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Post by Bonhomme Richard on Jan 10, 2015 13:10:34 GMT -5
I honestly think it's great that community colleges are now part of the national conversation. Student loans for traditional 4 year colleges are so astronomical and untenable for anyone graduating without a guaranteed $200k job that they will surely be the next bubble to burst. The best thing someone can do, imo, is to go to a CC for 2 years and then transfer to a 4 year school for a bachelor's degree.
That being said, like everything else this president proposes, the devil is in the details -- and these details are absurd. $60-70 billion price tag with Republicans controlling Congress? Lol, good luck with that. I have a feeling POTUS proposed it, knowing it won't get passed, but giving himself the opportunity to blame an obstructionist Congress.
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Post by Trades on Jan 10, 2015 14:24:18 GMT -5
I honestly think it's great that community colleges are now part of the national conversation. Student loans for traditional 4 year colleges are so astronomical and untenable for anyone graduating without a guaranteed $200k job that they will surely be the next bubble to burst. The best thing someone can do, imo, is to go to a CC for 2 years and then transfer to a 4 year school for a bachelor's degree. That being said, like everything else this president proposes, the devil is in the details -- and these details are absurd. $60-70 billion price tag with Republicans controlling Congress? Lol, good luck with that. I have a feeling POTUS proposed it, knowing it won't get passed, but giving himself the opportunity to blame an obstructionist Congress. The funny thing is that those community colleges still exist and are extremely inexpensive when compared with a 4 year school. It is a great start for some at a reasonable price. The only thing making them "free" (which we all knows means that someone else is paying for it) will do is flood the system with tons of waste. The expense will go up because the free market controls have been completely removed. $60 billion grows to $120 in 4 years because we will have to build, staff and maintain so many more school even though half of the kids are failing out. So then we will lower the curve to get more to pass thus watering down the community colleges to the point that they are worthless but still costing the people $20 billion a year because we all know it is next to impossible to end a government program. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 17:06:37 GMT -5
I honestly think it's great that community colleges are now part of the national conversation. Student loans for traditional 4 year colleges are so astronomical and untenable for anyone graduating without a guaranteed $200k job that they will surely be the next bubble to burst. The best thing someone can do, imo, is to go to a CC for 2 years and then transfer to a 4 year school for a bachelor's degree. That being said, like everything else this president proposes, the devil is in the details -- and these details are absurd. $60-70 billion price tag with Republicans controlling Congress? Lol, good luck with that. I have a feeling POTUS proposed it, knowing it won't get passed, but giving himself the opportunity to blame an obstructionist Congress. I wonder where they could find that much money? www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-22/flawed-f-35-fighter-too-big-to-kill-as-lockheed-hooks-45-states.html |
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Post by PK on Jan 10, 2015 17:51:23 GMT -5
Wouldn't giving college away for free lessen the importance of having a degree? If everyone has one...how does possessing one make you more qualified for a job than everyone else?
It's amazing that many people attend schools of "higher learning" but are every day fucking morons. People who have taken math classes for 2 decades...but don't know how to use a calculator properly.
It's sad.
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Post by PK on Jan 10, 2015 17:57:57 GMT -5
I so smaht...went to college.
Can't figure out how to Google "How to fix toilet flapper". Instead, call and bother plumber at 7pm on Saturday night to do it for me. Complain about bill...because college and he's a peasant who doesn't deserve to get paid in full because he fixed it in 3 minutes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 21:30:32 GMT -5
I so smaht...went to college. Can't figure out how to Google "How to fix toilet flapper". Instead, call and bother plumber at 7pm on Saturday night to do it for me. Complain about bill...because college and he's a peasant who doesn't deserve to get paid in full because he fixed it in 3 minutes. They're job creators!!!!!!!! |
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Post by rexneffect on Jan 11, 2015 10:57:21 GMT -5
A person with a 2.5 can be reasonably expected to transfer into a four year program or find a job that would accept a two year program. Setting the bar at 3.5 is a nice idea but more likely to deter people from accessing the program and in turn would not have the effect of encouraging people to obtain further education who otherwise would not. Ummm, that's kind of the point. If you are getting something handed to you, you should at least be willing to be held to a high standard. If not, how can you justify being given something in the first place if you aren't worthy? By setting the standard so low, the only thing you are ensuring is that plenty of people will be able to get degrees in areas that aren't going to necessarily achieve the grand vision of making America a force in academia and the workplace, which is supposed to be the whole point of this program. To get into my nursing program you needed at least a 3.5 plus a high score on the NLN to be considered. There are many, myself included, that exceeded that threshold and thereby ensured a quality pool of candidates that would eventually enter the healthcare arena. Those that didn't cut it could try again or pursue something else. Shouldn't the same be true of students getting free educations intended to eventually better our country through their entrance into the workforce? Granted, I agree with you that 3.5 is unrealistic, but 2.5 is not the answer either. If the goal of the program was to reward the best students or create the best employees then sure, I would agree with your premise. However, that is not the case. This program is not designed at making the country a force in academia or the workplace. It's to create job opportunities for low income young adults that pay better than the entry level jobs they are more likely to get absent any education so they can get out of poverty. |
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Post by rexneffect on Jan 11, 2015 11:07:56 GMT -5
I so smaht...went to college. Can't figure out how to Google "How to fix toilet flapper". Instead, call and bother plumber at 7pm on Saturday night to do it for me. Complain about bill...because college and he's a peasant who doesn't deserve to get paid in full because he fixed it in 3 minutes. I don't think it has anything to do with their college education because I get the same resistance to clients paying my bills regardless of education. It's more an issue that most people work in jobs where they perform a piece of the work flow their their wages are set based upon that atomization of work. They rarely have a meaningful sense that we don't just cash their payment and put the whole thing in our personal checking account like they do with their paycheck. The way we work just isn't the way most jobs are structured anymore. |
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Post by PK on Jan 11, 2015 13:38:37 GMT -5
I so smaht...went to college. Can't figure out how to Google "How to fix toilet flapper". Instead, call and bother plumber at 7pm on Saturday night to do it for me. Complain about bill...because college and he's a peasant who doesn't deserve to get paid in full because he fixed it in 3 minutes. I don't think it has anything to do with their college education because I get the same resistance to clients paying my bills regardless of education. It's more an issue that most people work in jobs where they perform a piece of the work flow their their wages are set based upon that atomization of work. They rarely have a meaningful sense that we don't just cash their payment and put the whole thing in our personal checking account like they do with their paycheck. The way we work just isn't the way most jobs are structured anymore. My point was that a great majority of people considered to be smart are very stupid. A degree is pretty meaningless. Its basically a reciept. |
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Post by Jetworks on Jan 11, 2015 18:06:37 GMT -5
Ummm, that's kind of the point. If you are getting something handed to you, you should at least be willing to be held to a high standard. If not, how can you justify being given something in the first place if you aren't worthy? By setting the standard so low, the only thing you are ensuring is that plenty of people will be able to get degrees in areas that aren't going to necessarily achieve the grand vision of making America a force in academia and the workplace, which is supposed to be the whole point of this program. To get into my nursing program you needed at least a 3.5 plus a high score on the NLN to be considered. There are many, myself included, that exceeded that threshold and thereby ensured a quality pool of candidates that would eventually enter the healthcare arena. Those that didn't cut it could try again or pursue something else. Shouldn't the same be true of students getting free educations intended to eventually better our country through their entrance into the workforce? Granted, I agree with you that 3.5 is unrealistic, but 2.5 is not the answer either. If the goal of the program was to reward the best students or create the best employees then sure, I would agree with your premise. However, that is not the case. This program is not designed at making the country a force in academia or the workplace. It's to create job opportunities for low income young adults that pay better than the entry level jobs they are more likely to get absent any education so they can get out of poverty. According to the statements made by POTUS when he announced this, along with the fact sheet, you're completely off base on that. " In our growing global economy, Americans need to have more knowledge and more skills to compete -- by 2020, an estimated 35 percent of job openings will require at least a bachelor's degree, and 30 percent will require some college or an associate's degree. Students should be able to get the knowledge and the skills they need without taking on decades' worth of student debt." www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/01/08/president-proposes-make-community-college-free-responsible-students-2-years"Nearly a century ago, a movement that made high school widely available helped lead to rapid growth in the education and skills training of Americans, driving decades of economic growth and prosperity. America thrived in the 20th century in large part because we had the most educated workforce in the world. But other nations have matched or exceeded the secret to our success. Today, more than ever, Americans need more knowledge and skills to meet the demands of a growing global economy without having to take on decades of debt before they even embark on their career." www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/01/09/fact-sheet-white-house-unveils-america-s-college-promise-proposal-tuitioSo again, if you are being afforded this opportunity gratis, isn't it in the best interests of the government, and by extension the country's, to make the requirements at least somewhat demanding? I would say yes. Even if you were right, a student who does better in school is likely more apt to do well as an employee compared to one who does worse, no? |
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Post by PK on Jan 11, 2015 18:48:24 GMT -5
Only 59% of people who start college graduate with a bachelors.
Why hasn't the assholes in congress made this as much of an issue as they have poor graduation statistics on lower schools?
Because money.
It's time for people to talk about the destructive effect Big Education has had on our economy. Sending generations of new workers out into the workforce already in debt up to their eyeballs to fight for low paying jobs.
It's time to stop telling all of our kids they have to go to college to make it.
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Post by DDNYjets on Jan 11, 2015 19:16:18 GMT -5
I so smaht...went to college. Can't figure out how to Google "How to fix toilet flapper". Instead, call and bother plumber at 7pm on Saturday night to do it for me. Complain about bill...because college and he's a peasant who doesn't deserve to get paid in full because he fixed it in 3 minutes. They're job creators!!!!!!!! Technically that guy did create a job for PK. |
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Post by PK on Jan 13, 2015 13:40:10 GMT -5
They're job creators!!!!!!!! Technically that guy did create a job for PK. That's not very difficult as a plumber. You know, being that everyone shits  |
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Post by sec.101row23 on Jan 13, 2015 14:12:08 GMT -5
Only 59% of people who start college graduate with a bachelors. Why hasn't the assholes in congress made this as much of an issue as they have poor graduation statistics on lower schools? Because money. It's time for people to talk about the destructive effect Big Education has had on our economy. Sending generations of new workers out into the workforce already in debt up to their eyeballs to fight for low paying jobs. It's time to stop telling all of our kids they have to go to college to make it. Another question is why has the cost of a college education gone up by nearly 80% from 2003-2013? Healthcare has increased 46% during that time, and the consumer price index has only increased 26%. Liberals want to vilify big oil, big pharma and any other industry that makes money....but why haven't we heard about the absurd costs of college and the price gauging that is happening? |
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Post by PK on Jan 13, 2015 14:15:38 GMT -5
Only 59% of people who start college graduate with a bachelors. Why hasn't the assholes in congress made this as much of an issue as they have poor graduation statistics on lower schools? Because money. It's time for people to talk about the destructive effect Big Education has had on our economy. Sending generations of new workers out into the workforce already in debt up to their eyeballs to fight for low paying jobs. It's time to stop telling all of our kids they have to go to college to make it. Another question is why has the cost of a college education gone up by nearly 80% from 2003-2013? Healthcare has increased 46% during that time, and the consumer price index has only increased 26%. Liberals want to vilify big oil, big pharma and any other industry that makes money....but why haven't we heard about the absurd costs of college and the price gauging that is happening? |
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