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Post by jetssjumets on Jan 11, 2015 22:01:47 GMT -5
What exactly have SparklePony and Peyton won recently? And Brees and Rodgers haven't had great success in the playoffs in recent years. Amazingly enough, the QB isn't the only player that matters. A complete team clicking at the right time is much more important, it would seem, to postseason success. Obviously, having a top notch QB makes things easier, but it is certainly no guarantee of success. If it were, the likes of Eli and Flacco wouldn't have Superbowl rings. And, if you even want to put Luck into the elite category, what the hell have the Colts done with him? Win a shitty division by default only to inevitably get tossed out on their asses in the playoffs? If that's success, I want no part of it. As predictable as it being hot in July, Peyton Manning shits the bed again in the playoffs. 17 seasons and 1 SB (3 appearances). As I continue to say, the greatest regular season QB in history. So glad this horse face punk did not end up on the Jets. The frustration would've killed all of us by now. Say what you want about Sanchez, but come playoff time he had balls and won unlike gutless P. Manning. His last 2 playoff games have been bad....very bad ( and 4 out of his last 5 playoff games).
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Post by astoria on Jan 12, 2015 0:19:51 GMT -5
The more years I watch football, the more I believe that elite QBs are 75% "born", 25% "made".
Guys like Luck, Rodgers fell in with organizations that have recently had success at the QB position and have had the infrastructure in place to develop a quarterback properly. I don't think either of those guys would be as good as they are today without the path towards organizational stability being paved by Peyton and Favre, respectively. They might be 3/4 what they are now, but that extra 25% that pushes them into elite status comes from the organization.
SparklePony is the exception, the Pastriots were a perennial laughingstock until systemic, illegal organizational cheating allowed them the stability to develop him.
But with all other "elite" quarterbacks, there is some modicum of infrastructure already in place. It's no coincidence that quarterbacks who go to expansion franchises (David Carr) never turn out well, nor do quarterbacks who go to the teams that cycle through the league garbage dumps year after year (Browns, Jaguars, Raiders). Unfortunately when it comes to quarterback development, we fall into that latter group.
We simply wouldn't develop a guy properly if we got one. Sanchez could have been a league average player - he was soiled into a soapy mess. Pennington could have been a top 5 QB - he was top 15, maybe top 10 when we could keep him healthy. I simply have no confidence that we could take a Mariota level player and help him reach his full potential. What we would end up with is a stripped down version of his potential, circled voraciously by the jackals in the media.
It's depressing, but I don't see how we can break the cycle until we have either an organization-wide shift in philosophy towards offense (for some reason a team named the Jets is the last to acknowledge that this is now an aerial league) or we get an absolute top guy like Luck one year and his 75% is still enough to give us some organizational stability and ability to develop the next guy along. Most of us will be dead by then.
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Post by jetitbe on Jan 12, 2015 0:46:37 GMT -5
If you just look at the AFC playoffs this year, it shows how important it is to have one of the top QBs. The six best QBs in the AFC, in no particular order, were Tom Brady, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger and Philip Rivers. The only one who didn't make the playoffs was Rivers, and he just narrowly missed out despite playing the last month or so of the season with a bulging disk in his back. The only QB who made the playoffs without being among the conference's top five was Andy Dalton. And he has A.J. Green, two very good running backs and a strong defense.
You can make the playoffs without a top-six QB in the conference, and even make a nice run that way, like we did with Sanchez, but the odds are heavily stacked against it happening.
Our new GM and coach might have a tough first draft decision on their hands, should Jameis Winston be available at No. 6 (which I don't think will happen). If it does, though, will they have the balls to take a gamble like that?
Right now, what percentage chance would you put on Geno being the opening-day starter next season?
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Post by joepnyj1 on Jan 12, 2015 8:18:37 GMT -5
If you just look at the AFC playoffs this year, it shows how important it is to have one of the top QBs. The six best QBs in the AFC, in no particular order, were Tom SparklePony, Andrew Luck, Peyton Forehead, Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger and Philip Rivers. The only one who didn't make the playoffs was Rivers, and he just narrowly missed out despite playing the last month or so of the season with a bulging disk in his back. The only QB who made the playoffs without being among the conference's top five was Andy Dalton. And he has A.J. Green, two very good running backs and a strong defense. You can make the playoffs without a top-six QB in the conference, and even make a nice run that way, like we did with Sanchez, but the odds are heavily stacked against it happening. Our new GM and coach might have a tough first draft decision on their hands, should Jameis Winston be available at No. 6 (which I don't think will happen). If it does, though, will they have the balls to take a gamble like that? Right now, what percentage chance would you put on Geno being the opening-day starter next season? I think there is a good chance Geno is the starter next year. Especially if Kyle Shanahan is the OC. If that materializes we will finally have an OC that is in sync with his head coach and I think his QB friendly system might make Geno into a better QB...look at what he did with RG3 and Hoyer? That being said it is very likely that the Jets do draft a QB this year...a guy that has potential but needs some development. But the key here is Shanahan, if he and Quinn come over that's a coup IMO.
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Post by gangrene on Jan 12, 2015 8:59:12 GMT -5
We will continue to change GMs, head coaches, offensive coordinators, etc. but it won't matter....until we have a true Top 10 QB. Because if you don't have one of those guys you're not winning the Super Bowl, it just seems like a fact. I honestly believe that the coach is less important than the GM and scouting staff. It's about finding players in the draft and good value second tier free agents.But you're right without that quality qb the coach can only get a team so far. I'm surprised that teams are not putting more resources into specifically developing and scouting qbs. The teams with the top ten qbs need the other 22 teams as entertainment on the way to the playoffs. Every year it seems like some team with a talented roster but a servicable qb makes an honourable exit in the playoffs. This year is Andy Dalton, you could argue that Cam Newton despite the early promise falls into that category. To me the difference between the good qbs and the great ones is the ability to read defenses, and an obsession with detail. Geno, like a lot of qbs, given time to throw the ball against a mediocre secondary will look like a pro bowl player. Facing a top secondary and a little pressure, he looks like crap. I want Winston in the draft but even if he falls I don't see the Jets drafting him, The Texans scouting seems to be from the Rex Ryan school of team visualization. Focus on defensive talent to create turnovers and get a game manager qb. Mariota has a shot but he needs time to develop, I'd sit him on the bench for at least a year. Mobile qb's burn out in this league - What ever happens in training camp it sure as hell looks like Geno Smith will be given every chance to win the starting job.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jan 12, 2015 9:07:45 GMT -5
Take away Brady and Bellichick is Kotite.
One day, we'll catch lightning in a bottle and have a franchise QB, and everyone can go suck our collective dicks.
Until then, I'm....ooooh a squirrel!
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Post by gangrene on Jan 12, 2015 9:08:18 GMT -5
Backing up Jetstream's argument - familiar quotes from Bills fans on hearing Rex Ryan has been hired to coach the bills.
"The media and the players will love him, and if we're going to struggle — and rest assured, until we find a QB we will struggle, even if we hire Vince Lombardi — that is good enough for me," said Craig Wittlin, 48, a Bills fan from Pittsford.
"Think about Marv Levy, a guy who was at his best mediocre as a coach for 25 years until he stumbled into a situation with a quarterback (Jim Kelly) and was magically transformed into a Hall-of-Fame genius," said Wittlin, an attorney for Harter, Secrest & Emery.
"Frankly, I don't think the coach really matters much at all, unless he has a pro bowl QB hiding in the trunk of his car. Teams with quarterbacks win. Teams without QBs lose."
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kuntysoze
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Post by kuntysoze on Jan 12, 2015 9:21:19 GMT -5
It seems that pro sports in general are becoming increasingly dependent on one or a small handful of players. In the NHL, you can make a deep playoff run with a crap team, so long as you have a top goalie. In basketball, it's almost impossible to win a title unless you have 2-3 megastars, now that super teams are the norm. In football, it's obvious that the QB is what matters most, although you can occasionally win with a top defense and game manager QB.
It seems that baseball is the lone exception, since you still need a combination of both good pitching and a halfway decent lineup to make a WS run. It's the least individualized sport out there, although you still need at least 2-3 above-average starters to even have a shot.
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Post by Peebag on Jan 12, 2015 11:41:16 GMT -5
You do need a complete team to play good ball but you ain't gonna win squat with below average qb play which is what we've had since I can remember and I'm an old man
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