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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 10:38:46 GMT -5
Trades: Jets & Browns - Browns have amassed a surplus of picks and use that to select the top player in the draft and possibly the top QB in the draft. We need so much help that it's time we (finally) trade down and amass picks in a draft that is not loaded with blue chippers but has a ton of very solid prospects throughout the first 3-4 rounds. Jets receive: Browns 1st round pick (pick 12) Browns 2nd round pick (pick 52 overall) Browns receive: Jets 1st round pick (pick 6) Jets & Broncos - I don't think there is a shot in hell that the Jets are getting anything better than a 3rd for Sheldon. Jets receive - Broncos pick 101 (3rd round comp pick) Broncos receive - Sheldon Richardson (who is ecstatic to move to a state where marijuana is legalized) So I used the draft tek 7 round mock draft and limited myself to players available at each of the Jets picks. www.drafttek.com/2017-NFL-Mock-Draft-Round2.aspSee, this is where your draft is flawed. You should have gone all mack daddy and picked players that weren't available because they had already been selected. Myles Garrett and 12 you say....what??? The Browns already picked him? Fuck them....send Hugh Jackson over to the Hampur....we'll get this straightened out. |
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Apr 13, 2017 11:04:15 GMT -5
HATE the Baker pick D-... for a number of reasons. A)he's nothing special, in fact i question his instincts. He's pushed around out of position all the time when he's not bowling down hill. B)Everytime i've seen him, he's useless trying to take down a player at the second level. I have no idea why he's been given this "early 2nd round tender" when there's so many better FS prospects later in the draft. I jsut revisited USC and Colorado before posting this, and yawned. I thought his USC tape was pretty good. You might have thought it was boring because they only threw at him once. I also didn't really see him get pushed around except twice when he was setting the edge. He's also not your traditional single high FS. He's a chess piece that you move around. If we drafted him. I'd still look to take David Jones in the later rounds to play center field. Then you'd have Pryor near the line of scrimage, Baker roaming the field and making plays, and Jones giving help over the top. Throws the RB like he was nothing and forces the QB into an INT  Reads the reverse well and knifes between the two blockers  It's already the 2nd half and it's the first time they threw at him all game. Gives up the completion even though he has tight coverage. Play winds up not counting anyway.  Knifes though the line of scrimmage to take the RB down for a loss.  Comes up and tackles the TE  Solid stop  1st bad play of the game and the only tackle he missed. He still made a great read tho.  Does a good job of not getting sucked in and stays outside to make the tackle.  Does a good job of getting out to the flat and would have made the tackle.  Here's the rest of the tape if anyone wants to watch it: |
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Post by Paradis on Apr 13, 2017 12:23:13 GMT -5
Appreciate the effortful reply.
1-- The getting after the QB thing just doesn't matter to me. That's what our SS is supposed to be doing. I hear your "chess-piece" praise, but if we're spending top dollar on a safety, that guy needs to be a ball hawking FS (on our roster) IMO. I could care less if he can pass rush.
Not to be difficult, but most of what you just spotlighted -- is downhill tackling, which as i said in my post he shows a good nose for, but that's not playing safety in the NFL... of the few plays where he has to backpedal, flip his hips and move laterally, he's late, out of position, spotty tackling or not part of the play.
I'm not trying to say he's sh*t, but i don't need another pryor, and i'm not seeing enough versatility in Baker (even close) to warrant the #36 pick in the draft. Certainly not when there's presumably players like Engram, Njoku, McKinley, Wilson, Lamp etc.. they won;t ALL go in round 1, and i just can't imagine a scenario where this guy is the BPA. he's a round 3-4 prospect in my books.
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Post by maury77 on Apr 13, 2017 12:34:21 GMT -5
I love the draft, Maury. I am not a big fan on Fanspeak, though, because I think most of their drafts are too easy -- too many guys seem to drop too low. I am not a big fan of Mixon (due to the off field issues) but could not complain at 101. Guys like Witherspoon, Smith, Mathis -- I doubt they make it to where you picked them, but all great value at those spots. As for Sheldon, I would be ecstatic with any day 2 pick. I have resigned myself to the fact that we likely get back a 4th for him, and I would be willing to take something lower than that. For the last two years, we have never figured out how to use him with Mo & Leo. And I don't but the argument that you can't trade him for a 4th or 5th because we would get a comp 3 if he walked. There is not guarantee that we get a comp pick for him at all. If we do not have a net loss in free agency next season, then we get nothing. Even if we trade him for a 4, it also clears $8MM cap space that can be carried over to next season. If I can move him for a 4 and $8MM cap, I do it. It's not a fanspeak draft. Drafttek runs a consensus draft (similar to what we did here in the Hampur). Fanspeak is fun, but it can get pretty unrealistic. |
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Post by maury77 on Apr 13, 2017 12:38:16 GMT -5
I want to shower you in praise, but i'm going to have to be the debbie downer  I've got a lot of beef in this draft. I like the trades, but in my defense, few players in your draft appear on my top 5 lists of prospects i like. 1-- Obviously Mike Williams is A+... i would almost cash out emotionally with that pick alone 2-- HATE the Baker pick D-... for a number of reasons. A)he's nothing special, in fact i question his instincts. He's pushed around out of position all the time when he's not bowling down hill. B)Everytime i've seen him, he's useless trying to take down a player at the second level. I have no idea why he's been given this "early 2nd round tender" when there's so many better FS prospects later in the draft. I jsut revisited USC and Colorado before posting this, and yawned. 2--Not a fan of Garcia in the 2nd. C-. Lack of options have pushed him way too high IMO. I'm not even sure he's a Tackle in the NFL. He didn't blow anyone in senior bowl if memory recalls. If we're gonna take a small school tackle that early, he needs to be bullet proof. 3-- Can't speak to the CB, so i'll take your word for it. 3-- No problem with Mixon at this spot, obviously. A+ 3-- Asiata; sure. B 5-- I wish i liked Smith, but there's something that feels incredibly Dorin Dickerson about him C+. His size is awkward, and I don't know what to make of him. He's a big question mark to me, in a class where there's lots of safer picks 6-- meh, not my fave, but we already got Mixon 7-- unknown to me. So... I dunno. Williams, Mixon and Asiata make it easy to like or be at peace with. but with all those picks, I don't like the filler material. Baker and Garcia are classic Jets "no returns on investment in the 2nd" picks IMO 2. We will have to agree to disagree on Baker. I think he is a phenomenal player. 2. Between Rob's assessment, Pauline's review of Garcia's practice tape at the Senior Bowl and Ledyard's scouting report on him, I felt comfortable taking Garcia there. 5. Regarding Smith, its the fifth round. I could have opted for Jeremy Sprinkle instead at that spot, but Smith had a more impressive Senior Bowl week from what I read and I already took one guy with character concerns in Mixon, so I opted for Smith. |
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Post by Paradis on Apr 13, 2017 12:48:44 GMT -5
I want to shower you in praise, but i'm going to have to be the debbie downer I've got a lot of beef in this draft. I like the trades, but in my defense, few players in your draft appear on my top 5 lists of prospects i like. 1-- Obviously Mike Williams is A+... i would almost cash out emotionally with that pick alone 2-- HATE the Baker pick D-... for a number of reasons. A)he's nothing special, in fact i question his instincts. He's pushed around out of position all the time when he's not bowling down hill. B)Everytime i've seen him, he's useless trying to take down a player at the second level. I have no idea why he's been given this "early 2nd round tender" when there's so many better FS prospects later in the draft. I jsut revisited USC and Colorado before posting this, and yawned. 2--Not a fan of Garcia in the 2nd. C-. Lack of options have pushed him way too high IMO. I'm not even sure he's a Tackle in the NFL. He didn't blow anyone in senior bowl if memory recalls. If we're gonna take a small school tackle that early, he needs to be bullet proof. 3-- Can't speak to the CB, so i'll take your word for it. 3-- No problem with Mixon at this spot, obviously. A+ 3-- Asiata; sure. B 5-- I wish i liked Smith, but there's something that feels incredibly Dorin Dickerson about him C+. His size is awkward, and I don't know what to make of him. He's a big question mark to me, in a class where there's lots of safer picks 6-- meh, not my fave, but we already got Mixon 7-- unknown to me. So... I dunno. Williams, Mixon and Asiata make it easy to like or be at peace with. but with all those picks, I don't like the filler material. Baker and Garcia are classic Jets "no returns on investment in the 2nd" picks IMO 2. We will have to agree to disagree on Baker. I think he is a phenomenal player. 2. Between Rob's assessment, Pauline's review of Garcia's practice tape at the Senior Bowl and Ledyard's scouting report on him, I felt comfortable taking Garcia there. 5. Regarding Smith, its the fifth round. I could have opted for Jeremy Sprinkle instead at that spot, but Smith had a more impressive Senior Bowl week from what I read and I already took one guy with character concerns in Mixon, so I opted for Smith. I haven't personally followed Garcia very closely. I've kept up the narrative tho and watched a little of what's available. I feel like if there was a lot to be excited about, his name would have continued to rise. More workouts. More buzz. I mean, he has literally no competition in the draft. We'll leave the Baker thing be. I'm obviously in the minority but I've become picky about high priced safeties. I'm sure my own final mock will be much less to the liking of Jet fans :0 |
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Post by Lithfan on Apr 13, 2017 13:07:18 GMT -5
I love the draft, Maury. I am not a big fan on Fanspeak, though, because I think most of their drafts are too easy -- too many guys seem to drop too low. I am not a big fan of Mixon (due to the off field issues) but could not complain at 101. Guys like Witherspoon, Smith, Mathis -- I doubt they make it to where you picked them, but all great value at those spots. As for Sheldon, I would be ecstatic with any day 2 pick. I have resigned myself to the fact that we likely get back a 4th for him, and I would be willing to take something lower than that. For the last two years, we have never figured out how to use him with Mo & Leo. And I don't but the argument that you can't trade him for a 4th or 5th because we would get a comp 3 if he walked. There is not guarantee that we get a comp pick for him at all. If we do not have a net loss in free agency next season, then we get nothing. Even if we trade him for a 4, it also clears $8MM cap space that can be carried over to next season. If I can move him for a 4 and $8MM cap, I do it. It's not a fanspeak draft. Drafttek runs a consensus draft (similar to what we did here in the Hampur). Fanspeak is fun, but it can get pretty unrealistic. Yeah, you did say drafttek in your first post. I guess sometimes reading comprehension is overrated. |
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Apr 13, 2017 13:14:47 GMT -5
Appreciate the effortful reply. 1-- The getting after the QB thing just doesn't matter to me. That's what our SS is supposed to be doing. I hear your "chess-piece" praise, but if we're spending top dollar on a safety, that guy needs to be a ball hawking FS (on our roster) IMO. I could care less if he can pass rush. Not to be difficult, but most of what you just spotlighted -- is downhill tackling, which as i said in my post he shows a good nose for, but that's not playing safety in the NFL... of the few plays where he has to backpedal, flip his hips and move laterally, he's late, out of position, spotty tackling or not part of the play. I'm not trying to say he's sh*t, but i don't need another pryor, and i'm not seeing enough versatility in Baker (even close) to warrant the #36 pick in the draft. Certainly not when there's presumably players like Engram, Njoku, McKinley, Wilson, Lamp etc.. they won;t ALL go in round 1, and i just can't imagine a scenario where this guy is the BPA. he's a round 3-4 prospect in my books. Baker is A LOT better in coverage than Pryor and 10 times the tackler because he actually wraps up. He also can play FS/SS/NCB while Pryor is strickly a SS and S/LB in Nickel defense so they're not really a like in my eyes. Washington didn't use a ton of double high safeties looks because they could leave their CBs on islands which is why you see him closer to the line of scrimmage usually, and why he roams around a lot. And agree to disagree about not having the hips to flip and turn or move laterally. However, I'll agree that there are better pure FS in this draft, but a lot of positions in today's NFL are evolving into hybrids. Look at Engram who we both love. He's not a traditional TE, but his skill set is extremely valuable. I think Baker would take pressure off some of the other players on defense which is why I rate him highly. Also teams are playing Dime and Nickel defenses more and more in today's NFL so using 3 safeties happens a lot. That's why I said I'd also draft someone like David Jones later in the draft who can be the traditional FS. I could see Bowles really liking Baker too. He had Mathieu in Arizona and their skill set is pretty similar. Plus Mathieu has a kid with Bowles daughter so he could probably get Baker to train with him in the offseason. BakerHeight: 5'10 Weight: 195 Arms: 30 3/4 Hands: 9 40: 4.45 Reps: 15 Vert: 32.5 Broad: 115 3 Cone: 6.76 Shuttle: 4.08 MathieuHeight: 5'9 Weight: 186 Arms: 31 1/8 Hands: 9 3/8 40: 4.50 Reps: 4 Vert: 34 Broad: 117 3 Cone: 6.87 Shuttle: 4.14 |
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Post by Paradis on Apr 13, 2017 14:00:09 GMT -5
Appreciate the effortful reply. 1-- The getting after the QB thing just doesn't matter to me. That's what our SS is supposed to be doing. I hear your "chess-piece" praise, but if we're spending top dollar on a safety, that guy needs to be a ball hawking FS (on our roster) IMO. I could care less if he can pass rush. Not to be difficult, but most of what you just spotlighted -- is downhill tackling, which as i said in my post he shows a good nose for, but that's not playing safety in the NFL... of the few plays where he has to backpedal, flip his hips and move laterally, he's late, out of position, spotty tackling or not part of the play. I'm not trying to say he's sh*t, but i don't need another pryor, and i'm not seeing enough versatility in Baker (even close) to warrant the #36 pick in the draft. Certainly not when there's presumably players like Engram, Njoku, McKinley, Wilson, Lamp etc.. they won;t ALL go in round 1, and i just can't imagine a scenario where this guy is the BPA. he's a round 3-4 prospect in my books. Baker is A LOT better in coverage than Pryor and 10 times the tackler because he actually wraps up. He also can play FS/SS/NCB while Pryor is strickly a SS and S/LB in Nickel defense so they're not really a like in my eyes. Washington didn't use a ton of double high safeties looks because they could leave their CBs on islands which is why you see him closer to the line of scrimmage usually, and why he roams around a lot. And agree to disagree about not having the hips to flip and turn or move laterally. However, I'll agree that there are better pure FS in this draft, but a lot of positions in today's NFL are evolving into hybrids. Look at Engram who we both love. He's not a traditional TE, but his skill set is extremely valuable. I think Baker would take pressure off some of the other players on defense which is why I rate him highly. Also teams are playing Dime and Nickel defenses more and more in today's NFL so using 3 safeties happens a lot. That's why I said I'd also draft someone like David Jones later in the draft who can be the traditional FS. I could see Bowles really liking Baker too. He had Mathieu in Arizona and their skill set is pretty similar. Plus Mathieu has a kid with Bowles daughter so he could probably get Baker to train with him in the offseason. BakerHeight: 5'10 Weight: 195 Arms: 30 3/4 Hands: 9 40: 4.45 Reps: 15 Vert: 32.5 Broad: 115 3 Cone: 6.76 Shuttle: 4.08 MathieuHeight: 5'9 Weight: 186 Arms: 31 1/8 Hands: 9 3/8 40: 4.50 Reps: 4 Vert: 34 Broad: 117 3 Cone: 6.87 Shuttle: 4.14 I'm open to having my mind changed. ...I'll take some more time to revisit more games and be less ignorant. (i expect the same from you jackals re: Tim Williams) And so yea, maybe i'm being to dense about his evaluation - but #36 overall?... I need to see something more than just "good" here and there. |
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Post by maury77 on Apr 13, 2017 14:07:40 GMT -5
Appreciate the effortful reply. 1-- The getting after the QB thing just doesn't matter to me. That's what our SS is supposed to be doing. I hear your "chess-piece" praise, but if we're spending top dollar on a safety, that guy needs to be a ball hawking FS (on our roster) IMO. I could care less if he can pass rush. Not to be difficult, but most of what you just spotlighted -- is downhill tackling, which as i said in my post he shows a good nose for, but that's not playing safety in the NFL... of the few plays where he has to backpedal, flip his hips and move laterally, he's late, out of position, spotty tackling or not part of the play. I'm not trying to say he's sh*t, but i don't need another pryor, and i'm not seeing enough versatility in Baker (even close) to warrant the #36 pick in the draft. Certainly not when there's presumably players like Engram, Njoku, McKinley, Wilson, Lamp etc.. they won;t ALL go in round 1, and i just can't imagine a scenario where this guy is the BPA. he's a round 3-4 prospect in my books. Baker is A LOT better in coverage than Pryor and 10 times the tackler because he actually wraps up. He also can play FS/SS/NCB while Pryor is strickly a SS and S/LB in Nickel defense so they're not really a like in my eyes. Washington didn't use a ton of double high safeties looks because they could leave their CBs on islands which is why you see him closer to the line of scrimmage usually, and why he roams around a lot. And agree to disagree about not having the hips to flip and turn or move laterally. However, I'll agree that there are better pure FS in this draft, but a lot of positions in today's NFL are evolving into hybrids. Look at Engram who we both love. He's not a traditional TE, but his skill set is extremely valuable. I think Baker would take pressure off some of the other players on defense which is why I rate him highly. Also teams are playing Dime and Nickel defenses more and more in today's NFL so using 3 safeties happens a lot. That's why I said I'd also draft someone like David Jones later in the draft who can be the traditional FS. I could see Bowles really liking Baker too. He had Mathieu in Arizona and their skill set is pretty similar. Plus Mathieu has a kid with Bowles daughter so he could probably get Baker to train with him in the offseason. BakerHeight: 5'10 Weight: 195 Arms: 30 3/4 Hands: 9 40: 4.45 Reps: 15 Vert: 32.5 Broad: 115 3 Cone: 6.76 Shuttle: 4.08 MathieuHeight: 5'9 Weight: 186 Arms: 31 1/8 Hands: 9 3/8 40: 4.50 Reps: 4 Vert: 34 Broad: 117 3 Cone: 6.87 Shuttle: 4.14 Your quote about versatility is spot on and I've paid more attention to that this year than i have previously. The NFL is really becoming a game of matchups and traditional roles (such as a run stopping ILB) are becoming less important. |
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