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Post by southparkcpa on Aug 24, 2018 4:40:17 GMT -5
No I said restaurants and other businesses .... just an example. There will be no Jobs for the poor and uneducated soon. Yes we spend the most on education. The dept of ED was founded in 1976. Since inception ... we have dropped like a stone. Govt involvement almost guarantees failure. There will always be jobs. If we reach the point where robots replace us all, then we all get to kick back and have grapes fed to us all day by robot Jeeves. Then why do you feel the need to tell employers what they MUST pay? If it works so well..let's make minimum wage $25 an hour so these people can buy nice homes and cars. I say $25 an hour minimum wage!!!!
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Post by Mond the Bagnificient on Aug 24, 2018 5:32:56 GMT -5
There will always be jobs. If we reach the point where robots replace us all, then we all get to kick back and have grapes fed to us all day by robot Jeeves. Then why do you feel the need to tell employers what they MUST pay? If it works so well..let's make minimum wage $25 an hour so these people can buy nice homes and cars. I say $25 an hour minimum wage!!!! I never told anyone anything. I think you have me confused with some leftie.
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Post by southparkcpa on Aug 24, 2018 7:42:30 GMT -5
Then why do you feel the need to tell employers what they MUST pay? If it works so well..let's make minimum wage $25 an hour so these people can buy nice homes and cars. I say $25 an hour minimum wage!!!! I never told anyone anything. I think you have me confused with some leftie. You quoted that they should pay a decent wage and if they go under, so be it. I agree. Let's make them pay $25 an hour.
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Aug 24, 2018 7:48:22 GMT -5
And put your money where your mouth is. Plenty of lazy people willing to hire undocumented workers to mow their lawns and clean their houses, but rail against illegal immigration. I know the guy that mows my lawn and cleans my house and he is from here. Of course it is me but anyway... I do both myself too, but know too many people in the neighborhood that would rather save a buck and go with an illegal. Hell, most everyone knows where they hang out for cheap day labor jobs in the HV.
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Post by Trades on Aug 24, 2018 7:58:12 GMT -5
I know the guy that mows my lawn and cleans my house and he is from here. Of course it is me but anyway... I do both myself too, but know too many people in the neighborhood that would rather save a buck and go with an illegal. Hell, most everyone knows where they hang out for cheap day labor jobs in the HV. When I was married we used a service that imported Polish women on short term work visas to clean houses. I used them for a while once I got divorced and after a while I started looking around asking what I was paying for since it was a half assed job. Been doing it all myself or with the help of my girlfriend when she is here ever since. Saves me $2600/yr too.
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Aug 24, 2018 8:00:25 GMT -5
Agreed that the govt needs to tighten things up too , but if an employee presents me a fake ID and info, where everything matches info for another, legal individual, which is how Im assuming they would pass e-verify, and I dont verify picture ID, etc, and enter valid data into the system, then the gov't is just going to pass them. Someone has to be the gatekeeper and that's the employer themselves who is face to face with the prospective employee. We hold businesses responsible for not verifying ID for alcohol or cigarette sales, why not this as well? At the end of the day, the employer didnt verify that whatever name this guy used was actually Cristhian Rivera and wasnt who he said he was. Youre on to something with the no benefits thing... de-incentivize people from coming here by not giving them freebees. The government?? Dont make me laugh. The E Verify system is a JOKE. From all we hear this "person" passed the E system. It is NOT the private sectors job. This is congress's job. How could a a 12 person restaurant or 50 person factory have the resources to do what the FEDS won't. It simply doesn't work. The very purpose of the I-9 form that an employer has to have filled out, and what gets fed into e-verify: The bolded seems to be what fell down in this situation, and for which Im saying the employer should also be held accountable. The system is only as good as the data fed into it. Granted, the system probably sucks, like most government systems, but until its fixed, I say hold everyone accountable.
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Post by Trades on Aug 24, 2018 8:28:46 GMT -5
I think this is a pretty level headed look at the problems of illegal or unlimited immigration.
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Post by southparkcpa on Aug 24, 2018 8:56:50 GMT -5
The government?? Dont make me laugh. The E Verify system is a JOKE. From all we hear this "person" passed the E system. It is NOT the private sectors job. This is congress's job. How could a a 12 person restaurant or 50 person factory have the resources to do what the FEDS won't. It simply doesn't work. The very purpose of the I-9 form that an employer has to have filled out, and what gets fed into e-verify: The bolded seems to be what fell down in this situation, and for which Im saying the employer should also be held accountable. The system is only as good as the data fed into it. Granted, the system probably sucks, like most government systems, but until its fixed, I say hold everyone accountable. and the result will be some small employer will be POUNCED on by several layers of government and made a scapegoat. I ask you.. WHY in Heavens sake does the IRS issue TIN's to illegals and THEN we want to hold the employer accountable? I get your point and of course there is accountability. BUT this company used E verify. In my mind, they are free and clear. THEY did their responsibility. I would argue why do they get drivers licenses?
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Aug 24, 2018 9:33:18 GMT -5
The very purpose of the I-9 form that an employer has to have filled out, and what gets fed into e-verify: The bolded seems to be what fell down in this situation, and for which Im saying the employer should also be held accountable. The system is only as good as the data fed into it. Granted, the system probably sucks, like most government systems, but until its fixed, I say hold everyone accountable. and the result will be some small employer will be POUNCED on by several layers of government and made a scapegoat. I ask you.. WHY in Heavens sake does the IRS issue TIN's to illegals and THEN we want to hold the employer accountable? I get your point and of course there is accountability. BUT this company used E verify. In my mind, they are free and clear. THEY did their responsibility. I would argue why do they get drivers licenses?
You've never heard of false/fake ID? Borrowing someones license who looks sorta like you to get into a bar when under 21? Assuming this guy in Iowa provided a valid name/SSN/etc for someone else, but a faked photo ID, or worse, a close lookalike, bought or stolen. The data would match when run through the system Im guessing? We already hold small businesses - bars, delis, etc. - accountable to make spot decisions about photo IDs being legit or not already. Why not in the employment process as well?
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Post by Trades on Aug 24, 2018 10:08:32 GMT -5
The very purpose of the I-9 form that an employer has to have filled out, and what gets fed into e-verify: The bolded seems to be what fell down in this situation, and for which Im saying the employer should also be held accountable. The system is only as good as the data fed into it. Granted, the system probably sucks, like most government systems, but until its fixed, I say hold everyone accountable. and the result will be some small employer will be POUNCED on by several layers of government and made a scapegoat. I ask you.. WHY in Heavens sake does the IRS issue TIN's to illegals and THEN we want to hold the employer accountable? I get your point and of course there is accountability. BUT this company used E verify. In my mind, they are free and clear. THEY did their responsibility. I would argue why do they get drivers licenses? I agree that if the employer used the tools at hand such as e-verify then it is on the government NOT the employer. I don't think, with absolutely no evidence to support my claim, that this is the norm. I figure most people either don't care or are just happy to get the cheap labor and don't think about the damage they are doing.
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Post by southparkcpa on Aug 24, 2018 10:41:19 GMT -5
and the result will be some small employer will be POUNCED on by several layers of government and made a scapegoat. I ask you.. WHY in Heavens sake does the IRS issue TIN's to illegals and THEN we want to hold the employer accountable? I get your point and of course there is accountability. BUT this company used E verify. In my mind, they are free and clear. THEY did their responsibility. I would argue why do they get drivers licenses?
You've never heard of false/fake ID? Borrowing someones license who looks sorta like you to get into a bar when under 21? Assuming this guy in Iowa provided a valid name/SSN/etc for someone else, but a faked photo ID, or worse, a close lookalike, bought or stolen. The data would match when run through the system Im guessing? We already hold small businesses - bars, delis, etc. - accountable to make spot decisions about photo IDs being legit or not already. Why not in the employment process as well? Agreed... Hold them accountable when they don't follow the rules. THIS company did. They followed the rules of the E Verify. What more should they do?
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Aug 24, 2018 10:48:52 GMT -5
Even in this case, I dont think we know (yet) what the employer did or didn't do or use. Story seems to be changing daily. Really curious to see the details. Good post here about E-Verify and its issues - www.cato.org/blog/high-cost-e-verifyThat's definitely an issue, as were I trying to beat the system, that's the route I would take.
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Aug 24, 2018 10:52:17 GMT -5
You've never heard of false/fake ID? Borrowing someones license who looks sorta like you to get into a bar when under 21? Assuming this guy in Iowa provided a valid name/SSN/etc for someone else, but a faked photo ID, or worse, a close lookalike, bought or stolen. The data would match when run through the system Im guessing? We already hold small businesses - bars, delis, etc. - accountable to make spot decisions about photo IDs being legit or not already. Why not in the employment process as well? Agreed... Hold them accountable when they don't follow the rules. THIS company did. They followed the rules of the E Verify. What more should they do? Fox is reporting that they DID NOT use E-Verify. Owner clarified his earlier comment. www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/22/mollie-tibbetts-murder-suspect-illegal-immigrant-cristhian-rivera-allegedly-passed-e-verify-system.html
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Post by southparkcpa on Aug 24, 2018 14:45:34 GMT -5
Then there is some liability there but violating employment law is what.... a misdemeanor?
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Post by Trades on Aug 30, 2018 13:40:00 GMT -5
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