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Post by The Turk on May 1, 2015 1:05:45 GMT -5
VTN, if they go another 1-2 years picking defense in the 1st round, passing on comparable offensive talent, then I'll start complaining. There was no comparable offensive talent available this year. Last week, McShay released the first mock I had seen that had Williams available at 6. Though he had us taking Gurley, this was my reaction at the time: If that's the way that things actually play out..... FUCK IT I'm taking Williams. Bowles will make it work and the D-line would be unblockable. Exactly. The key phrase is compareable talent. I don't claim to be any expert but from what I've read there wasn't even a debate whether Williams was the BPA at our selection. The only debate is whether you reach for a need or not? I'm glad they didn't. They have to trust the work they did over the course of the season if they rate the guy that highly. I'd be much more worried if they reached for a sparkly combine warrior because of need.
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Post by Hotman on May 1, 2015 1:28:38 GMT -5
Mac came out and said he had offers, just none good enough. Good, dont take less value just to bail. This isnt a 1 season fantasy football draft, or fans desperate for a Super Bowl. These guys have a multi year plan. Stick with it. Good for them. I totally get how some people are disappointed in going defense again, but thats the way their board shaped up apparently, and they took the best guy that they had on their board that was still available according to reports. Blame the Raiders, blame the Redskins, dont blame Mac and Co. And dont try to say the guys not good enough to go 6th, thats ludicrous. Everyone, anyone whos anyone had him going top 5. Many teams had him top 3.
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Post by Hotman on May 1, 2015 1:32:19 GMT -5
Mac came out and said he had offers, just none good enough. Good, dont take less value just to bail. This isnt a 1 season fantasy football draft, or fans desperate for a Super Bowl. These guys have a multi year plan. Stick with it. Good for them. I totally get how some people are disappointed in going defense again, but thats the way their board shaped up apparently, and they took the best guy that they had on their board that was still available according to reports. Blame the Raiders, blame the Redskins, dont blame Mac and Co. And dont try to say the guys not good enough to go 6th, thats ludicrous. Everyone, anyone whos anyone had him going top 5. Many teams had him top 3. Go back and listen to his pre draft press conference. He specifically referenced that he has a value system. He has a value on the players, he has a value on the picks, and he weighs what the player's value is vs the pick he's being taken or the picks needed/acquired to obtain that player. If he thought Leonard Williams was worth 850 "points", felt that the #6 pick was worth 800 points then the player is worth the selection. Or in the case of a trade, say he felt that the compensation that other teams were offering (say the 8th overall pick being 600 points and a 2nd round pick being worth 100 points) that doesn't add up to the player's value that was available nor does it match what may be left when they select. That's kind of how I read into his value system. The guy has a number on everything and is very thorough about value, which is why he doesn't like picking for need because it then skews the value system. Pretty interesting, the press conference and delivery of course were boring as watching paint dry. But if you listen to his press conference "highlights" I believe they had a segment on it in there. Dude, that's nuts. I literally thought the exact same thing.
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Post by choon328 on May 1, 2015 1:42:39 GMT -5
This is a serious question. Are you letting Rex suck your toes on the side or something b/c you defend him and love him like he's paying your bills? It's a little ridiculous at this point. Here's the link to a Bills forum: BILLS FANS ONLY Have fun. very serious question: when person A does something people squeal like stuck pigs but when person B does the exact same thing, it's praised to high heaven??? VERY SERIOUS how about a little consistency once in a while? I agree but that has nothing to do with what I asked you.
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Post by vin on May 1, 2015 1:45:45 GMT -5
So....Did we win the Draft, Hitman?
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Post by vicmill on May 1, 2015 6:27:06 GMT -5
If he projects Williams to be Sapp or Suh and the top Wrs to be a Crabtree or a Bowe and the top RBs to be a Reggie Bush or Cadillac Williams and the top edge rushers to be situational guys like Bruce Irvin and your expecting a decade or more of production not just one year, then it's a no brainer. In another sport, the trailblazers took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan because they already had Clyde Drexler playing the same position. How did that work out for them?
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Post by maury77 on May 1, 2015 6:30:23 GMT -5
People were saying DL wasn't a need when ee drafted Mo, than again when wedrafted Coples than again when we drafted Sheldon. 3 out of 4 turned out pretty good. Obviously GMs don't consider need as much as you do when they make their picks. Maccagnan said as much in the presser that if all other things are equal need comes into it if not its BPA, I for one agree with him. So it's 9 then. This is in response to Turk's post. How has drafting Mo, Coples and Sheldon worked out for us? 2 out of the 3 are very good players, but our offense has continued to suck donkey balls and we have not sniffed the playoffs. I get the BPA argument for taking Williams, but unless we trade Mo, the Williams selection does not make this team better. Is Williams even going to start over Wilkerson or Richardson during the next 2 seasons? If not, did we really use the 6th pick in the draft on a depth player? Or are we going to play Williams out of position? If you want to say that Williams will take over for Mo if he leaves in the future, are we really letting Mo go without getting anything in return? This reminds me of when Matt Millen used the BPA argument to select Charles Rogers, then Mike Williams, then Roy Williams.
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Post by Brady's a catcher on May 1, 2015 6:30:45 GMT -5
I don't hate pick, or going defense again but have thought all along that an elite edge rusher would make this defense silly good. Mac has so far shown to be competent so I can only assume his grades for White and Beasley were just not close enough and he felt that Williams was clearly the bpa.I mean, in a tie or a near tie he'd go need, right? If Beasley or were an 88 and Williams is an 89?
Just have to hope Williams beasts and they still get equitable compensation for Mo somehow still
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Post by choon328 on May 1, 2015 6:55:12 GMT -5
I don't hate pick, or going defense again but have thought all along that an elite edge rusher would make this defense silly good. Mac has so far shown to be competent so I can only assume his grades for White and Beasley were just not close enough and he felt that Williams was clearly the bpa.I mean, in a tie or a near tie he'd go need, right? If Beasley or were an 88 and Williams is an 89? Just have to hope Williams beasts and they still get equitable compensation for Mo somehow still Well it wasn't close in the rankings. NFL.com had Williams as the #1 overall player by a pretty big margin and ESPN has him as the 2nd best player overall going into the draft. That's why they couldn't pass him up. I was never sold on any of the pass rushers outside of Fowler and Kevin White is limited as a route runner which concerned me. I didn't want a defensive guy either but I know why they did it. I think the problem is that a lot of people here keep focusing on need when Mac has been telling you fools from day 1 that he wasn't going to draft for need. I don't think the Jets feel like they have a pressing need at this point. They did a great job of addressing depth in the latter posts of FA in order to be able to make a move like this. I'd rather gather the best players and figure it out later. That's better then reaching for a guy like Bud Dupree at 6 who was a workout warrior just bc we need to get younger there. I'm glad Mac had the balls to stick to his guns.
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Post by jcappy on May 1, 2015 7:14:46 GMT -5
I don't hate pick, or going defense again but have thought all along that an elite edge rusher would make this defense silly good. Mac has so far shown to be competent so I can only assume his grades for White and Beasley were just not close enough and he felt that Williams was clearly the bpa.I mean, in a tie or a near tie he'd go need, right? If Beasley or were an 88 and Williams is an 89? Just have to hope Williams beasts and they still get equitable compensation for Mo somehow still Well it wasn't close in the rankings. NFL.com had Williams as the #1 overall player by a pretty big margin and ESPN has him as the 2nd best player overall going into the draft. That's why they couldn't pass him up. I was never sold on any of the pass rushers outside of Fowler and Kevin White is limited as a route runner which concerned me. I didn't want a defensive guy either but I know why they did it. I think the problem is that a lot of people here keep focusing on need when Mac has been telling you fools from day 1 that he wasn't going to draft for need. I don't think the Jets feel like they have a pressing need at this point. They did a great job of addressing depth in the latter posts of FA in order to be able to make a move like this. I'd rather gather the best players and figure it out later. That's better then reaching for a guy like Bud Dupree at 6 who was a workout warrior just bc we need to get younger there. I'm glad Mac had the balls to stick to his guns. It's Sheldon all over again. If we had reached for need we'd have someone like EJ Manuel, Jarvis Jones, Corradelle Patterson or Justin Pugh right now. Sign me up!
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Post by The Turk on May 1, 2015 7:20:15 GMT -5
This is in response to Turk's post. How has drafting Mo, Coples and Sheldon worked out for us? 2 out of the 3 are very good players, but our offense has continued to suck donkey balls and we have not sniffed the playoffs. I get the BPA argument for taking Williams, but unless we trade Mo, the Williams selection does not make this team better. Is Williams even going to start over Wilkerson or Richardson during the next 2 seasons? If not, did we really use the 6th pick in the draft on a depth player? Or are we going to play Williams out of position? If you want to say that Williams will take over for Mo if he leaves in the future, are we really letting Mo go without getting anything in return? This reminds me of when Matt Millen used the BPA argument to select Charles Rogers, then Mike Williams, then Roy Williams. Well the sad truth is our offense would have continued to suck donkey balls no matter who we picked at 6. Take WR all accounts of White said he was a one year wonder, a project. So at best he is in the slot in Kerley's place at worst he's 4th or 5th WR. Gurley is coming off a major injury and we have Ivory, powell and ridley at a position which has stedily declined in value over the course of the last decade. Granted our depth at DL is better than our depth at RB but I just don't see anyone worth taking on the offense that would justify passing on what you think to be one of the top 3 players in the draft. Mac's words not mine.
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Post by DDNYjets on May 1, 2015 7:44:15 GMT -5
So what is the deal with his shoulder?
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Post by Jets Things on May 1, 2015 7:55:30 GMT -5
So what is the deal with his shoulder? He has two, shoulderS. Plural.
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Post by jcappy on May 1, 2015 8:08:22 GMT -5
First round draft picks on our defense:
Revis, Cromartie, Milliner, Pryor, Pace, Coples, Wilkerson, Richardson, Williams
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Post by jcappy on May 1, 2015 8:11:07 GMT -5
Bills GM
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