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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Jan 4, 2015 12:51:49 GMT -5
In a game where the RB position has lost value to the point where it's not worth a 1st round pick, he seemed to be really missed yesterday, along with his 40% of the offensive production, and pass protection. The Steelers looked like they did at the beginning of the season when they couldn't pass protect for shit. Benji apologized to 'everybody' for losing the game and sustained whiplash on one of the sacks.
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Post by jetstream23 on Jan 4, 2015 13:18:12 GMT -5
Good point. Trends and styles seem to come and go, and come back around again in the NFL. Remember that with RGIII, Wilson, Kaepernick we were entering the era of the mobile / read-option QB.....But I'm looking at the NFL's top 4 and seeing only Wilson represent as the typical statues like Brady and Manning wait to play next week.
The running back started to become an apparent "commodity" in the early/mid-2000's, right around the time guys like Curtis Martin were retiring. The idea became that you could draft a RB anywhere in the middle rounds and probably hit a homerun. Top picks were reserved only for the elite of the elite, like Adrian Peterson types. I think the fact remains that you still need a really good one for the most part...but you can find these guys in different places. You don't need to use a 1st round pick like it seemed you had to in the 80's and 90's.
I think I'd disagree that the "the RB position has lost value to the point where it's not worth a 1st round pick." I don't think RB has lost value, it's just that you can find that value outside Round 1. Heck, the Jets even found a pretty good one using a late round pick to trade for Chris Ivory.
#6 is high to take a RB this year, but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the Jets trade back and get a guy like Gordon while accumulating another 2nd round pick. Gordon and Ivory, while improving the OLine could be some good medicine for an offense that is likely stuck with Geno Smith for at least another year.
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Post by Touchable on Jan 4, 2015 13:24:32 GMT -5
The need for a good, quality backfield will never die.
I don't give a shit what the talking heads on ESPN say.
All of this crap about defense and the running game being dead is a bunch of bullshit. I think Seattle proved that back in February and are in the process of proving it again.
That's why if Denver fails to win the Superbowl again this year, they should do whatever it takes to move up for a kid like Gordon to give Peyton a reliable, explosive option out of the backfield for the next year or two before he retires.
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Post by jetstream23 on Jan 4, 2015 13:37:32 GMT -5
The need for a good, quality backfield will never die. I don't give a shit what the talking heads on ESPN say. All of this crap about defense and the running game being dead is a bunch of bullshit. I think Seattle proved that back in February and are in the process of proving it again. That's why if Denver fails to win the Superbowl again this year, they should do whatever it takes to move up for a kid like Gordon to give Peyton a reliable, explosive option out of the backfield for the next year or two before he retires. I think Peyton is done, quite frankly. It's hard to say but I think it's going to be a sad display next week in Denver. Maybe it's just me but I think the guy is starting to decline week by week right before our eyes and he is looking at two remaining games in Denver and New England...in a cold, wintery January. And I agree about the defense and rushing, I still think that ultimately wins championships. Given the choice, no team would throw a single pass if they could rush for 5 YPC and knew they had a shutdown defense. The problem is that very, very few teams can do both those things so you need the quick-strike ability of a passing game. The Cardinals are a perfect example of that. I'd suggest that the Cardinals are still one of the Top 3 teams in the NFL....team-wise. They hung around in a playoff game with NO quarterback to speak of. It was sad to watch because once Carolina hit 20 points I knew there was zero chance the Cardinals could win.
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Post by jetstream23 on Jan 4, 2015 13:38:31 GMT -5
You could also argue that the Chip Kelly Up-tempo offense is the complete opposite of ground and pound. The key is that both can be very, very successful....IF executed properly. I would choose having the right personnel and great execution over the idea that one strategy is better than the other. Give me either strategy (up-tempo passing vs. G n' P), but give it to me with the right personnel and the ability to execute.
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Post by DDNYjets on Jan 4, 2015 13:45:32 GMT -5
Personnel is the key. Your personnel needs to match your identity and you need to know what your identity is as an offense. I think that is where we got into some trouble. We got away from the ground and pound and let some of the personnel leave, lost some to retirement but we never managed to replace them so when we tried to get back to it we couldn't. Cant just change on a whim. Guys like Faneca, Woody, T Rich, Braylon, Brad Smith, Turner, Hartsock were all great blockers. Its been 4 years and not one of them has been replaced with a player of equal or greater value for the ground and pound.
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Post by jetstream23 on Jan 4, 2015 13:47:55 GMT -5
Personnel is the key. Your personnel needs to match your identity and you need to know what your identity is as an offense. I think that is where we got into some trouble. We got away from the ground and pound and let some of the personnel leave and then when we tried to get back to it we couldn't. Cant just change on a whim. Like having real cornerbacks on a defense completely predicated on strong man-cover CBs?
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Post by DDNYjets on Jan 4, 2015 13:51:15 GMT -5
Personnel is the key. Your personnel needs to match your identity and you need to know what your identity is as an offense. I think that is where we got into some trouble. We got away from the ground and pound and let some of the personnel leave and then when we tried to get back to it we couldn't. Cant just change on a whim. Like having real cornerbacks on a defense completely predicated on strong man-cover CBs? Yep. And Rex should have fought for that. According to reports Rex became a bump on a log in personnel meetings. Woody said he was in every meeting and always agreed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 14:08:20 GMT -5
The need for a good, quality backfield will never die. I don't give a shit what the talking heads on ESPN say. All of this crap about defense and the running game being dead is a bunch of bullshit. I think Seattle proved that back in February and are in the process of proving it again. That's why if Denver fails to win the Superbowl again this year, they should do whatever it takes to move up for a kid like Gordon to give Peyton a reliable, explosive option out of the backfield for the next year or two before he retires. We are way past the point where Peyton can play Elway to the next big thing's Terrell Davis.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 14:10:07 GMT -5
The need for a good, quality backfield will never die.I don't give a shit what the talking heads on ESPN say. All of this crap about defense and the running game being dead is a bunch of bullshit. I think Seattle proved that back in February and are in the process of proving it again. That's why if Denver fails to win the Superbowl again this year, they should do whatever it takes to move up for a kid like Gordon to give Peyton a reliable, explosive option out of the backfield for the next year or two before he retires. Yup, but they need to be relevant in the passing game, blocking or receiving. At least, in the general sense. You can still have specialists.
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Post by Hotman on Jan 4, 2015 14:53:43 GMT -5
The need for a good, quality backfield will never die. I don't give a shit what the talking heads on ESPN say. All of this crap about defense and the running game being dead is a bunch of bullshit. I think Seattle proved that back in February and are in the process of proving it again. That's why if Denver fails to win the Superbowl again this year, they should do whatever it takes to move up for a kid like Gordon to give Peyton a reliable, explosive option out of the backfield for the next year or two before he retires. We are way past the point where Peyton can play Elway to the next big thing's Terrell Davis. Now STFU dingbat
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Post by jetstream23 on Jan 4, 2015 15:44:47 GMT -5
Like having real cornerbacks on a defense completely predicated on strong man-cover CBs? Yep. And Rex should have fought for that. According to reports Rex became a bump on a log in personnel meetings. Woody said he was in every meeting and always agreed. I don't know how much I believe of what Woody says. This is from March....long before Idzik gave Rex a ticket on the Titanic and said, "enjoy the trip!" Rex may have only gotten screwed. He'll land on his feet with a HC job regardless of how some knuckleheads spout off that he'll only be a DC in this league. But Rex getting screwed temporarily is far worse than us fans who got royally f**cked by the firing of a very good head coach. JMHO.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Jan 4, 2015 15:51:21 GMT -5
I don't believe a word of what Woody says, e.g. that he would have had Revis back (sure you're just the owner but you had no say in it), and including that Rex supposedly sat quietly agreeing in every meeting. Yeah sure. Can anyone see Rex sitting quietly in any meeting? but people here have lapped that up as the rationale for letting him go.
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Post by DDNYjets on Jan 4, 2015 15:57:35 GMT -5
Maybe Rex was passive aggressive in voicing his displeasure with Idzik. I can see Rex getting pissed and not giving a fuck anymore. He knew Idzik didn't want him as his HC but was basically forced to keeping him after last season b.c of how we finished up. So maybe he didn't say anything in meeting and then basically talked behind Idzik's back. I never got the feeling they liked each other much. That hug in the lockeroom after the Miami game last year reminded me of the Bellychick/Mangini handshake. It was a forced marriage.
I disagree with you on Rex. IMO him winning in Atlanta doesn't mean firing him was the wrong decision. And I won't complain if he does. We need a regime that can find and develop a QB. IMO the HC has to be part of that. If I was Blank I would strongly consider Rex b.c his strengths are exactly what that team needs and that team's strengths are exactly what Rex is poor at IMO. IF he is hired there I would expect them to do well.
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Post by Redlichtie on Jan 4, 2015 15:59:08 GMT -5
At least a coupe of top running back prospects likely going in round 1 later this offseason if not top 15..
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