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Post by maury77 on Dec 29, 2016 8:12:06 GMT -5
I hate that this topic always gets reduced to the "idea" of writing him off. No one's writing him off. Not yet... He's NFL career couldn't possible have started off any worse -- or maybe unsurprising -- as it did. My point, or at least the reason I drew attention to that snippet - is because it's not normal. This whole thing is fucked up, and we're all glossing over it because "hey, let the kid develop"... He was a top 50 pick. TOP 50. What GM in 21st century is allowed to blow a top 50 pick on a project to be redshirted? If Hackenburg's career was as impressive as Jaylon Smith's - we wouldn't be having this conversation. Except his was opposite. top 50. Exactly. If he was a 5th or 6th round pick, fine. But he was a 3nd rounder picked by a GM who hasn't exactly had brilliant draft picks. He's had highly suspect drafts and so far he has looked more like a terrible evaluator of talent. He hasn't proven anything to say we should give him the benefit of the doubt when he's the only person in the NFL who actually thought to waste a second round pick on this guy. If his past picks are any example of his judgement, hack is gonna suck so bad that it will make Devin smith look like Jerry rice. You keep repeating this, so I have to ask: what are your standards to an average draft class? A good draft class?
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Post by sec.101row23 on Dec 29, 2016 8:26:47 GMT -5
He's 21 and I'm not giving up on him until he proves he's a bust. I hate that this topic always gets reduced to the "idea" of writing him off. No one's writing him off. Not yet... He's NFL career couldn't possible have started off any worse -- or maybe unsurprising -- as it did. My point, or at least the reason I drew attention to that snippet - is because it's not normal. This whole thing is fucked up, and we're all glossing over it because "hey, let the kid develop"... He was a top 50 pick. TOP 50. What GM in 21st century is allowed to blow a top 50 pick on a project to be redshirted? If Hackenburg's career was as impressive as Jaylon Smith's - we wouldn't be having this conversation. Except his was opposite. top 50. If you go back to a discussion we had at the beginning of the season about Hack, I had mentioned that I believed that Maccagnan and his talent evaluators were way off on their assessment of Hack when they drafted him. Once in camp and in pads, Hack wasn't nearly as game ready as they believed he was prior to the draft. Maccagnan was duped by some good work outs in shorts and no defenders.
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Post by Lithfan on Dec 29, 2016 8:55:01 GMT -5
He's 21 and I'm not giving up on him until he proves he's a bust. I hate that this topic always gets reduced to the "idea" of writing him off. No one's writing him off. Not yet... He's NFL career couldn't possible have started off any worse -- or maybe unsurprising -- as it did. My point, or at least the reason I drew attention to that snippet - is because it's not normal. This whole thing is fucked up, and we're all glossing over it because "hey, let the kid develop"... He was a top 50 pick. TOP 50. What GM in 21st century is allowed to blow a top 50 pick on a project to be redshirted? If Hackenburg's career was as impressive as Jaylon Smith's - we wouldn't be having this conversation. Except his was opposite. top 50. Assuming Hack does not get in the game this weekend, he will be the 3rd 2nd round QB since 2000 to get a "redshirt" season. The other two: Brian Brohm of the Packers in 2008 and Drew Stanton of the Lions in 2007. Not sure what that means in the context of Hack, but your comment made me curious to see if it had been done and by whom.
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Post by JetRepulsion1 on Dec 29, 2016 9:07:34 GMT -5
Exactly. If he was a 5th or 6th round pick, fine. But he was a 3nd rounder picked by a GM who hasn't exactly had brilliant draft picks. He's had highly suspect drafts and so far he has looked more like a terrible evaluator of talent. He hasn't proven anything to say we should give him the benefit of the doubt when he's the only person in the NFL who actually thought to waste a second round pick on this guy. If his past picks are any example of his judgement, hack is gonna suck so bad that it will make Devin smith look like Jerry rice. You keep repeating this, so I have to ask: what are your standards to an average draft class? A good draft class? Darron Lee? Hackensuck? Devin Smith? 1 current and 2 very soon to be busts. His other picks have stunk too. Signing mo, signing fitz to for 13 mil. Look at the roster? Old losers and young talentless malcontents. Terrible. Sorry, but if that's picking good players then I'm sorry. Everyone in the NFL knows we have one of he worst rosters in the league. Look at the final product on the field? Unwatchable, complete crap.
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Post by TRUE Jet Fan on Dec 29, 2016 10:38:23 GMT -5
You keep repeating this, so I have to ask: what are your standards to an average draft class? A good draft class? Darron Lee? Hackensuck? Devin Smith? 1 current and 2 very soon to be busts. His other picks have stunk too. Signing mo, signing fitz to for 13 mil. Look at the roster? Old losers and young talentless malcontents. Terrible. Sorry, but if that's picking good players then I'm sorry. Everyone in the NFL knows we have one of he worst rosters in the league. Look at the final product on the field? Unwatchable, complete crap. Total bullshit. This is a GREAT roster. Top ten on paper, easily. The problem has been and always will be THE COACH. Don't blame the players, the GM, or the owner. We are easily top third in the league in each of those categories. BLAME THE COACH.
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Post by Paradis on Dec 29, 2016 12:34:38 GMT -5
I hate that this topic always gets reduced to the "idea" of writing him off. No one's writing him off. Not yet... He's NFL career couldn't possible have started off any worse -- or maybe unsurprising -- as it did. My point, or at least the reason I drew attention to that snippet - is because it's not normal. This whole thing is fucked up, and we're all glossing over it because "hey, let the kid develop"... He was a top 50 pick. TOP 50. What GM in 21st century is allowed to blow a top 50 pick on a project to be redshirted? If Hackenburg's career was as impressive as Jaylon Smith's - we wouldn't be having this conversation. Except his was opposite. top 50. Assuming Hack does not get in the game this weekend, he will be the 3rd 2nd round QB since 2000 to get a "redshirt" season. The other two: Brian Brohm of the Packers in 2008 and Drew Stanton of the Lions in 2007. Not sure what that means in the context of Hack, but your comment made me curious to see if it had been done and by whom. And we can see how much those "development redshirt" years paid off for both of them, hey? Anyway, we're just days away from turning the page. Can't come fast enough.
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Post by Paradis on Dec 29, 2016 12:36:14 GMT -5
I hate that this topic always gets reduced to the "idea" of writing him off. No one's writing him off. Not yet... He's NFL career couldn't possible have started off any worse -- or maybe unsurprising -- as it did. My point, or at least the reason I drew attention to that snippet - is because it's not normal. This whole thing is fucked up, and we're all glossing over it because "hey, let the kid develop"... He was a top 50 pick. TOP 50. What GM in 21st century is allowed to blow a top 50 pick on a project to be redshirted? If Hackenburg's career was as impressive as Jaylon Smith's - we wouldn't be having this conversation. Except his was opposite. top 50. If you go back to a discussion we had at the beginning of the season about Hack, I had mentioned that I believed that Maccagnan and his talent evaluators were way off on their assessment of Hack when they drafted him. Once in camp and in pads, Hack wasn't nearly as game ready as they believed he was prior to the draft. Maccagnan was duped by some good work outs in shorts and no defenders. Which is fine... well not fine, but you what know mean. Live and learn... I'm calling for the learn part though. It may not be realistic, but I want Macc to stand up and in some manner say - my bad. Otherwise, I'm to believe he's still steeped in his own ego.
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Post by DowNY on Dec 29, 2016 12:48:54 GMT -5
So all Mac has to do is say "we're gonna red shirt him" and the pick is excused? So what if we take a OT next year in the top who Mac says we're gonna red shirt him. Would that fine? I mean, we do not have a good enough Oline to take early then red shirt. The premise of taking Hack was that we had Geno & Petty in front of him & was still unclear with Fitz situation at the time. Of course you can't predict injuries & stuff but even without Fitz being here, Hack was going to be the 3rd QB all year. Bringing back Fitz made Hack a lock to not see the field this year.
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Post by jetitbe on Dec 29, 2016 12:51:45 GMT -5
Which is fine... well not fine, but you what know mean. Live and learn... I'm calling for the learn part though. It may not be realistic, but I want Macc to stand up and in some manner say - my bad. Otherwise, I'm to believe he's still steeped in his own ego. Look, I'm not going to get into a pissing match, because you probably are right, and Hackenberg is probably going to be a huge bust and will probably eventually get the GM fired. Still, don't you think it's just a little bit silly to expect him to come out and say "my bad" on the pick before the guy ever even takes a snap from center in a regular-season NFL game? And, if you don't mean it literally, what do you suppose he should do? Release him on Jan. 2?
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Post by Paradis on Dec 29, 2016 13:27:18 GMT -5
Which is fine... well not fine, but you what know mean. Live and learn... I'm calling for the learn part though. It may not be realistic, but I want Macc to stand up and in some manner say - my bad. Otherwise, I'm to believe he's still steeped in his own ego. Look, I'm not going to get into a pissing match, because you probably are right, and Hackenberg is probably going to be a huge bust and will probably eventually get the GM fired. Still, don't you think it's just a little bit silly to expect him to come out and say "my bad" on the pick before the guy ever even takes a snap from center in a regular-season NFL game? And, if you don't mean it literally, what do you suppose he should do? Release him on Jan. 2? I totally don't expect it... but the difference in him saying "He's not where we want him to be, and we're going to have to take another look at how we're doing things" is a possibility. It does happen in the industry from time to time. That would mean the WORLD to some and honestly? Buy him patience and leash.
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Post by maury77 on Dec 29, 2016 16:35:51 GMT -5
You keep repeating this, so I have to ask: what are your standards to an average draft class? A good draft class? Darron Lee? Hackensuck? Devin Smith? 1 current and 2 very soon to be busts. His other picks have stunk too. Signing mo, signing fitz to for 13 mil. Look at the roster? Old losers and young talentless malcontents. Terrible. Sorry, but if that's picking good players then I'm sorry. Everyone in the NFL knows we have one of he worst rosters in the league. Look at the final product on the field? Unwatchable, complete crap. You think Darron Lee and Hackenberg (who hasn't played a down) are busts? Did you think Quincy Enunwa was a bust after his rookie year? How about Bilal Powell? Brian Winters? These are arguably our 3 best players on offense and none of them showed much in their rookie seasons. You have to give players time to improve. Just because Darron Lee is not playing at Luke Kuechly's level as a rookie makes him a bust, you have to exercise a modicum of patience. Otherwise, you NEVER going to develop your young players. Let's take a look at this year's rookie class (Maccagnan's first with his own scouting department). Let's attempt to project this class by the end of the 2018 season. 1) Darron Lee - After dealing with injuries during the beginning of the year, has begun to flash as of late. Currently a starter. Already starting to show some leadership traits. Projection by the end of the 2018 season: solid ILB. Never a perennial bro bowler, but a solid player who may make the pro bowl 1 or 2x during his career. Think about a David Harris like career. 2) Hackenberg - No clue. I hated the pick. Let's assume he is going to bust just for the sake of argument. 2018 projection: a 3rd string QB on another team. 3) Jordan Jenkins - JAGish rookie season, but has begun to come on during the last few weeks. Pass rushers can take time to develop (see Dee Ford in Kansas City and Vic Beasley's rookie season). 2018 projection: solid Calvin Pace type OLB who can start and does the dirty work. 4) Juston Burris - As he has gotten playing time late in the year, he has played well (outside of the Kenny Stills TD, which can be partly blamed on the safety). 2018 projection: at worst, the starting nickel CB, but I will call him a starting #2 CB. 5) Brandon Shell - after finally getting a chance to play, he has not given up a pressure while starting the last 2 games. 2018 projection: starting RT. 6) Lachland Edwards - started well, but has cooled off. Hopefully gains more consistency with experience. 2018 projection: starting punter. 7) Charone Peake - saw some spot duty this year. Has some decent potential. 2018 projection: good 3 or 4 receiver. FA class: Robby Anderson - Put up 400 yards this season playing part time. I think he has potential as a #2 starter. All told, you are looking at potentially 3-4 above average starters out of one draft. That's a good draft.
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Post by JetRepulsion1 on Dec 29, 2016 17:01:34 GMT -5
Darron Lee? Hackensuck? Devin Smith? 1 current and 2 very soon to be busts. His other picks have stunk too. Signing mo, signing fitz to for 13 mil. Look at the roster? Old losers and young talentless malcontents. Terrible. Sorry, but if that's picking good players then I'm sorry. Everyone in the NFL knows we have one of he worst rosters in the league. Look at the final product on the field? Unwatchable, complete crap. You think Darron Lee and Hackenberg (who hasn't played a down) are busts? Did you think Quincy Enunwa was a bust after his rookie year? How about Bilal Powell? Brian Winters? These are arguably our 3 best players on offense and none of them showed much in their rookie seasons. You have to give players time to improve. Just because Darron Lee is not playing at Luke Kuechly's level as a rookie makes him a bust, you have to exercise a modicum of patience. Otherwise, you NEVER going to develop your young players. Let's take a look at this year's rookie class (Maccagnan's first with his own scouting department). Let's attempt to project this class by the end of the 2018 season. 1) Darron Lee - After dealing with injuries during the beginning of the year, has begun to flash as of late. Currently a starter. Already starting to show some leadership traits. Projection by the end of the 2018 season: solid ILB. Never a perennial bro bowler, but a solid player who may make the pro bowl 1 or 2x during his career. Think about a David Harris like career. 2) Hackenberg - No clue. I hated the pick. Let's assume he is going to bust just for the sake of argument. 2018 projection: a 3rd string QB on another team. 3) Jordan Jenkins - JAGish rookie season, but has begun to come on during the last few weeks. Pass rushers can take time to develop (see Dee Ford in Kansas City and Vic Beasley's rookie season). 2018 projection: solid Calvin Pace type OLB who can start and does the dirty work. 4) Juston Burris - As he has gotten playing time late in the year, he has played well (outside of the Kenny Stills TD, which can be partly blamed on the safety). 2018 projection: at worst, the starting nickel CB, but I will call him a starting #2 CB. 5) Brandon Shell - after finally getting a chance to play, he has not given up a pressure while starting the last 2 games. 2018 projection: starting RT. 6) Lachland Edwards - started well, but has cooled off. Hopefully gains more consistency with experience. 2018 projection: starting punter. 7) Charone Peake - saw some spot duty this year. Has some decent potential. 2018 projection: good 3 or 4 receiver. FA class: Robby Anderson - Put up 400 yards this season playing part time. I think he has potential as a #2 starter. All told, you are looking at potentially 3-4 above average starters out of one draft. That's a good draft. I just don't see the brilliance in that draft class. And he does not get a pass from me for last year either since he was the one making the final decisions even if his scouts weren't his own. 2 years and I am far from impressed and very disappointed in Macc. They (I said they, not we, since I hate them) needed a great GM to hit big on picks and we got Idzik the second. Sorry, we can agree to disagree.
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Post by DowNY on Dec 29, 2016 17:03:35 GMT -5
If Hackenberg becomes the QB of the future next year, I hope this thread is bumped for a crow eating contest.
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Post by JStokes on Dec 29, 2016 17:03:48 GMT -5
Darron Lee? Hackensuck? Devin Smith? 1 current and 2 very soon to be busts. His other picks have stunk too. Signing mo, signing fitz to for 13 mil. Look at the roster? Old losers and young talentless malcontents. Terrible. Sorry, but if that's picking good players then I'm sorry. Everyone in the NFL knows we have one of he worst rosters in the league. Look at the final product on the field? Unwatchable, complete crap. You think Darron Lee and Hackenberg (who hasn't played a down) are busts? Did you think Quincy Enunwa was a bust after his rookie year? How about Bilal Powell? Brian Winters? These are arguably our 3 best players on offense and none of them showed much in their rookie seasons. You have to give players time to improve. Just because Darron Lee is not playing at Luke Kuechly's level as a rookie makes him a bust, you have to exercise a modicum of patience. Otherwise, you NEVER going to develop your young players. Let's take a look at this year's rookie class (Maccagnan's first with his own scouting department). Let's attempt to project this class by the end of the 2018 season. 1) Darron Lee - After dealing with injuries during the beginning of the year, has begun to flash as of late. Currently a starter. Already starting to show some leadership traits. Projection by the end of the 2018 season: solid ILB. Never a perennial bro bowler, but a solid player who may make the pro bowl 1 or 2x during his career. Think about a David Harris like career. 2) Hackenberg - No clue. I hated the pick. Let's assume he is going to bust just for the sake of argument. 2018 projection: a 3rd string QB on another team. 3) Jordan Jenkins - JAGish rookie season, but has begun to come on during the last few weeks. Pass rushers can take time to develop (see Dee Ford in Kansas City and Vic Beasley's rookie season). 2018 projection: solid Calvin Pace type OLB who can start and does the dirty work. 4) Juston Burris - As he has gotten playing time late in the year, he has played well (outside of the Kenny Stills TD, which can be partly blamed on the safety). 2018 projection: at worst, the starting nickel CB, but I will call him a starting #2 CB. 5) Brandon Shell - after finally getting a chance to play, he has not given up a pressure while starting the last 2 games. 2018 projection: starting RT. 6) Lachland Edwards - started well, but has cooled off. Hopefully gains more consistency with experience. 2018 projection: starting punter. 7) Charone Peake - saw some spot duty this year. Has some decent potential. 2018 projection: good 3 or 4 receiver. FA class: Robby Anderson - Put up 400 yards this season playing part time. I think he has potential as a #2 starter. All told, you are looking at potentially 3-4 above average starters out of one draft. That's a good draft. Good write up. Bonus that Robbie wasn't a draft pick and I think we'Il get production out of Jalin Marshall next year too. _
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Post by DowNY on Dec 29, 2016 17:04:15 GMT -5
You know what's gonna happen. Jets will sign Mike Glennon & Hackenberg is going to beat him & Petty out in camp. It was written.
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