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Post by jets.penguin on Apr 9, 2015 13:29:04 GMT -5
I dont necessarily disagree with you but that's just not the way it is in the NFL. If you are drafted in the 1st round you are expected to be a starter or at least have an impact your first year. As a QB unfortunately you cant platoon like other positions so that the fan base can get a glimpse of your potential. Every bad pass errant throw or questionable action will be a cry to throw MM in ready or not. You've been around long enough to know that this fan base isnt actually known for it's patience......or memory. Don't think it's that way today. It used to be true before the rookie salary scale. Not the case where a top pick who's a QB gets 45 million plus and takes up so much cap room that he has to play. Jets could draft Mariota and he'll be paid the same as any other choice at that spot. Doesn't have to start We still agree....my original post said "That would have to be a team (like the jets and tennessee) that have a solid enough team that can be middle of the road for now and when he is ready to take over can put them over the top in a year or so." I think I got a little derailed reading some of the other responses but the point was that there are a few teams (like us and Tennessee) that can afford to wait...some others cant.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Apr 9, 2015 14:44:49 GMT -5
Geno Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Matt Simms. If MM is there at 6, for fuck sakes draft him. Agreed...but if a team like Cleveland made an outlandish offer for him I think Mac will need to consider it. This is a good problem to have IMO. Cleveland with their two first round picks and last year's clusterfuck of a pick of Manziel seems like the obvious choice to move up (and fleece in the process), but if there is any truth to the rumor going around (that Chip Kelly wants to trade Bradford for Manziel and one first round pick) then it seems unlikely they'd be willing to deal. The rumor has it that they don't want to give up ANY first round picks for Bradford, just even trade Bradford for Manziel. So it seems they have an unrealistic value of their picks, and Manziel (if any of this is true). Their two picks add up to just over our number six - hardly enough to trade away our six for only their two first rounders (which they seem reluctant to part with).
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Post by Jet Nut Sauce on Apr 9, 2015 15:01:11 GMT -5
Don't think it's that way today. It used to be true before the rookie salary scale. Not the case where a top pick who's a QB gets 45 million plus and takes up so much cap room that he has to play. Jets could draft Mariota and he'll be paid the same as any other choice at that spot. Doesn't have to start We still agree....my original post said "That would have to be a team (like the jets and tennessee) that have a solid enough team that can be middle of the road for now and when he is ready to take over can put them over the top in a year or so." I think I got a little derailed reading some of the other responses but the point was that there are a few teams (like us and Tennessee) that can afford to wait...some others cant. Ok, sounded like you were saying teams can't wait on a QB to develop.
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Post by rangerous on Apr 9, 2015 16:18:47 GMT -5
The problem with taking Mariota at pick 2-6 is that if you take a pick that high he is expected to play and contribute at some point THIS YEAR. IMO a lot of teams are not willing to take a pick this high knowing full well he is a project and wont be ready for 1-2 years. That would have to be a team (like the jets and tennessee) that have a solid enough team that can be middle of the road for now and when he is ready to take over can put them over the top in a year or so. Look at the teams whose names have been connected with Mariota and if they match this scenario: Redskins- No placeholder (RGIII my ass) are at least 2 years away from serious contention and have a suspect HC Philly- Fits the scenario but a trade would be costly. Kelly just might be serious about keeping Bradford. Cleveland- NO QB period. Mariota would have to start almost immediately and that would be a disaster. Bears- Trading up wouldn't be cost prohibitive IF they could include Cutler but who wants him with that contract? and attitude Houston- Hoyer? Mallett? Savage? They pick 16 and could be a sleeper for a trade. The QB's at the top of their roster are the definition of place holders. I dont advocate picking him at 6 for us, I'd rather trade down and grab a lineman. However we do have exactly the kind of scenario that I described. agree with some points but here's the rub. the jets still don't know if genot can be the qb of the future. fitz has a limited shelf life. so at some point they have to start drafting qb's to find one. and it is doubtful that any qb they draft, including mariota, will be able to start from day 1. so whoever they draft will need to sit for a while and the sooner they draft a qb the more they can take advantage of the people they currently have a sit him for a season or so. pushing the qb out to the future just means the qb of the future is put that much further off. and who knows if the jets will have such a great draft position. on the other hand a lineman or just about any other position can start right away.
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Post by Hotman on Apr 9, 2015 16:20:01 GMT -5
I want Mariotta about as much as I wanted Jonny 8-ball.
Pass.
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Post by eboozer32 on Apr 9, 2015 16:49:25 GMT -5
Why does a team have to start Mariota from day one if they draft him? If he needs time, can't start from day one he sits, plain and simple. They're no worse starting someone they have on the roster while MM is learning than they would be if they didn't draft a QB. Man, oh Man!! Wish you'd let that Sig photo go on a little longer!!
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Post by joepnyj1 on Apr 9, 2015 18:05:54 GMT -5
Agreed...but if a team like Cleveland made an outlandish offer for him I think Mac will need to consider it. This is a good problem to have IMO. Cleveland with their two first round picks and last year's clusterfuck of a pick of Manziel seems like the obvious choice to move up (and fleece in the process), but if there is any truth to the rumor going around (that Chip Kelly wants to trade Bradford for Manziel and one first round pick) then it seems unlikely they'd be willing to deal. The rumor has it that they don't want to give up ANY first round picks for Bradford, just even trade Bradford for Manziel. So it seems they have an unrealistic value of their picks, and Manziel (if any of this is true). Their two picks add up to just over our number six - hardly enough to trade away our six for only their two first rounders (which they seem reluctant to part with). Manziel for Bradford? That's nuts
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Apr 9, 2015 18:07:24 GMT -5
Cleveland with their two first round picks and last year's clusterfuck of a pick of Manziel seems like the obvious choice to move up (and fleece in the process), but if there is any truth to the rumor going around (that Chip Kelly wants to trade Bradford for Manziel and one first round pick) then it seems unlikely they'd be willing to deal. The rumor has it that they don't want to give up ANY first round picks for Bradford, just even trade Bradford for Manziel. So it seems they have an unrealistic value of their picks, and Manziel (if any of this is true). Their two picks add up to just over our number six - hardly enough to trade away our six for only their two first rounders (which they seem reluctant to part with). Manziel for Bradford? That's nuts I think the thinking is that Kelly would use that first round pick to move up for Mariota
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Post by joepnyj1 on Apr 9, 2015 18:19:18 GMT -5
Manziel for Bradford? That's nuts I think the thinking is that Kelly would use that first round pick to move up for Mariota Yeah I guess but I think Kelly has lost it. If his team becomes an epic fail he will be back to college ball in no time.
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Post by jetstream23 on Apr 9, 2015 21:49:08 GMT -5
I really just want someone to take him before we have the chance.
If Winston, Mariota, L. Williams are gone we get 1 of the next 3 best players in the Draft. I'd be happy with Fowler, Cooper, White, Ray or Beasley.
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Post by greenwave on Apr 10, 2015 7:40:17 GMT -5
I really just want someone to take him before we have the chance. If Winston, Mariota, L. Williams are gone we get 1 of the next 3 best players in the Draft. I'd be happy with Fowler, Cooper, White, Ray or Beasley. My wish also. My objection to the Mariotta pick is the fact that the Jets have a shot at elite talent at a position where they've been anemic this entire millenium. I want Cooper or White. Assuming Winston goes number one and there are five spots between TB and our pick: shouldn't the Jets be looking to trade up to get Mariotta if they're convinced he's the guy? Something about standing pat and hoping a QB falls into your lap when he could easily go #2 doesn't sit well with me, IF the team is convinced about the player. And IMO, if they're not convinced, they should be getting one of the players that Jetstream has mentioned. Mariotta may hit the Rodgers / Quinn slide and be available in the 20s, who knows? I don't want the Jets to stop his slide just because he's there at 6 and they weren't compelled to get him at #4 or #5.
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Post by jetstream23 on Apr 10, 2015 10:35:35 GMT -5
I really just want someone to take him before we have the chance. If Winston, Mariota, L. Williams are gone we get 1 of the next 3 best players in the Draft. I'd be happy with Fowler, Cooper, White, Ray or Beasley. My wish also. My objection to the Mariotta pick is the fact that the Jets have a shot at elite talent at a position where they've been anemic this entire millenium. I want Cooper or White. Assuming Winston goes number one and there are five spots between TB and our pick: shouldn't the Jets be looking to trade up to get Mariotta if they're convinced he's the guy? Something about standing pat and hoping a QB falls into your lap when he could easily go #2 doesn't sit well with me, IF the team is convinced about the player. And IMO, if they're not convinced, they should be getting one of the players that Jetstream has mentioned. Mariotta may hit the Rodgers / Quinn slide and be available in the 20s, who knows? I don't want the Jets to stop his slide just because he's there at 6 and they weren't compelled to get him at #4 or #5. I am leaning towards OLB / edge rusher at #6 but I won't complain in the slightest if Amari Cooper or Kevin White is a New York Jet.
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Post by MDL JET on Apr 10, 2015 10:46:26 GMT -5
My wish also. My objection to the Mariotta pick is the fact that the Jets have a shot at elite talent at a position where they've been anemic this entire millenium. I want Cooper or White. Assuming Winston goes number one and there are five spots between TB and our pick: shouldn't the Jets be looking to trade up to get Mariotta if they're convinced he's the guy? Something about standing pat and hoping a QB falls into your lap when he could easily go #2 doesn't sit well with me, IF the team is convinced about the player. And IMO, if they're not convinced, they should be getting one of the players that Jetstream has mentioned. Mariotta may hit the Rodgers / Quinn slide and be available in the 20s, who knows? I don't want the Jets to stop his slide just because he's there at 6 and they weren't compelled to get him at #4 or #5. I am leaning towards OLB / edge rusher at #6 but I won't complain in the slightest if Amari Cooper or Kevin White is a New York Jet. Part of me wants to take a WR at 6 just because we haven't drafted an offense guy, let alone at the skills position since what, Santana Moss?? Would be a nice feeling. BUT can't hate them for going with an edge rusher….I guess.
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Post by jetstream23 on Apr 10, 2015 10:54:00 GMT -5
I am leaning towards OLB / edge rusher at #6 but I won't complain in the slightest if Amari Cooper or Kevin White is a New York Jet. Part of me wants to take a WR at 6 just because we haven't drafted an offense guy, let alone at the skills position since what, Santana Moss?? Would be a nice feeling. BUT can't hate them for going with an edge rusher….I guess. One way I look at this is if we DON'T take the Edge rusher at #6 can we get him in the 2nd round? Conversely, if we don't take a WR can we get a good one in the 2nd round? This is why I'm leaning towards OLB/DE at #6. There is a big drop off in my opinion when we get past the 1st round. But I think we'd be able to add an offensive playmaker (either WR or RB) at the top of Round 2. I can see about 4 WRs going in the 1st round, guys like Cooper, White, D. Parker, and probably Jaelen Strong....maybe even B. Perrimen. We could get a Devin Smith or Philip Dorsett at WR in Round 2. I'd be pretty happy with any of those 7 guys if we got the OLB/DE at #6.
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kuntysoze
Full Member
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Post by kuntysoze on Apr 10, 2015 11:44:43 GMT -5
I'm tired of "projects" and "rebuilding". Our team is built to win now and we should try to win now. All that's remaining is the QB.
If we want to go deep in the playoffs this year, we have to hope that Geno takes it to the next level or Gailey can turn Fitzpatrick into Randall Cunningham ver. 2. Mariota isn't taking this team anywhere in 2015.
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