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Post by Trades on Aug 17, 2021 14:16:54 GMT -5
No but they weren't properly vetted as these people won't be. I'm glad you read half of the Twat. What do you mean they weren't properly vetted? I'm genuinely curious. Who came in and what were the standards for them to get in? Who exactly are you referring to by "they"? He was talking about the 9/11 hijackers. The Twat says that we didn't learn from 9/11 and are about to allow thousands of refugees into the country without vetting them. The 9/11 hijackers weren't properly vetted when they came into the country, tracked when they skipped on their visas, enrolled in flight school when on tourist visas, etc. So they are implying that the same could come out of the 30k or so refugees that are being imported. govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/staff_statements/staff_statement_1.pdf |
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Post by nyjetsfan11 on Aug 17, 2021 14:17:01 GMT -5
I'm trying to understand the prevailing logic here.
Trump said we've been there long enough and spent a lot of money, let's bring the troops home. Makes Deal with Taliban.
Biden follows through, the Taliban overtake the country in a matter of weeks
I ask: would trump have invested more time and money back into the war, going back on his initial word? Especially after seeing that 20 years and trillions of USD was defeated by a few weeks of withdrawal?
Because you realize, even if Trump "bombed them" and kept them at bay, once he would withdraw again, the same thing would happen right? Don't you guys get it, Military force CANNOT defeat the Taliban. I'm sorry, as much as you think if we just drop a few more bombs, send a few more soldiers. 20 YEARS and TRILLIONS DEFEATED IN WEEKS. There's nothing Trump or Obama, or Biden, or Bush can do. Not with military force, I'm sorry. The British couldn't do it, the soviets couldn't do it, and the entire western world couldn't do it ini 20 years with the most advanced tech on the planet. Stop making this partisan.
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Post by nyjetsfan11 on Aug 17, 2021 14:18:24 GMT -5
What do you mean they weren't properly vetted? I'm genuinely curious. Who came in and what were the standards for them to get in? Who exactly are you referring to by "they"? He was talking about the 9/11 hijackers. The Twat says that we didn't learn from 9/11 and are about to allow thousands of refugees into the country without vetting them. The 9/11 hijackers weren't properly vetted when they came into the country, tracked when they skipped on their visas, enrolled in flight school when on tourist visas, etc. So they are implying that the same could come out of the 30k or so refugees that are being imported. govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/staff_statements/staff_statement_1.pdfI would imagine the standards then <<<<<<<<<< than the standards now. Do you know how hard it is just to get a tourist visa to the US if you're from one of the nations? The amount of documentation and proof and money spent, and most still get rejected. |
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Post by DDNYjets on Aug 17, 2021 14:37:40 GMT -5
I'm trying to understand the prevailing logic here. Trump said we've been there long enough and spent a lot of money, let's bring the troops home. Makes Deal with Taliban. Biden follows through, the Taliban overtake the country in a matter of weeks I ask: would trump have invested more time and money back into the war, going back on his initial word? Especially after seeing that 20 years and trillions of USD was defeated by a few weeks of withdrawal? Because you realize, even if Trump "bombed them" and kept them at bay, once he would withdraw again, the same thing would happen right? Don't you guys get it, Military force CANNOT defeat the Taliban. I'm sorry, as much as you think if we just drop a few more bombs, send a few more soldiers. 20 YEARS and TRILLIONS DEFEATED IN WEEKS. There's nothing Trump or Obama, or Biden, or Bush can do. Not with military force, I'm sorry. The British couldn't do it, the soviets couldn't do it, and the entire western world couldn't do it ini 20 years with the most advanced tech on the planet. Stop making this partisan. We all agree that Afghanistan would have fallen eventually. And we all agree that we need to get out of there. That is not what the argument is about. The issue is the nearly 10k Americans left behind. That is what the clusterfuck is about. That is what could have been avoided. That is where the failure is. The failure isnt wanting to leave or leaving. The failure is our natsec and diplomatic experts, our generals, etc. Biden is what he has been for almost 50 years. So the bar is low for him. And he couldnt even meet that. We were told the adults were back in charge. If you want to compare Trump and Biden then I think there is no way in hell the Taliban does what it did if Trump was in office. Because they saw what he did with Soleimani. We basically have the guy who vaporized Soleimani versus the guy who was part of the Bergdhal and Benghazi administration. |
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Post by Trades on Aug 17, 2021 14:45:27 GMT -5
I'm trying to understand the prevailing logic here. Trump said we've been there long enough and spent a lot of money, let's bring the troops home. Makes Deal with Taliban. Biden follows through, the Taliban overtake the country in a matter of weeks I ask: would trump have invested more time and money back into the war, going back on his initial word? Especially after seeing that 20 years and trillions of USD was defeated by a few weeks of withdrawal? Because you realize, even if Trump "bombed them" and kept them at bay, once he would withdraw again, the same thing would happen right? Don't you guys get it, Military force CANNOT defeat the Taliban. I'm sorry, as much as you think if we just drop a few more bombs, send a few more soldiers. 20 YEARS and TRILLIONS DEFEATED IN WEEKS. There's nothing Trump or Obama, or Biden, or Bush can do. Not with military force, I'm sorry. The British couldn't do it, the soviets couldn't do it, and the entire western world couldn't do it ini 20 years with the most advanced tech on the planet. Stop making this partisan. We all agree that Afghanistan would have fallen eventually. And we all agree that we need to get out of there. That is not what the argument is about. The issue is the nearly 10k Americans left behind. That is what the clusterfuck is about. That is what could have been avoided. That is where the failure is. The failure isnt wanting to leave or leaving. The failure is our natsec and diplomatic experts, our generals, etc. Biden is what he has been for almost 50 years. So the bar is low for him. And he couldnt even meet that. We were told the adults were back in charge. If you want to compare Trump and Biden then I think there is no way in hell the Taliban does what it did if Trump was in office. Because they saw what he did with Soleimani. We basically have the guy who vaporized Soleimani versus the guy who was part of the Bergdhal and Benghazi administration. I think we all also agree that there is corruption on both sides that caused this to go on as long as it did. Bush/Obama and Biden plus many senators (and remember it is the Senate not the President that should be declaring was based on our constitution under Article I, Section 8, Clause 11). Just because our spineless senate has abdicated many of their responsibilities doesn't mean that many people don't see them for who they are on both sides of the aisle. |
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Post by nyjetsfan11 on Aug 17, 2021 14:48:38 GMT -5
We all agree that Afghanistan would have fallen eventually. And we all agree that we need to get out of there. That is not what the argument is about. The issue is the nearly 10k Americans left behind. That is what the clusterfuck is about. That is what could have been avoided. That is where the failure is. The failure isnt wanting to leave or leaving. The failure is our natsec and diplomatic experts, our generals, etc. Biden is what he has been for almost 50 years. So the bar is low for him. And he couldnt even meet that. We were told the adults were back in charge. If you want to compare Trump and Biden then I think there is no way in hell the Taliban does what it did if Trump was in office. Because they saw what he did with Soleimani. We basically have the guy who vaporized Soleimani versus the guy who was part of the Bergdhal and Benghazi administration. I think we all also agree that there is corruption on both sides that caused this to go on as long as it did. Bush/Obama and Biden plus many senators (and remember it is the Senate not the President that should be declaring was based on our constitution under Article I, Section 8, Clause 11). Just because our spineless senate has abdicated many of their responsibilities doesn't mean that many people don't see them for who they are on both sides of the aisle. Yes, I agree, and that's my point. But this topic has seemed to take a purely partisan turn. Trump would do this Obama would have done that. All just empty anger about hypothetical situations which we will never know the answer to. |
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Post by Ff2 on Aug 17, 2021 14:49:59 GMT -5
I think we all also agree that there is corruption on both sides that caused this to go on as long as it did. Bush/Obama and Biden plus many senators (and remember it is the Senate not the President that should be declaring was based on our constitution under Article I, Section 8, Clause 11). Just because our spineless senate has abdicated many of their responsibilities doesn't mean that many people don't see them for who they are on both sides of the aisle. This topic has seemed to take a purely partisan turn. Trump would do this Obama would have done that. All just empty anger about hypothetical situations which we will never know the answer to. Welcome to the internet. |
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Post by nyjetsfan11 on Aug 17, 2021 14:56:35 GMT -5
This topic has seemed to take a purely partisan turn. Trump would do this Obama would have done that. All just empty anger about hypothetical situations which we will never know the answer to. Welcome to the internet.  touche |
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Post by Ff2 on Aug 17, 2021 15:10:04 GMT -5
People need to stop acting as if there is a clean way out of a war you LOSE. It's always gonna be a humanitarian shit show. Its WAR.
Also, we'll be back. We never learn our lessons.
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Post by Trades on Aug 17, 2021 15:35:56 GMT -5
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Post by Trades on Aug 17, 2021 15:39:15 GMT -5
People need to stop acting as if there is a clean way out of a war you LOSE. It's always gonna be a humanitarian shit show. Its WAR. Also, we'll be back. We never learn our lessons. I think the initial war was won in the first week. Then mission creep came in along with the desire to make cavemen understand and want democracy. That mission was lost. |
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Post by 2foolish on Aug 17, 2021 15:57:23 GMT -5
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Post by jay57 on Aug 17, 2021 16:01:02 GMT -5
I think we all also agree that there is corruption on both sides that caused this to go on as long as it did. Bush/Obama and Biden plus many senators (and remember it is the Senate not the President that should be declaring was based on our constitution under Article I, Section 8, Clause 11). Just because our spineless senate has abdicated many of their responsibilities doesn't mean that many people don't see them for who they are on both sides of the aisle. Yes, I agree, and that's my point. But this topic has seemed to take a purely partisan turn. Trump would do this Obama would have done that. All just empty anger about hypothetical situations which we will never know the answer to. Ok fine. Buck stops with the commander in chief. The president's job is to oversee the management of the withdrawal. He fucked it up. Enough said.
Would Trump have fucked it up as badly? We'll never know, but I doubt it.
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Post by nyjetsfan11 on Aug 17, 2021 16:03:09 GMT -5
People need to stop acting as if there is a clean way out of a war you LOSE. It's always gonna be a humanitarian shit show. Its WAR. Also, we'll be back. We never learn our lessons. I think the initial war was won in the first week. Then mission creep came in along with the desire to make cavemen understand and want democracy. That mission was lost. Which goes with military force alone was never going to work. And although some of them are literal "cavemen," a big problem they have there is infrastructure, connecting provinces due to the terrain, and establishing a national identity. The Afghan borders were made by the British, and many Afghans care far more about tribal identity than "Afghan" identity. If you look it up, you'll see polls in which I think it was 90% of Afghan men had never even heard of the 9/11 attacks. They live in the desert and mountains dawg, far from each other, in tribes. So the idea that the US would come in, drop bombs, and unite/democratize the country in the first place is just laughable. But hey, it got a lot of dems and repubs rich so yay for that. Also I don't know if by cavemen you think they're stupid. Because I dont think idiots could fend off the entire Western Hemisphere, not to mention the soviets |
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Post by nyjetsfan11 on Aug 17, 2021 16:05:06 GMT -5
I'm more worried about the US leaving these behind. Just wait till the Taliban is ripped as shit. Talibuns of steel, just wait bro. This is by far the biggest military blunder of the past century. |
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