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Post by maury77 on Jun 7, 2017 6:47:20 GMT -5
This season has a very Kotite vibe going into it. That being said, we were in the championship game 2 years after Kotite, so there is that. We do have a lot of solid young pieces on the team, the problem is that:
a) We don't have much elite talent on the team; and
b) We are weak at the traditional cornerstone positions (QB, LT, Edge, CB).
Honestly, if Bowles can win 4-5 games with this roster, that reflects well on him, because we have arguably the worst roster in the league.
Let's see what happens. The Yankees, who were also going with youth this year, were supposed to suck, yet they find themselves at the top of their division.
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Post by Lithfan on Jun 7, 2017 7:28:21 GMT -5
All of this should have been done day 1 when Maccagnan took the job. That whole spending spree In year one was a total waste, just delayed the invetible by two years. Exactly. And what is left of that 2015 spending spree. A guard and a nickel corner. Thats it. Macc managed to spend $60MM that offseason and the only sustainable contributors beyond 2 years were Carpenter and Skrine. And as you point out, when you look at his drafts, he continually has failed to consider positional value. His 3 first rounders were a 3-4 DE (non premium position), a 3-4 ILB (non-premium position) and a S (also, non premium position). Where are the difference makers: the WR1, the LT, the Edge, the CB1, the RB1. Answer: they all went to other teams. Were we really "lucky" to have Leo and Adams fall to us, or do other teams consider positional value more than we do. Just look at two of the guys who dropped in the first round of this draft -- Jonathon Allen (3-4 DE) and Malik Hooker (S). Macc's rigid adherence to BPA, without conisdering team need or positional value has filled a team with some good young players at non-premium positions. While I agree that this rebuild is necessary, I have no faith that Macc is the right guy to oversee Phase 2, which is actually the build part of this. The tear down had to be done. Can't wait to see us start Josh McCown for 16 games this year, finish 3-13 and then pass on all of the elite QB prosects next year because we have to see what we have in Hack.
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 7, 2017 7:35:43 GMT -5
The gap is closing
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Post by JetRepulsion1 on Jun 7, 2017 7:43:35 GMT -5
All of this should have been done day 1 when Maccagnan took the job. That whole spending spree In year one was a total waste, just delayed the invetible by two years. Exactly. And what is left of that 2015 spending spree. A guard and a nickel corner. Thats it. Macc managed to spend $60MM that offseason and the only sustainable contributors beyond 2 years were Carpenter and Skrine. And as you point out, when you look at his drafts, he continually has failed to consider positional value. His 3 first rounders were a 3-4 DE (non premium position), a 3-4 ILB (non-premium position) and a S (also, non premium position). Where are the difference makers: the WR1, the LT, the Edge, the CB1, the RB1. Answer: they all went to other teams. Were we really "lucky" to have Leo and Adams fall to us, or do other teams consider positional value more than we do. Just look at two of the guys who dropped in the first round of this draft -- Jonathon Allen (3-4 DE) and Malik Hooker (S). Macc's rigid adherence to BPA, without conisdering team need or positional value has filled a team with some good young players at non-premium positions. While I agree that this rebuild is necessary, I have no faith that Macc is the right guy to oversee Phase 2, which is actually the build part of this. The tear down had to be done. Can't wait to see us start Josh McCown for 16 games this year, finish 3-13 and then pass on all of the elite QB prosects next year because we have to see what we have in Hack. It's gonna be sooo ugly this season. No way in hell Macc or Bowles survives if they are as bad as expected. None. But Macc is too fuckig stupid to realize it. This ain't Houston where they were given forever to finally get things right. NY fans will ride his worthless ass outta here on a rail. Fuck this team.
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Post by yankeejet22 on Jun 7, 2017 8:00:05 GMT -5
I'll wait until I see them play to see where the team is headed. It sure will be interesting.
Anyway, this roster is made up of many players in years 1-3. We'll see how they shape up. That's better than what we had a few years ago... an old roster headed by a crappy old QB in Fitz.
Besides, what did we lose?
Marshall dropped passes and was fighting with everyone. Mangold was hurt the last few years and $$. Fitz is garbage. Decker coming back from injury and $$. Harris old and slow and $$. Revis was a shell of his former self and $$
So what does anyone expect? So the roster is bad or young? They can call it what they want. I call that it refreshing and that it was NEEDED.
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Post by carlton on Jun 7, 2017 8:25:28 GMT -5
BURN IT DOWN
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Post by MDL JET on Jun 7, 2017 8:50:56 GMT -5
All of this should have been done day 1 when Maccagnan took the job. That whole spending spree In year one was a total waste, just delayed the invetible by two years. Exactly. And what is left of that 2015 spending spree. A guard and a nickel corner. Thats it. Macc managed to spend $60MM that offseason and the only sustainable contributors beyond 2 years were Carpenter and Skrine. And as you point out, when you look at his drafts, he continually has failed to consider positional value. His 3 first rounders were a 3-4 DE (non premium position), a 3-4 ILB (non-premium position) and a S (also, non premium position). Where are the difference makers: the WR1, the LT, the Edge, the CB1, the RB1. Answer: they all went to other teams. Were we really "lucky" to have Leo and Adams fall to us, or do other teams consider positional value more than we do. Just look at two of the guys who dropped in the first round of this draft -- Jonathon Allen (3-4 DE) and Malik Hooker (S). Macc's rigid adherence to BPA, without conisdering team need or positional value has filled a team with some good young players at non-premium positions. While I agree that this rebuild is necessary, I have no faith that Macc is the right guy to oversee Phase 2, which is actually the build part of this. The tear down had to be done. Can't wait to see us start Josh McCown for 16 games this year, finish 3-13 and then pass on all of the elite QB prosects next year because we have to see what we have in Hack.No chance Woody lets that happen. He sees it. He sees his new face of the franchise, the commercials, the press, the buzz all in his line of sight. That's why he's on board with this rebuild and pushing it to the max with Decker and Harris being cut. He wants to be all in. Woody is the only thing that stays the same the whole time and it's because of him that this franchise is so up and down. They should've started Year 1 of the regime, but at the least, started last year and not resign guys like Fitz trying to capture magic one last time. He can't help himself. That's why I highly doubt Bowles will be back next year, regardless of he does a decent job. He'll want a hot new name to go along with his brand new QB. I'm not hating on Mac too much, even if we could have had a guy like Beasly instead of Leo. I think he's doing a decent job of building the back end of the roster with solid depth and once they get their guy at QB, they can focus on adding around him and adding those elite talents on top of the depth their building now.
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Post by kdelgado62 on Jun 7, 2017 9:26:58 GMT -5
Not entirely wrong but it's not as dire as some pretend it is. The defense might actually be good, which seems insane but we have talent at multiple levels. I will say that I don't believe in the CB is a cornerstone position argument. Having good CBs is important but the Pats, Texans, Steelers, Dolphins, Rams, Cowboys all built good defenses without great CBs. Some did it with great safeties and others with great front 7s.
The problem is looking at that first offseason and applying it to now. It would have been nice to have Revis still contributing to this team but in general those moves were a final push to be successful with the old core of this team. Macc should have torn down the team and gone for a rebuild then but with an aging o-line and the possibility to catch lightning in a bottle in this market he made those decisions. It worked one year and failed the next. Instead of continuing to try and cover up that miscalculation we're blowing up the team. That's a good decision.
Macc has been unconvincing in terms of cohesive decision making but this is the closest I've seen this franchise to being in sync since early Tangini. Mac might suck in his execution, and there is no guarantee that we'll rebuild properly with him there but at least it looks like there is a goal - get a qb next year or Hack/Petty does enough to make this roster respectable.
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Post by Paradis on Jun 7, 2017 9:38:28 GMT -5
Is this the worst roster in a decade? Maybe. What makes it look so bad is that if you take the 3 most important positions, QB, Edge rusher and LT, the Jets have nothing there. Combine that with an offense that really doesn't have any playmakers that worry defensive coordinators. The roster is bad but, it needed to be stripped down to nothing to facilitate the rebuild. The problem isnt cutting all the older vets, it's the lack of blue chip younger players on this team. You look at all of those first round defensive players selected and what do you really have? Nevermind the fact that with all those first round defensive picks, they ignored the most important position on defense, edge rusher. It's almost comical how they have ignored that position, not only in the first round, but in the draft in general. When you continually miss in the top 3 rounds of the draft it kills your roster. It forces you to sign free agents that you really shouldn't have to. All of this should have been done day 1 when Maccagnan took the job. That whole spending spree In year one was a total waste, just delayed the invetible by two years. So until this team finds a QB and drafts MUCH better, nothing will change. The stripping down part only works when you have some youth/QB/LT to work around. Like you pointed out -- this is what a rebuild (2.0? since we tried two years ago) looks like when your draft sucks ass. A team devoid of optimism.
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Post by Paradis on Jun 7, 2017 9:42:43 GMT -5
All of this should have been done day 1 when Maccagnan took the job. That whole spending spree In year one was a total waste, just delayed the invetible by two years. Exactly. And what is left of that 2015 spending spree. A guard and a nickel corner. Thats it. Macc managed to spend $60MM that offseason and the only sustainable contributors beyond 2 years were Carpenter and Skrine. And as you point out, when you look at his drafts, he continually has failed to consider positional value. His 3 first rounders were a 3-4 DE (non premium position), a 3-4 ILB (non-premium position) and a S (also, non premium position). W here are the difference makers: the WR1, the LT, the Edge, the CB1, the RB1. Answer: they all went to other teams. Were we really "lucky" to have Leo and Adams fall to us, or do other teams consider positional value more than we do. Just look at two of the guys who dropped in the first round of this draft -- Jonathon Allen (3-4 DE) and Malik Hooker (S). Macc's rigid adherence to BPA, without conisdering team need or positional value has filled a team with some good young players at non-premium positions.
While I agree that this rebuild is necessary, I have no faith that Macc is the right guy to oversee Phase 2, which is actually the build part of this. The tear down had to be done. Can't wait to see us start Josh McCown for 16 games this year, finish 3-13 and then pass on all of the elite QB prosects next year because we have to see what we have in Hack. 100%, right down to the Mac exodus post 2017. Yet I know they've been promised their jobs, I hope the reality of what's been done here is so painful to the eyes that Woody changes his mind in december.
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Post by fullblast on Jun 7, 2017 9:46:46 GMT -5
Shock the world amirite.
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Post by frostlich on Jun 7, 2017 9:49:37 GMT -5
When do we bring Mangini back in the front office?
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Post by Paradis on Jun 7, 2017 10:00:19 GMT -5
Besides, what did we lose? Marshall dropped passes and was fighting with everyone. Mangold was hurt the last few years and $$. Fitz is garbage. Decker coming back from injury and $$. Harris old and slow and $$. Revis was a shell of his former self and $$ Totally... i'm not saying the minuses were end of the world... the additions needed for a rebuild tho, are absent. Which means we're just stripping paint. If he would have just gone with popular vote, this is what our roster would look like 2015: Leo Williams DE Preston Smith (edge) John Miller OG 2016: Paxton Lynch QB Tyler Boyd WR Kyler Fackrell OLB 2017: Adams S Cook RB Garcia OT It's not that hard. Really.
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Post by JETSALLDAY96 on Jun 7, 2017 10:10:41 GMT -5
It was time to blow the team up. We filled the roster up with inflated egos and bad draft picks. Now this what we're left with. Now we just have to hope we're not in a situation like the Raiders were before Derrick Carr got there. Bad drafts and losing records could be our future for the foreseeable future.
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Post by JetRepulsion1 on Jun 7, 2017 10:15:30 GMT -5
Besides, what did we lose? Marshall dropped passes and was fighting with everyone. Mangold was hurt the last few years and $$. Fitz is garbage. Decker coming back from injury and $$. Harris old and slow and $$. Revis was a shell of his former self and $$ Totally... i'm not saying the minuses were end of the world... the additions needed for a rebuild tho, are absent. Which means we're just stripping paint. If he would have just gone with popular vote, this is what our roster would look like 2015: Leo Williams DE Preston Smith (edge) John Miller OG 2016: Paxton Lynch QB Tyler Boyd WR Kyler Fackrell OLB 2017: Adams S Cook RB Garcia OT It's not that hard. Really. Exactly. I've only seen moronic GMs take the same position in the first 2 rounds - idiot Kotite when he was acting GM took keyshawn in rd 1 and alex van dyke in rd 2 (over tony brakens). He just seems to be missing on ALOT of picks, important, high picks. Can't do that and build a strong roster in this league. Cook was the pick in rd 2 this year. A potential game changing RB who would make the offense better and more dynamic and take pressure off a young QB. Instead we have dick at WR, old crap at RB, no QB, etc. But, macc is too blind, deaf and dumb. It's at the point where who really gives a crap. That's how bad it is.
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