies in reforming government -- not the tweaking kind of reforms people speak of normally -- but a real profound change. Frankly, I want revolutionary type changes. A balanced budget amendment, term limits, and outlawing government employee unions would be a good start. As to healthcare, so long as for profit insurance companies and providers are involved, costs will increase profoundly. They are pigs at the trough, much like our college education system.
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Post by Ff2 on Apr 6, 2017 8:33:02 GMT -5
As someone who is intimately aware of the "quality" of government workers, I am solidly against any solution that involves said workers, ESPECIALLY "managers". In the corporate world, its accepted that there is an 80-20 ratio of good to bad workers. Government reverses that, and its scary. But, as someone who has had to fight with a private insurance company who wanted to deny me benefits, I wish to god the ratio was 80-20. The situation of waiting for an asshole is a cubicle who seemed hell bent on seeing me die gives one a new perspective. Please don't make insurers out to be good guys.
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