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Post by DDNYjets on Jun 22, 2016 11:18:49 GMT -5
Staggering numbers. The chart obviously doesnt include suicide b.c Japan and some European "utopian" countries would be much higher on the list.
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Post by Mond the Bagnificient on Jun 22, 2016 11:35:33 GMT -5
Staggering numbers. The chart obviously doesnt include suicide b.c Japan and some European "utopian" countries would be much higher on the list. And this is where liberals will say "that's just an epidemic problem among a certain population that can never be solved" or "can be solved by civic leaders educating their population (something that has never worked)". All BS. They are never willing to take the necessary steps to end a lingering problem in fear of being racist or non PC. They are content with watching the country slide into the abyss.
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Post by Trades on Jun 22, 2016 11:49:15 GMT -5
Something about saying mass killings only are 2 percent doesn't make me feel better. why are we so different than other countries....why do we have so mAny more gun deaths? im being sincere, I really don't get it. Is a law gonna make you feel better? If we made laws to make people feel better than we would need to build more prisons to house the offenders. And, as you know, we already house the most in the world. We have more gun deaths because we have more guns and angry people. But its not those evil looking "assault rifles" that are killing people, its the handguns. Those highly regulated, often illegally-used handguns. Then there is also the gang/drug culture that goes hand-in-hand with all this but nobody cares about that. Children and gays dying is much more sexy. If the media harped on the minority-on-minority gun deaths that occur in the inner cities with a tenth of the intensity they do about the mass shootings with "assault rifles" you would probably be more outraged about that.
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 22, 2016 12:01:04 GMT -5
Something about saying mass killings only are 2 percent doesn't make me feel better. why are we so different than other countries....why do we have so mAny more gun deaths? im being sincere, I really don't get it. Is a law gonna make you feel better? If we made laws to make people feel better than we would need to build more prisons to house the offenders. And, as you know, we already house the most in the world. We have more gun deaths because we have more guns and angry people. But its not those evil looking "assault rifles" that are killing people, its the handguns. Those highly regulated, often illegally-used handguns. Then there is also the gang/drug culture that goes hand-in-hand with all this but nobody cares about that. Children and gays dying is much more sexy. If the media harped on the minority-on-minority gun deaths that occur in the inner cities with a tenth of the intensity they do about the mass shootings with "assault rifles" you would probably be more outraged about that. If you would read what I said, no, laws don't make me feels better. If someone wants to shoot someone, really, theres nothing to stop them, here or anywhere else. My question was why do disputes in the US end with gun deaths more often then other countries. I didn't mention gays or kids or blacks or whites or assault rifles, legal guns or illegal guns. What is it about us that makes us more likely to kill each other here?
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 22, 2016 12:08:52 GMT -5
Staggering numbers. The chart obviously doesnt include suicide b.c Japan and some European "utopian" countries would be much higher on the list. They are never willing to take the necessary steps to end a lingering problem in fear of being racist or non PC. They are content with watching the country slide into the abyss. What would be the necessary steps to end a lingering problem?
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Post by DDNYjets on Jun 22, 2016 13:02:56 GMT -5
Is a law gonna make you feel better? If we made laws to make people feel better than we would need to build more prisons to house the offenders. And, as you know, we already house the most in the world. We have more gun deaths because we have more guns and angry people. But its not those evil looking "assault rifles" that are killing people, its the handguns. Those highly regulated, often illegally-used handguns. Then there is also the gang/drug culture that goes hand-in-hand with all this but nobody cares about that. Children and gays dying is much more sexy. If the media harped on the minority-on-minority gun deaths that occur in the inner cities with a tenth of the intensity they do about the mass shootings with "assault rifles" you would probably be more outraged about that. If you would read what I said, no, laws don't make me feels better. If someone wants to shoot someone, really, theres nothing to stop them, here or anywhere else. My question was why do disputes in the US end with gun deaths more often then other countries. I didn't mention gays or kids or blacks or whites or assault rifles, legal guns or illegal guns. What is it about us that makes us more likely to kill each other here? First we need to acknowledge that violence involving guns is actually decreasing in this country. An absolute massive decline since the 90s. Some will argue that the increase scrutiny of police tactics may reverse that trend in time but we will just have to wait and see. Statistically speaking, as of right now we are safer from guns than we have been in the past. And of course there is still much room for improvement. But to answer your question I dont know. I dont know anyone who has ever committed a crime with a gun. I dont know what makes people do such things. I suspect there are multiple issues involving culture and economics. I also think these problems did not spawn overnight and they will not be solved overnight. Perhaps we should look at common denominators and trends (dog whistle for liberal policies ) that have been going on for decades in places where gun violence is most prevalent.
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 22, 2016 13:14:07 GMT -5
If you would read what I said, no, laws don't make me feels better. If someone wants to shoot someone, really, theres nothing to stop them, here or anywhere else. My question was why do disputes in the US end with gun deaths more often then other countries. I didn't mention gays or kids or blacks or whites or assault rifles, legal guns or illegal guns. What is it about us that makes us more likely to kill each other here? First we need to acknowledge that violence involving guns is actually decreasing in this country. An absolute massive decline since the 90s. Some will argue that the increase scrutiny of police tactics may reverse that trend in time but we will just have to wait and see. Statistically speaking, as of right now we are safer from guns than we have been in the past. And of course there is still much room for improvement. But to answer your question I dont know. I dont know anyone who has ever committed a crime with a gun. I dont know what makes people do such things. I suspect there are multiple issues involving culture and economics. I also think these problems did not spawn overnight and they will not be solved overnight. Perhaps we should look at common denominators and trends (dog whistle for liberal policies ) that have been going on for decades in places where gun violence is most prevalent. Sure. Massachusetts is VERY liberal...and very little gun violence. Therefore Liberalism leads to less gun violence. EASY!
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Post by DDNYjets on Jun 22, 2016 14:02:10 GMT -5
First we need to acknowledge that violence involving guns is actually decreasing in this country. An absolute massive decline since the 90s. Some will argue that the increase scrutiny of police tactics may reverse that trend in time but we will just have to wait and see. Statistically speaking, as of right now we are safer from guns than we have been in the past. And of course there is still much room for improvement. But to answer your question I dont know. I dont know anyone who has ever committed a crime with a gun. I dont know what makes people do such things. I suspect there are multiple issues involving culture and economics. I also think these problems did not spawn overnight and they will not be solved overnight. Perhaps we should look at common denominators and trends (dog whistle for liberal policies ) that have been going on for decades in places where gun violence is most prevalent. Sure. Massachusetts is VERY liberal...and very little gun violence. Therefore Liberalism leads to less gun violence. EASY! If there only wasnt a slew of evidence that point in the other direction. www.ijreview.com/2016/01/510415-10-charts-that-put-obamas-gun-violence-town-hall-in-perspective/Still though, gun violence is going down overall.
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 22, 2016 14:18:04 GMT -5
If you would read what I said, no, laws don't make me feels better. If someone wants to shoot someone, really, theres nothing to stop them, here or anywhere else. My question was why do disputes in the US end with gun deaths more often then other countries. I didn't mention gays or kids or blacks or whites or assault rifles, legal guns or illegal guns. What is it about us that makes us more likely to kill each other here? First we need to acknowledge that violence involving guns is actually decreasing in this country. An absolute massive decline since the 90s. Some will argue that the increase scrutiny of police tactics may reverse that trend in time but we will just have to wait and see. Statistically speaking, as of right now we are safer from guns than we have been in the past. And of course there is still much room for improvement. But to answer your question I dont know. I dont know anyone who has ever committed a crime with a gun. I dont know what makes people do such things. I suspect there are multiple issues involving culture and economics. I also think these problems did not spawn overnight and they will not be solved overnight. Perhaps we should look at common denominators and trends (dog whistle for liberal policies ) that have been going on for decades in places where gun violence is most prevalent. I'm curious, how you do feel about the ban on CDC gun violence research? Can any research be helpful or would it all be political?
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Post by Mond the Bagnificient on Jun 22, 2016 14:21:42 GMT -5
They are never willing to take the necessary steps to end a lingering problem in fear of being racist or non PC. They are content with watching the country slide into the abyss. What would be the necessary steps to end a lingering problem? Glad you asked. How about we start with the following (these measures apply to a wide variety of problems, not just the one above): 1. Mandatory, temporary sterilization for the entire US population at age 13. You can be allowed by law to have children once you are deemed to at least have the long term financial means to support them. No more supporting more children that the state has to pay for. 2. No permanent welfare of any kind except for the elderly or disabled. Only temporary (like unemployment insurance) until you can find a job (if your job doesn't allow you to make enough money, then you can have some supplemental welfare). And if you can't find a job, the state will give you one in return for housing, food stamps, etc. - picking up garbage, painting over graffiti, helping old women cross the road, etc. Whatever - not hard labor, but SOMETHING that gets you out of your house daily from 9-5. 3. Of course, build the wall. 4. Cameras and cops on every corner in those geographical areas that have high crime rates. You don't go around the block without always seeing a cop. 5. Very harsh corporal punishments. This is the one area where I think the Muslims sort of have it right. If you are found guilty of rape or murder or some other capital crime, public hanging (or even public torture) and then death immediately. And don't tell me about mistaken identity - the % is so low these days with DNA evidence, its not worth spending $40K a year on every other scumbag who is sitting on death row for years to keep them alive. Victim's family should have a say in the punishment. And again, they should be public - aired on TV. Bring back the gladiators, or Running Man. Scare the shit out of people who would commit these type of crimes. Same with drug smugglers/dealers. Cut of their arms, or legs, or both. And then drop in a river and tell them they can go free if they swim back to shore. The population must be afraid to death (like Midnight Express afraid) to commit the most heinous crimes in this country, instead of slaps on the wrist and/or living out the rest of your life reading books, working out, watching TV, etc. with others of your ilk in prison. That's the start of my solution.
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 22, 2016 14:34:44 GMT -5
What would be the necessary steps to end a lingering problem? Glad you asked. How about we start with the following (these measures apply to a wide variety of problems, not just the one above): 1. Mandatory, temporary sterilization for the entire US population at age 13. You can be allowed by law to have children once you are deemed to at least have the long term financial means to support them. No more supporting more children that the state has to pay for. 2. No permanent welfare of any kind except for the elderly or disabled. Only temporary (like unemployment insurance) until you can find a job (if your job doesn't allow you to make enough money, then you can have some supplemental welfare). And if you can't find a job, the state will give you one in return for housing, food stamps, etc. - picking up garbage, painting over graffiti, helping old women cross the road, etc. Whatever - not hard labor, but SOMETHING that gets you out of your house daily from 9-5. 3. Of course, build the wall. 4. Cameras and cops on every corner in those geographical areas that have high crime rates. You don't go around the block without always seeing a cop. 5. Very harsh corporal punishments. This is the one area where I think the Muslims sort of have it right. If you are found guilty of rape or murder or some other capital crime, public hanging (or even public torture) and then death immediately. And don't tell me about mistaken identity - the % is so low these days with DNA evidence, its not worth spending $40K a year on every other scumbag who is sitting on death row for years to keep them alive. Victim's family should have a say in the punishment. And again, they should be public - aired on TV. Bring back the gladiators, or Running Man. Scare the shit out of people who would commit these type of crimes. Same with drug smugglers/dealers. Cut of their arms, or legs, or both. And then drop in a river and tell them they can go free if they swim back to shore. The population must be afraid to death (like Midnight Express afraid) to commit the most heinous crimes in this country, instead of slaps on the wrist and/or living out the rest of your life reading books, working out, watching TV, etc. with others of your ilk in prison. That's the start of my solution. Do you think all those are Constitutional?
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Post by DDNYjets on Jun 22, 2016 14:36:21 GMT -5
First we need to acknowledge that violence involving guns is actually decreasing in this country. An absolute massive decline since the 90s. Some will argue that the increase scrutiny of police tactics may reverse that trend in time but we will just have to wait and see. Statistically speaking, as of right now we are safer from guns than we have been in the past. And of course there is still much room for improvement. But to answer your question I dont know. I dont know anyone who has ever committed a crime with a gun. I dont know what makes people do such things. I suspect there are multiple issues involving culture and economics. I also think these problems did not spawn overnight and they will not be solved overnight. Perhaps we should look at common denominators and trends (dog whistle for liberal policies ) that have been going on for decades in places where gun violence is most prevalent. I'm curious, how you do feel about the ban on CDC gun violence research? Can any research be helpful or would it all be political? Gun violence isnt a disease. I'd rather them put the money into autism. Or perhaps mental health. What do you think the "research" is going to tell us about gun violence that we already dont know or what the statistics already don't tell us? We know who commits the crimes and what their life is like. We've been fighting a war against it for over a half-century. And yes, we know who is responsible for the mass shootings that are a whopping 2% of the total deaths and what their life if like as well. That research will just end up being a complete political piece. Not even the CDC can be trusted as impartial anymore. Every agency of our government has been infected with politics. You want a cure? A complete ban and confiscation. But even that wont protect us from the black market and the flow of guns coming across our border. Some of which our government under the guidance of Eric Holder gave to cartels.
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Post by Mond the Bagnificient on Jun 22, 2016 14:40:09 GMT -5
Glad you asked. How about we start with the following (these measures apply to a wide variety of problems, not just the one above): 1. Mandatory, temporary sterilization for the entire US population at age 13. You can be allowed by law to have children once you are deemed to at least have the long term financial means to support them. No more supporting more children that the state has to pay for. 2. No permanent welfare of any kind except for the elderly or disabled. Only temporary (like unemployment insurance) until you can find a job (if your job doesn't allow you to make enough money, then you can have some supplemental welfare). And if you can't find a job, the state will give you one in return for housing, food stamps, etc. - picking up garbage, painting over graffiti, helping old women cross the road, etc. Whatever - not hard labor, but SOMETHING that gets you out of your house daily from 9-5. 3. Of course, build the wall. 4. Cameras and cops on every corner in those geographical areas that have high crime rates. You don't go around the block without always seeing a cop. 5. Very harsh corporal punishments. This is the one area where I think the Muslims sort of have it right. If you are found guilty of rape or murder or some other capital crime, public hanging (or even public torture) and then death immediately. And don't tell me about mistaken identity - the % is so low these days with DNA evidence, its not worth spending $40K a year on every other scumbag who is sitting on death row for years to keep them alive. Victim's family should have a say in the punishment. And again, they should be public - aired on TV. Bring back the gladiators, or Running Man. Scare the shit out of people who would commit these type of crimes. Same with drug smugglers/dealers. Cut of their arms, or legs, or both. And then drop in a river and tell them they can go free if they swim back to shore. The population must be afraid to death (like Midnight Express afraid) to commit the most heinous crimes in this country, instead of slaps on the wrist and/or living out the rest of your life reading books, working out, watching TV, etc. with others of your ilk in prison. That's the start of my solution. Do you think all those are Constitutional? I'm not a Constitutional lawyer, but I think... 1. The bill of rights applies to life.. not to future life. Therefore, there is no "right" to reproduce granted in the Constitution. 2. Welfare of any kind is not a right as far as I know of. 3. Illegal immigration is not a right. 4. Public cameras exist, as do police forces - I'm just advocating growing them exponentially. 5. I'm not advocating changing the legal system prior to conviction, only after. And yes, the 8th Amendment would need to be repealed or altered.
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Post by Ff2 on Jun 22, 2016 14:58:51 GMT -5
Do you think all those are Constitutional? I'm not a Constitutional lawyer, but I think... 1. The bill of rights applies to life.. not to future life. Therefore, there is no "right" to reproduce granted in the Constitution. 2. Welfare of any kind is not a right as far as I know of. 3. Illegal immigration is not a right. 4. Public cameras exist, as do police forces - I'm just advocating growing them exponentially. 5. I'm not advocating changing the legal system prior to conviction, only after. And yes, the 8th Amendment would need to be repealed or altered. You don't see any challenges to #1?
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Post by Mond the Bagnificient on Jun 22, 2016 15:03:05 GMT -5
I'm not a Constitutional lawyer, but I think... 1. The bill of rights applies to life.. not to future life. Therefore, there is no "right" to reproduce granted in the Constitution. 2. Welfare of any kind is not a right as far as I know of. 3. Illegal immigration is not a right. 4. Public cameras exist, as do police forces - I'm just advocating growing them exponentially. 5. I'm not advocating changing the legal system prior to conviction, only after. And yes, the 8th Amendment would need to be repealed or altered. You don't see any challenges to #1? Of course I do... like I said, these are the hard solutions... not the easy ones. It would probably be easier to temporary sterilize at birth, just like circumcision - you don't get a birth certificate without a sterilization certificate.
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