|
Post by johnnyhector on Dec 29, 2016 17:27:54 GMT -5
You think Darron Lee and Hackenberg (who hasn't played a down) are busts? Did you think Quincy Enunwa was a bust after his rookie year? How about Bilal Powell? Brian Winters? These are arguably our 3 best players on offense and none of them showed much in their rookie seasons. You have to give players time to improve. Just because Darron Lee is not playing at Luke Kuechly's level as a rookie makes him a bust, you have to exercise a modicum of patience. Otherwise, you NEVER going to develop your young players. Let's take a look at this year's rookie class (Maccagnan's first with his own scouting department). Let's attempt to project this class by the end of the 2018 season. 1) Darron Lee - After dealing with injuries during the beginning of the year, has begun to flash as of late. Currently a starter. Already starting to show some leadership traits. Projection by the end of the 2018 season: solid ILB. Never a perennial bro bowler, but a solid player who may make the pro bowl 1 or 2x during his career. Think about a David Harris like career. 2) Hackenberg - No clue. I hated the pick. Let's assume he is going to bust just for the sake of argument. 2018 projection: a 3rd string QB on another team. 3) Jordan Jenkins - JAGish rookie season, but has begun to come on during the last few weeks. Pass rushers can take time to develop (see Dee Ford in Kansas City and Vic Beasley's rookie season). 2018 projection: solid Calvin Pace type OLB who can start and does the dirty work. 4) Juston Burris - As he has gotten playing time late in the year, he has played well (outside of the Kenny Stills TD, which can be partly blamed on the safety). 2018 projection: at worst, the starting nickel CB, but I will call him a starting #2 CB. 5) Brandon Shell - after finally getting a chance to play, he has not given up a pressure while starting the last 2 games. 2018 projection: starting RT. 6) Lachland Edwards - started well, but has cooled off. Hopefully gains more consistency with experience. 2018 projection: starting punter. 7) Charone Peake - saw some spot duty this year. Has some decent potential. 2018 projection: good 3 or 4 receiver. FA class: Robby Anderson - Put up 400 yards this season playing part time. I think he has potential as a #2 starter. All told, you are looking at potentially 3-4 above average starters out of one draft. That's a good draft. I just don't see the brilliance in that draft class. And he does not get a pass from me for last year either since he was the one making the final decisions even if his scouts weren't his own. 2 years and I am far from impressed and very disappointed in Macc. They (I said they, not we, since I hate them) needed a great GM to hit big on picks and we got Idzik the second. Sorry, we can agree to disagree. Never going to hit on every player . Go back and look at the Pats drafts their 2014 1st rd pick isn't even on the team anymore Far as Mac drafts only pics I didn't like was Harrison and Hackenburg , if you go watch Gruden working with him he says he would be surprised if he was t selected in first Round Let's look at his first draft also Rd 1 Williams Rd 2. Smith Rd 3. Mauldin Rd 4. Petty Rd 5. Harrison Rd. 7. Simon Williams - is the best player on team Smith- although he started first season off slow started to do better towards end of year until he got hurt , also he was open a lot last year fitz just couldn't get the ball to him Mauldin - he's shown flashes but also can stay on the field this year he's a 3rd rd pick and probably long term a designated pass rusher Petty - shown some flashes bit of a gunslinger who needs to work on reads and protecting the ball as a 4th rd pick wouldn't expect more then a #2 or 3 QB Harrison he's out of NFL Simon. - when he's on the field he's showing up and feel he can be a dominant NT if given time to develop, coaches agree For me he missed on 1 pick being Harrison yes other then Williams no superstars but 3-7 rd picks aren't supposed to be if they are contributing it's a good pick , That's how tanny messed up he traded away too many picks and the team had zero depth
|
|
|
Post by jets.penguin on Dec 29, 2016 18:16:59 GMT -5
He's 21 and I'm not giving up on him until he proves he's a bust. I hate that this topic always gets reduced to the "idea" of writing him off. No one's writing him off. Not yet... He's NFL career couldn't possible have started off any worse -- or maybe unsurprising -- as it did. My point, or at least the reason I drew attention to that snippet - is because it's not normal. This whole thing is fucked up, and we're all glossing over it because "hey, let the kid develop"... He was a top 50 pick. TOP 50. What GM in 21st century is allowed to blow a top 50 pick on a project to be redshirted? If Hackenburg's career was as impressive as Jaylon Smith's - we wouldn't be having this conversation. Except his was opposite. top 50. You do realize that he isnt the QB picked in the first 2 rounds that didnt play the first year? A total of 48 quarterbacks have been drafted in the first two rounds of the NFL draft since 2004. There are a number of others but I didnt include them because they threw a few passes in their rookie year. An overwhelming number of them have but there are a few exceptions and they are quite the cast of characters....lol even another Jet is on that short list, my point is it's happened before. - Kellen Clemens
- Brian Brohm
- Jimmy Clausen
- JASON CAMPBELL
- KEVIN KOLB
- PAT WHITE
I dont think people are glossing it over, I just think that many of us see that sticking this kid in behind this line isnt a recipe for success. Even when I reviewed the other 42 QB's that were drafted in the first two rounds and actually played a few games each of them had at least one pro-bowler on the O-line in front of them. I'm not saying this kid isnt going to be a bust but viewing it in a vacuum just isnt taking everything else into consideration.
|
|
|
Post by Paradis on Dec 29, 2016 18:20:45 GMT -5
I hate that this topic always gets reduced to the "idea" of writing him off. No one's writing him off. Not yet... He's NFL career couldn't possible have started off any worse -- or maybe unsurprising -- as it did. My point, or at least the reason I drew attention to that snippet - is because it's not normal. This whole thing is fucked up, and we're all glossing over it because "hey, let the kid develop"... He was a top 50 pick. TOP 50. What GM in 21st century is allowed to blow a top 50 pick on a project to be redshirted? If Hackenburg's career was as impressive as Jaylon Smith's - we wouldn't be having this conversation. Except his was opposite. top 50. You do realize that he isnt the QB picked in the first 2 rounds that didnt play the first year? A total of 48 quarterbacks have been drafted in the first two rounds of the NFL draft since 2004. There are a number of others but I didnt include them because they threw a few passes in their rookie year. An overwhelming number of them have but there are a few exceptions and they are quite the cast of characters....lol even another Jet is on that short list, my point is it's happened before. - Kellen Clemens
- Brian Brohm
- Jimmy Clausen
- JASON CAMPBELL
- KEVIN KOLB
- PAT WHITE
I dont think people are glossing it over, I just think that many of us see that sticking this kid in behind this line isnt a recipe for success. Even when I reviewed the other 42 QB's that were drafted in the first two rounds and actually played a few games each of them had at least one pro-bowler on the O-line in front of them. I'm not saying this kid isnt going to be a bust but viewing it in a vacuum just isnt taking everything else into consideration. I hate to say it - but you're reply works utterly against you. You picked examples of QBs who sucked. All of them... AND on top of this, not of them we're redshirted by the time OTAs wrapped up and stayed that way when 3 QBs went down. 3 QBs. Why on earth would you pretend this is a good thing? There's two issues here. Hacks development (TBD cross your fingers, toes and balls) and the decision to invest in zeppelin on fire. The latter IS being glossed over by posters like yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Dec 29, 2016 19:30:39 GMT -5
I hate to say it - but you're reply works utterly against you. You picked examples of QBs who sucked. All of them... AND on top of this, not of them we're redshirted by the time OTAs wrapped up and stayed that way when 3 QBs went down. 3 QBs. Why on earth would you pretend this is a good thing? There's two issues here. Hacks development (TBD cross your fingers, toes and balls) and the decision to invest in zeppelin on fire. The latter IS being glossed over by posters like yourself. I get what you're trying to say, and I agree. I'm all for "red shirting" a QB. Most rookie QBs should sit their 1st year or at least sit the first half the season. However, there is a big difference between sitting for a year and not being good enough for a decent amount of practice reps. I really hope Hack proves me wrong and succeeds, but he's the type of project you take in the later rounds. Your 2nd round pick should be able to contribute his first year. Whether it's on special teams or getting valuable reps during practice.
|
|
|
Post by HawkeyeJet on Dec 29, 2016 19:46:42 GMT -5
Devin Smith is very good on ST and people think he's a complete bust.
|
|
|
Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Dec 29, 2016 19:50:11 GMT -5
Devin Smith is very good on ST and people think he's a complete bust. Is he really? One of the few kickoffs he returned he fumbled and cost us the game. Also he's not a bust, but he's on his way partial because of health. People hated the pick because he's another huge project when there were better players available.
|
|
|
Post by HawkeyeJet on Dec 29, 2016 19:57:34 GMT -5
Devin Smith is very good on ST and people think he's a complete bust. Is he really? One of the few kickoffs he returned he fumbled and cost us the game. Also he's not a bust, but he's on his way partial because of health. People hated the pick because he's another huge project when there were better players available. Watch him on punt coverage. I think he's very good.
|
|
|
Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Dec 29, 2016 20:02:50 GMT -5
Is he really? One of the few kickoffs he returned he fumbled and cost us the game. Also he's not a bust, but he's on his way partial because of health. People hated the pick because he's another huge project when there were better players available. What him on punt coverage. I think he's very good. I think I remember him being the first man down a few times last year, but he's got to stay healthy. He's raw so he was already behind the 8 ball and his injuries are costing him valuable practice time. Hopefully, we'll have a decent idea who our QB will be after the draft and he glues himself to their hip. Next off season is make or break for him.
|
|
|
Post by jets.penguin on Dec 29, 2016 20:43:01 GMT -5
You do realize that he isnt the QB picked in the first 2 rounds that didnt play the first year? A total of 48 quarterbacks have been drafted in the first two rounds of the NFL draft since 2004. There are a number of others but I didnt include them because they threw a few passes in their rookie year. An overwhelming number of them have but there are a few exceptions and they are quite the cast of characters....lol even another Jet is on that short list, my point is it's happened before. - Kellen Clemens
- Brian Brohm
- Jimmy Clausen
- JASON CAMPBELL
- KEVIN KOLB
- PAT WHITE
I dont think people are glossing it over, I just think that many of us see that sticking this kid in behind this line isnt a recipe for success. Even when I reviewed the other 42 QB's that were drafted in the first two rounds and actually played a few games each of them had at least one pro-bowler on the O-line in front of them. I'm not saying this kid isnt going to be a bust but viewing it in a vacuum just isnt taking everything else into consideration. I hate to say it - but you're reply works utterly against you. You picked examples of QBs who sucked. All of them... AND on top of this, not of them we're redshirted by the time OTAs wrapped up and stayed that way when 3 QBs went down. 3 QBs. Why on earth would you pretend this is a good thing? There's two issues here. Hacks development (TBD cross your fingers, toes and balls) and the decision to invest in zeppelin on fire. The latter IS being glossed over by posters like yourself. This post doesnt work against me at all. I don't have an opinion on whether he will succeed or fail because he hasnt played unlike you who have already formed an opinion. You may be right or wrong but all of those QB's were redshirted their first year and ours was redshirted BY DESIGN, on purpose so it matters not that the other QB's got hurt. NONE of them took a live snap the entire season, end of story. I didnt say it's a good thing or bad thing. In fact what I said would be poor planning to put this QB behind a porous Oline. If you think that's a good plan then well that says how bad you would like to see him fail. I said forming opinions in a vacuum is stupid and it still is. Posters like you are just so used to losing that pointing out negatives are second nature and it's hard to be optimistic after so many years of abuse. You are speculating that he will fail and I am saying that he just might but if he has any chance at all it won't be behind this current line. See the difference now?
|
|
|
Post by RobR on Dec 29, 2016 20:59:34 GMT -5
Is he really? One of the few kickoffs he returned he fumbled and cost us the game. Also he's not a bust, but he's on his way partial because of health. People hated the pick because he's another huge project when there were better players available. Watch him on punt coverage. I think he's very good. Awesome. Our second round pick from last year is great at punt coverage but not so good at WR. Great pick.
|
|
|
Post by maury77 on Dec 29, 2016 21:19:48 GMT -5
Watch him on punt coverage. I think he's very good. Awesome. Our second round pick from last year is great at punt coverage but not so good at WR. Great pick. Smith has done jack shit, but we have almost received the production from Anderson (a free agent pickup) that we expected to get from Smith. Kind of funny how life works out sometimes.
|
|
|
Post by Paradis on Dec 29, 2016 21:21:51 GMT -5
I hate to say it - but you're reply works utterly against you. You picked examples of QBs who sucked. All of them... AND on top of this, not of them we're redshirted by the time OTAs wrapped up and stayed that way when 3 QBs went down. 3 QBs. Why on earth would you pretend this is a good thing? There's two issues here. Hacks development (TBD cross your fingers, toes and balls) and the decision to invest in zeppelin on fire. The latter IS being glossed over by posters like yourself. This post doesnt work against me at all. I don't have an opinion on whether he will succeed or fail because he hasnt played unlike you who have already formed an opinion. You may be right or wrong but all of those QB's were redshirted their first year and ours was redshirted BY DESIGN, on purpose so it matters not that the other QB's got hurt. NONE of them took a live snap the entire season, end of story. I didnt say it's a good thing or bad thing. In fact what I said would be poor planning to put this QB behind a porous Oline. If you think that's a good plan then well that says how bad you would like to see him fail. I said forming opinions in a vacuum is stupid and it still is. Posters like you are just so used to losing that pointing out negatives are second nature and it's hard to be optimistic after so many years of abuse. You are speculating that he will fail and I am saying that he just might but if he has any chance at all it won't be behind this current line. See the difference now? Why is this going over your head? I feel like you're deliberately ignoring the point. Hackenburg is a Jet. Maybe he works out, maybe he doesn't. No one knows for sure. Evidence is weighing heavily against him, but he's a jet so we'll see where it goes. the problem is with the "BY DESIGN" that you so eloquently caps'ed on me. That's a shit design. Pure shit. All this isn't about being sure that Hack doesn't work out. It's about decision making. It's about decision making. It's about decision making. It's about decision making. It's about decision making. It's about decision making. It's about decision making. It's about decision making. It's about decision making. It's about decision making. Are we getting anywhere yet brah? It's about decision making. We spent a top 50 pick on a player who was shit in college. And by design -- is a polite way of saying; he's shit. But we spent a lot on him, and many of you begin asking when is going to start. The answer is "awhile" because he's shitty right now. By design.
|
|
|
Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Dec 29, 2016 21:25:17 GMT -5
Smith has done jack shit, but we have almost received the production from Anderson (a free agent pickup) that we expected to get from Smith. Kind of funny how life works out sometimes. That's honestly the problem. You take one dimensional WRs in the mid to later rounds or get them as a UDFA. Smith projected to be a Kenny Stills type WR. Stills went in the 5th round. Just because you got lucky with Anderson doesn't excuse taking Smith.
|
|
|
Post by JStokes on Dec 29, 2016 21:27:22 GMT -5
We cannot afford to use 2nd round picks for guys that are good on punt coverage.
_
|
|
|
Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Dec 29, 2016 21:31:49 GMT -5
We cannot afford to use 2nd round picks for guys that are good on punt coverage. _ At this rate we'd be better off using a 2nd round pick on someone who can punt.
|
|