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Post by thebigragu on Jan 5, 2015 13:03:21 GMT -5
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Post by Trades on Jan 5, 2015 14:22:14 GMT -5
I really wanted him to answer my question about other conspiracy theories but he ran away instead. |
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Post by DDNYjets on Jan 5, 2015 17:48:09 GMT -5
I am all for conspiracy theories like the JFK assassination but anybody that thinks 9/11 was an inside job is a fucking moran. No offense to morans.
As flushing pointed out steel loses its integrity under high temps and the fireproofing on those beams was piss poor. All you needed was a couple of floors to collapse and then the building would have collapsed under its own weight like it did. That is how they are designed.
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Post by Trades on Jan 7, 2015 9:47:07 GMT -5
There are a lot of stupid/gullible people in the world.
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Post by Bavarian on Jan 7, 2015 20:00:13 GMT -5
Why the hell did I click on this thread. Bavar might be out of this thread, but I wish he'd explain further this sentence he posted- "Two laws of physics were violated and the melting of steel beams magically took place from jet fuel/kerosene of which most was dissipated upon impact. " What two laws were broken, and what steel melted? Are you implying some steel from the WTC towers turned from a solid in to a liquid? I'm a structural engineer. In addition to engineering, I also minored in physics and mathematics. My job involves the design of force resisting systems. I have an intimate knowledge of the mechanics of materials. . In addition to designing hurricane and earthquake resistant structures, I also work at designing blast resistant structures. If you have some questions about physics or steel structures, please ask. I am impressed with your background Mr. L. While I am not in the same profession as yourself my dad ran his own mechanical engineering business for nearly 40 years and working for him in a part time capacity I gained a cursory knowledge of metallurgy and metallic properties. Additionally, I worked at 2 WTC, Floors 25/26 for several years up until the morning of its "demolition". 1st, Having actually worked there I can and will attest to anyone, that it was impossible to "plant" incendiary devices in offices, stairwells, and other storage points without notice or being touched off as it was staffed 24x7. Infamously, WTC smokers were often too lazy or out of shape to take the stairs or elevators out to the plaza to smoke and violated any # of NYFD/PAPD statutes to smoke in toilets, stairwells and other rooms. 2nd and more importantly, steel melts at a very high temperature, over 2000 F but it becomes DUCTILE (bendable, malleable, pliable) at a lower temperature...lower than the temperatures reached inside...and as such twisted and collapsed. Do any of these dolts factor in the physical laws of gravity from a mile up and the inability for twisted beams to support the sheer tonnage of human beings, plaster, wood, concrete, glass, wiring, steel, plumbing, running water, fabric, furniture, electronics, TV and computer screens, computers, building material, insulation, paint, plastic, paper, and machinery as unsupportable weight and also acted as touch points for conflagration that burned as a result of fuel and resultant electrical fires? All of this tripe has been debunked long, long ago..... www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842While I am practicing much restraint in this new Hampur or as I call it Hampur 2.0 or The Playpen, I am always compelled to debunk the Troofers like "Bavarian" (whom I suspect is a dope like "Nationalist88" or one of our other infamous "Libertarian" pukes in mufti) that deny the laws of physics while citing the same as "proof" of an Reichstag fire-like "inside job"...they are as loathesome, odious, morally bankrupt as any terrorist - B. Hussein's S.A. aka The Occufilth, NBPP, ANSWER and Al Qaeda included- with the added un-bonus of being intellectually and scientifically incurious, and definitely worthy of being beaten up to a bloody unsconscious pulp by my ironically, un-malleable iron fists whenever they utter this unspeakable blood libel. Why are you attacking me? I suggest you read aefor911truth to receive necessary remedial brushing up on steel melting. I will block you as I do others who can't refrain from attack and must belittle someone on the Internet to feel adequate. |
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Post by Jets Things on Jan 7, 2015 20:08:52 GMT -5
Why the hell did I click on this thread. Bavar might be out of this thread, but I wish he'd explain further this sentence he posted- "Two laws of physics were violated and the melting of steel beams magically took place from jet fuel/kerosene of which most was dissipated upon impact. " What two laws were broken, and what steel melted? Are you implying some steel from the WTC towers turned from a solid in to a liquid? I'm a structural engineer. In addition to engineering, I also minored in physics and mathematics. My job involves the design of force resisting systems. I have an intimate knowledge of the mechanics of materials. . In addition to designing hurricane and earthquake resistant structures, I also work at designing blast resistant structures. If you have some questions about physics or steel structures, please ask. I am impressed with your background Mr. L. While I am not in the same profession as yourself my dad ran his own mechanical engineering business for nearly 40 years and working for him in a part time capacity I gained a cursory knowledge of metallurgy and metallic properties. Additionally, I worked at 2 WTC, Floors 25/26 for several years up until the morning of its "demolition". 1st, Having actually worked there I can and will attest to anyone, that it was impossible to "plant" incendiary devices in offices, stairwells, and other storage points without notice or being touched off as it was staffed 24x7. Infamously, WTC smokers were often too lazy or out of shape to take the stairs or elevators out to the plaza to smoke and violated any # of NYFD/PAPD statutes to smoke in toilets, stairwells and other rooms. 2nd and more importantly, steel melts at a very high temperature, over 2000 F but it becomes DUCTILE (bendable, malleable, pliable) at a lower temperature...lower than the temperatures reached inside...and as such twisted and collapsed. Do any of these dolts factor in the physical laws of gravity from a mile up and the inability for twisted beams to support the sheer tonnage of human beings, plaster, wood, concrete, glass, wiring, steel, plumbing, running water, fabric, furniture, electronics, TV and computer screens, computers, building material, insulation, paint, plastic, paper, and machinery as unsupportable weight and also acted as touch points for conflagration that burned as a result of fuel and resultant electrical fires? All of this tripe has been debunked long, long ago..... www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842While I am practicing much restraint in this new Hampur or as I call it Hampur 2.0 or The Playpen, I am always compelled to debunk the Troofers like "Bavarian" (whom I suspect is a dope like "Nationalist88" or one of our other infamous "Libertarian" pukes in mufti) that deny the laws of physics while citing the same as "proof" of an Reichstag fire-like "inside job"...they are as loathesome, odious, morally bankrupt as any terrorist - B. Hussein's S.A. aka The Occufilth, NBPP, ANSWER and Al Qaeda included- with the added un-bonus of being intellectually and scientifically incurious, and definitely worthy of being beaten up to a bloody unsconscious pulp by my ironically, un-malleable iron fists whenever they utter this unspeakable blood libel. Agree with everything you said...except for your definition of Ductile. If a metal is ductile, it can be drawn out into a wire. But you were right in saying steel becomes malleable at temperatures lower than melting. Source: used to work in manufacturing where steel use is prevalent. |
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Post by Bavarian on Jan 7, 2015 20:23:16 GMT -5
Why the hell did I click on this thread. Bavar might be out of this thread, but I wish he'd explain further this sentence he posted- "Two laws of physics were violated and the melting of steel beams magically took place from jet fuel/kerosene of which most was dissipated upon impact. " What two laws were broken, and what steel melted? Are you implying some steel from the WTC towers turned from a solid in to a liquid? I'm a structural engineer. In addition to engineering, I also minored in physics and mathematics. My job involves the design of force resisting systems. I have an intimate knowledge of the mechanics of materials. . In addition to designing hurricane and earthquake resistant structures, I also work at designing blast resistant structures. If you have some questions about physics or steel structures, please ask. I think you have taken me out of context but I cant be certain. To clarify, my point was that if the towers went down by fire (1st time in world history that fire brought down a steel building and we get three!), that laws of physics were also broken. Feel free to discuss in relevance the law of momentum of conservation as one and conservation of angular momentum as another. Keep in mind we have three buildings falling at very near free-fall due to office fires not reaching the necessary 3600 degrees to begin melting steel. Beyond that, steel is a ductile material, not brittle and not able to simply snap. If this magical inferno actually took place, the beams would sway before giving. Of course steel didn't melt here. What could sustain such temperatures? Office furniture? I don't think so. But anyone willing to read into the accounts beyond what their govt tells them will learn that there was thermite found everywhere. Thermite as you know is an accelerant used in demolitions and certainly explains why the inferno raged on at ground zero until mid-December. |
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Post by Bavarian on Jan 7, 2015 20:44:28 GMT -5
Conspiracy theories didn't begin with Kennedy. Look back through history and you'll find that any time some disgruntled foreign agent ever committed an atrocity on American soil, there were people screaming "false flag!" -- meaning the government intentionally staged the attack to drum up support for some kind of evil foreign policy, or, at the very least, intentionally let it happen for the same reason. Take Pearl Harbor. After the Japanese air force launched a surprise attack on the American fleet in 1941, it became a widespread belief among conspiracy authors that President Roosevelt knew the attack was going to take place, but allowed it to go ahead. Why? Quite simply, he had a hard-on for war with Germany, but didn't have the public support for it. Since Hitler had signed a pact with Japan, war with either of them meant war with both, and allowing everyone at Pearl Harbor to be murdered would give FDR all the public support he needed to enter the war. He could spank Hitler's ass while still looking like the victim. The Simple Misunderstanding: The Tripartite Pact, the pact between Japan, Germany, and Italy, was a defensive alliance only. That means Hitler was under no obligation to attack the United States just because his idiot friends did. Of course, Germany did declare war after Pearl Harbor, but it had nothing to do with the idea that Hitler's hand was forced by some deal he had with Japan. Instead, he cited the Lend-Lease Act and American naval activity as his reasons. That's because Roosevelt was already pissing Hitler off by ordering his destroyers to sink German submarines on sight while at the same time escorting boatloads of weapons and supplies to Hitler's enemies. It's true that Roosevelt was pretty keen to enter the war against Germany ... to the point where he actually didn't want to go to war with Japan because a war in the Pacific would distract him from his German hate-boner. Read more: www.cracked.com/article_20466_5-conspiracy-theories-that-are-shockingly-easy-to-debunk.html#ixzz3NsvrBqQofcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DECWAR.htmwww.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=71Yep, a lot of info is out there and thanks to freedom of information act and independent historians from US and abroad give new perspectives towards our history. One can have a closed kind and believe everything has been rosy as I have most of my life. A lot of dirty and harsh events have taken place and we're not immune. This is very interesting what you bring up as just recently I read about how FDR was egging on the Germans to get into WW2. What most people don't realize is how profitable war can be. Great boon for economy. |
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Post by Trades on Jan 7, 2015 20:56:17 GMT -5
Why the hell did I click on this thread. Bavar might be out of this thread, but I wish he'd explain further this sentence he posted- "Two laws of physics were violated and the melting of steel beams magically took place from jet fuel/kerosene of which most was dissipated upon impact. " What two laws were broken, and what steel melted? Are you implying some steel from the WTC towers turned from a solid in to a liquid? I'm a structural engineer. In addition to engineering, I also minored in physics and mathematics. My job involves the design of force resisting systems. I have an intimate knowledge of the mechanics of materials. . In addition to designing hurricane and earthquake resistant structures, I also work at designing blast resistant structures. If you have some questions about physics or steel structures, please ask. I think you have taken me out of context but I cant be certain. To clarify, my point was that if the towers went down by fire (1st time in world history that fire brought down a steel building and we get three!), that laws of physics were also broken. Feel free to discuss in relevance the law of momentum of conservation as one and conservation of angular momentum as another. Keep in mind we have three buildings falling at very near free-fall due to office fires not reaching the necessary 3600 degrees to begin melting steel. Beyond that, steel is a ductile material, not brittle and not able to simply snap. If this magical inferno actually took place, the beams would sway before giving. Of course steel didn't melt here. What could sustain such temperatures? Office furniture? I don't think so. But anyone willing to read into the accounts beyond what their govt tells them will learn that there was thermite found everywhere. Thermite as you know is an accelerant used in demolitions and certainly explains why the inferno raged on at ground zero until mid-December. Read more: www.cracked.com/article_20466_5-conspiracy-theories-that-are-shockingly-easy-to-debunk.html#ixzz3OBtSVd75 |
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Post by Bavarian on Jan 7, 2015 22:26:13 GMT -5
I am impressed with your background Mr. L. While I am not in the same profession as yourself my dad ran his own mechanical engineering business for nearly 40 years and working for him in a part time capacity I gained a cursory knowledge of metallurgy and metallic properties. Additionally, I worked at 2 WTC, Floors 25/26 for several years up until the morning of its "demolition". 1st, Having actually worked there I can and will attest to anyone, that it was impossible to "plant" incendiary devices in offices, stairwells, and other storage points without notice or being touched off as it was staffed 24x7. Infamously, WTC smokers were often too lazy or out of shape to take the stairs or elevators out to the plaza to smoke and violated any # of NYFD/PAPD statutes to smoke. 2nd and more importantly, steel melts at a very high temperature, over 2000 F but it becomes DUCTILE (bendable, malleable, pliable) at a lower temperature...lower than the temperatures reached inside...and as such twisted and collapsed. Do any of these dolts factor in the physical laws of gravity from a mile up and the inability for twisted beams to support the sheer tonnage of human beings, plaster, wood, concrete, glass, wiring, steel, plumbing, running water, fabric, furniture, electronics, TV and computer screens, computers, building material, insulation, paint, plastic, paper, and machinery as unsupportable weight and also acted as touch points for conflagration that burned as a result of fuel and resultant electrical fires? All of this tripe has been debunked long, long ago..... www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842While I am practicing much restraint in this new Hampur or as I call it Hampur 2.0 or The Playpen, I am always compelled to debunk the Troofers like "Bavarian" (whom I suspect is a dope like "Nationalist88" or one of our other infamous "Libertarian" pukes in mufti) that deny the laws of physics while citing the same as "proof" of an Reichstag fire-like "inside job"...they are as loathesome, odious, morally bankrupt as any terrorist - B. Hussein's S.A. aka The Occufilth, NBPP, ANSWER and Al Qaeda included- with the added un-bonus of being intellectually and scientifically incurious, and definitely worthy of being beaten up to a bloody unsconscious pulp by my ironically, un-malleable iron fists whenever they utter this unspeakable blood libel. I appreciate your restraint.  People with no idea of physics and materials who talk about some conspiracy about why the WTCs collapsed drive me insane.
3rd, without getting too engineering speak, the commercial airliner impacts knocked out some columns and floors. The capacity of a column is based, among other things, on it's unbraced length. A floor braces a column. Once you remove a floor, you double it's unbraced length. Doubling a columns unbraced length reduces it's capacity by a factor of 4. Additionally, load that was supported on columns that were obliterated by impact had to go somewhere else, which was the remaining intact columns. Add load to a column, double or triple it's unbraced length, and heat it a few hundred degrees, and it's no stretch of physics or the imagination that they buckled, leading to a progressive collapse of the WTCs.
Knocked out columns? An aluminum airliner? What about the "remaining" columns for the majority of the floors still intact? And steel supports? And try 3600 degrees before melting can occur for the world's first steel building collapse in history. We saw three. One untouched by a plane which happened to fall quickest. The resistance of mass remained far exceeding the floors that were "falling" make this physically impossible under the law of momentum of conservation without a force removing that mass. Without such removal you would have seen this stop very quickly. Instead you see near free-fall in two of the three buildings as in a demolition. NIST admitted in 2009 after much delay and pressure that free-fall in fact did take place in the third building. Hundreds of firefighters have sworn and there is video/audio confirming multiple explosions in the buildings after the planes hit. Thermite was found. I know a lot of you are instinctively defending the narrative as all others who dare question the govt version of events (approaching 50% in US and over 80% globally) can only be kooks as I thought for 12 years. I would ask any of you who can't refrain from name-calling to explain WTC3 if you have even heard of it and I'll be glad to discuss further. And also ask yourself why the numbers keep growing every year for those who don't believe the 911 Commission. It's not political. Bush is long gone. |
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Post by Big L on Jan 8, 2015 8:55:17 GMT -5
Dude, I just explained something to you, and you respond with the same original question? Didn't you read what I wrote?
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Post by flushingjet on Jan 8, 2015 18:53:17 GMT -5
I am impressed with your background Mr. L. While I am not in the same profession as yourself my dad ran his own mechanical engineering business for nearly 40 years and working for him in a part time capacity I gained a cursory knowledge of metallurgy and metallic properties. Additionally, I worked at 2 WTC, Floors 25/26 for several years up until the morning of its "demolition". 1st, Having actually worked there I can and will attest to anyone, that it was impossible to "plant" incendiary devices in offices, stairwells, and other storage points without notice or being touched off as it was staffed 24x7. Infamously, WTC smokers were often too lazy or out of shape to take the stairs or elevators out to the plaza to smoke and violated any # of NYFD/PAPD statutes to smoke in toilets, stairwells and other rooms. 2nd and more importantly, steel melts at a very high temperature, over 2000 F but it becomes DUCTILE (bendable, malleable, pliable) at a lower temperature...lower than the temperatures reached inside...and as such twisted and collapsed. Do any of these dolts factor in the physical laws of gravity from a mile up and the inability for twisted beams to support the sheer tonnage of human beings, plaster, wood, concrete, glass, wiring, steel, plumbing, running water, fabric, furniture, electronics, TV and computer screens, computers, building material, insulation, paint, plastic, paper, and machinery as unsupportable weight and also acted as touch points for conflagration that burned as a result of fuel and resultant electrical fires? All of this tripe has been debunked long, long ago..... www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842While I am practicing much restraint in this new Hampur or as I call it Hampur 2.0 or The Playpen, I am always compelled to debunk the Troofers like "Bavarian" (whom I suspect is a dope like "Nationalist88" or one of our other infamous "Libertarian" pukes in mufti) that deny the laws of physics while citing the same as "proof" of an Reichstag fire-like "inside job"...they are as loathesome, odious, morally bankrupt as any terrorist - B. Hussein's S.A. aka The Occufilth, NBPP, ANSWER and Al Qaeda included- with the added un-bonus of being intellectually and scientifically incurious, and definitely worthy of being beaten up to a bloody unsconscious pulp by my ironically, un-malleable iron fists whenever they utter this unspeakable blood libel. Why are you attacking me? I suggest you read aefor911truth to receive necessary remedial brushing up on steel melting. I will block you as I do others who can't refrain from attack and must belittle someone on the Internet to feel adequate. I'm attacking you because you are obviously an ignorant ahole like every other Troofer. 9/11 conspiracy theorists are a plague on society, a glob of sh1t smeared on the escutcheon of humanity. Like I could give a sh1t if a dope like you blocks me. :mad: There was no molten steel at the WTC, no controlled demolitions, nothing any idiot Troofer alleges. Talk about adequate, your "arguments" are completely inadequate. Argumentum ad populum is no proof of anything. Now people smarter than you took the time to explain why that is so. Tell the world again what "laws of physics" (and engineering, chemistry, gravity) prove YOU right. Euler knew in 1757 what you DON'T know today. Carbon steel loses most of its strength heated at 700-1000 F...fact A 767 loaded with people flying near the speed of sound was almost enough ft. ton torque to knock a tower down... Load bearing columns knocked out or damaged transfer load to other columns that couldn't support it... Failure of steel columns isnt staged or staggered or gradual its catastrophic after a tipping point is reached.... etc.! |
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Post by Trades on Jan 8, 2015 20:36:54 GMT -5
Why are you attacking me? I suggest you read aefor911truth to receive necessary remedial brushing up on steel melting. I will block you as I do others who can't refrain from attack and must belittle someone on the Internet to feel adequate. I'm attacking you because you are obviously an ignorant ahole like every other Troofer. 9/11 conspiracy theorists are a plague on society, a glob of sh1t smeared on the escutcheon of humanity. Like I could give a sh1t if a dope like you blocks me. :mad: There was no molten steel at the WTC, no controlled demolitions, nothing any idiot Troofer alleges. Talk about adequate, your "arguments" are completely inadequate. Argumentum ad populum is no proof of anything. Now people smarter than you took the time to explain why that is so. Tell the world again what "laws of physics" (and engineering, chemistry, gravity) prove YOU right. Euler knew in 1757 what you DON'T know today. Carbon steel loses most of its strength heated at 700-1000 F...fact A 767 loaded with people flying near the speed of sound was almost enough ft. ton torque to knock a tower down... Load bearing columns knocked out or damaged transfer load to other columns that couldn't support it... Failure of steel columns isnt staged or staggered or gradual its catastrophic after a tipping point is reached.... etc.! Exactly that "light" aluminum 767 had a maximum take off weight of 395,000 pounds! Almost 200 tons! F=ma and that is a lot of mass and it wasn't going slowly. |
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Post by Big L on Jan 9, 2015 8:11:05 GMT -5
Exactly that "light" aluminum 767 had a maximum take off weight of 395,000 pounds! Almost 200 tons! F=ma and that is a lot of mass and it wasn't going slowly. And yet the guy who claims laws of physics were broken doesn't even have the basic understanding of physics. Go figure. |
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People with no idea of physics and materials who talk about some conspiracy about why the WTCs collapsed drive me insane.