Will This Team Win Another Game?

Touchable
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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 12:04:07 GMT -5

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Post by Touchable on Nov 23, 2015 12:04:07 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 12:00:42 GMT -5 Trades said:

Nov 23, 2015 11:26:43 GMT -5 Touchable said:

I'm jealous of their QB's, yes.

I don't care if those teams are shit at the present moment.

The bottom line is that things are beginning to look up for all of those organizations. And it's because they have a promising young player behind center that they had the balls to gamble on at the top of the draft.

You can't be scared of taking a QB high in the draft and him turning out to be a bust. I can live with that shit because at least we took a shot and swung for the fences. What I can't live with is this silly ass way of thinking that we should depend on some mid-late round QB ever amounting to anything more than a career backup or an 11 year journeyman suddenly turning his entire career around.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't draft a top WB when they have a shot but who exactly have the Jets had that shot at? Certainly not any of those 3. They also took a flyer on Geno when he dropped to the 2nd round which even knowing the results wasn't a horrible idea.

How many of the top teams took their QB in the top of the first round? Steelers, Giants, Colts, Panthers? Everyone else was late 1st, early second or 6th (if you cheat). The rest came through free agency. My point is there is no one way to get to the top.

Here is a list of the QBs taken in the first round since 1980. About half were considered successful. I am not sure how to get the table to format correctly but you can see it better here www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/success_for_quarterbacks_picke.html.

Year Pick Player, drafting team Starts Regular

season QB Rating Playoffs

1999 1 Tim Couch, Browns 59 22-37-0 75.1

1999 2 Donovan McNabb, Eagles 161 98-62-1 85.6 9-7

1999 3 Akili Smith, Bengals 17 3-14-0 52.8

1999 11 Daunte Culpepper, Vikings 100 41-59-0 87.8 2-2

1999 12 Cade McNown, Bears 15 3-12-0 67.7

2000 18 Chad Pennington, Jets 81 44-37-0 90.1 2-4

2001 1 Michael Vick, Falcons 112 59-50-1 80.4 2-3

2002 1 David Carr, Texans 79 23-56-0 74.9

2002 3 Joey Harrington, Lions 76 26-50-0 69.4

2002 32 Patrick Ramsey, Redskins 24 10-14-0 74.9

2003 1 Carson Palmer, Bengals 143 70-73-0 86.3 0-2

2003 7 Byron Leftwich, Jaguars 50 24-26-0 78.9 0-1

2003 19 Kyle Boller, Ravens 47 20-27-0 69.5

2003 22 Rex Grossman, Bears 47 25-22-0 71.4 2-2

2004 1 Eli Manning, Chargers 167 91-76-0 82.4 18-3

2004 4 Philip Rivers, Giants 144 88-56-0 95.7 4-5

2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers 158 106-52-0 93.9 10-5

2004 22 J.P. Losman, Bills 33 10-23-0 75.6

2005 1 Alex Smith, 49ers 105 57-47-1 82.8 1-2

2005 24 Aaron Rodgers, Packers 103 70-33-0 106.0 6-5

2005 25 Jason Campbell, Redskins 79 32-47-0 81.7

2006 3 Vince Young, Titans 50 31-19-0 74.4 0-1

2006 10 Matt Leinart, Cardinals 18 8-10-0 70.2

2006 11 Jay Cutler, Broncos 119 61-58-0 85.2 1-1

2007 1 JaMarcus Russell, Raiders 25 7-18-0 65.2

2007 22 Brady Quinn, Browns 20 4-16-0 64.4

2008 3 Matt Ryan, Falcons 110 66-44-0 94.1 1-4

2008 18 Joe Flacco, Ravens 112 72-40-0 84.8 10-5

2009 1 Matthew Stafford, Lions 77 35-42-0 83.6 0-2

2009 5 Mark Sanchez, Jets 70 37-33-0 74.1 4-2

2009 17 Josh Freeman, Buccaneers 60 24-36-0 77.8

2010 1 Sam Bradford, Rams 49 18-30-1 79.3

2010 25 Tim Tebow, Broncos 16 8-6-0 75.3 1-1

2011 1 Cam Newton, Panthers 62 30-31-1 85.4 1-2

2011 8 Jake Locker, Titans 23 9-14-0 79.0

2011 10 Blaine Gabbert, Jaguars 27 5-22-0 66.8

2011 12 Christian Ponder, Vikings 36 14-21-1 75.9

2012 1 Andrew Luck, Colts 48 33-15-0 86.6 3-3

2012 2 Robert Griffin III, Redskins 35 14-21-0 90.6 0-1

2012 8 Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins 48 23-25-0 84.0

2012 22 Brandon Weeden, Browns 21 5-16-0 72.5

2013 16 EJ Manuel, Bills 14 6-8-0 78.5

2014 3 Blake Bortles, Jaguars 13 3-10-0 69.5

2014 22 Johnny Manziel, Browns 2 0-2-0 42.0

2014 32 Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings 12 6-6-0 85.2

I'm totally fine with a 50/50 success rate

Because once you get beyond the 1st round, those odds decrease DRAMATICALLY.

If we're set to just roll with Fitz and Petty...then odds are we're going to be stuck in this rut for at least another couple of years.

And this shit is beyond played out at this point.

sec.101row23
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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 12:10:35 GMT -5

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Post by sec.101row23 on Nov 23, 2015 12:10:35 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 11:26:43 GMT -5 Touchable said:

Nov 23, 2015 11:17:31 GMT -5 Trades said:

I agree we need a QB but are you honestly saying you are jealous of perennial bottom dwellers because their young QBs have played ok? They are collectively 11-19. We have our own issues but those teams have been drafting in the top 5 for a decade. Yes they have had some good games recently but I am not ready to think they are great. Only the Titans have an equal record with us and they are all in TERRIBLE divisions and still won't make the playoffs. Sure they have an upside but we could have been saying the same thing about Bradford with the Rams, Stafford with the Lions and RG3 with the Redskins a few years ago. Those teams now have a QB with good potential and about 28 other holes on their rosters.

I think the real lesson we could learn from Tennessee and Jacksonville is that a rookie QB doesn't necessarily equate to a loss and a veteran doesn't equate to wins (especially an injured one that was average at best when healthy). I say go with Geno or Petty and figure things out for next year rather than getting average play from a guy that we know isn't our future.

I'm jealous of their QB's, yes.

I don't care if those teams are shit at the present moment.

The bottom line is that things are beginning to look up for all of those organizations. And it's because they have a promising young player behind center that they had the balls to gamble on at the top of the draft.

You can't be scared of taking a QB high in the draft and him turning out to be a bust. I can live with that shit because at least we took a shot and swung for the fences. What I can't live with is this silly ass way of thinking that we should depend on some mid-late round QB ever amounting to anything more than a career backup or an 11 year journeyman suddenly turning his entire career around.

Agreed, I would trade the Jets roster and cap situation with Tampa's and Oakland's in a heart beat right now.

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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 12:17:41 GMT -5

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Post by Trades on Nov 23, 2015 12:17:41 GMT -5

but they also took chances on Sanchez and Geno. It isn't like they aren't trying to find a QB we are just losing on that flip of a coin.They have drafted a QB (granted many in the later rounds) 8 times in since 2000. Since 2000 the Jets have taken 2 QBs in the 1st rnd, 2 in the 2nd, 1 in the 5th, 2 in the 6th and one in the 7th. So that is actually half in the first 2 rounds. My point is that they are trying but not hitting for what it is worth.

They have also taken chances in Free Agency at QB including Testeverde and Favre among others with varying success. And I will add if it were easy everyone would have a top QB.

Last Edit: Nov 23, 2015 12:18:08 GMT -5 by Trades

Goodell is a hypocrite

"I'm 80 years old and I want results now," the Jets dismissed Coach Pete Carroll today after one season and replaced him with Rich Kotite.

"I'm entitled to some enjoyment, and that means winning," said Hess today, virtually branding the team as quitters under Carroll for their late-season collapse. Their five straight defeats insured a losing record for the 18th time in 35 seasons and entrenched the Jets' reputation as a perennial losing franch

Paradis
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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 12:37:30 GMT -5

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Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 12:37:30 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 11:25:11 GMT -5 HawkeyeJet said:

I get the angst over the Jets "never drafting skill guys", but in reality, over the past decade or so, the championship teams aren't teams loaded with offensive skill guys taken early in the draft.

There are 2 positions really that the Jets have lacked to take them to a different level. A competent QB(we aren't talking Tom Brady or Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan or Flacco level can do)and a legitimate edge rusher. Those are key positions in the NFL and the Jets have not had good players at either of those positions for quite awhile.

They haven't "ignored" it as some say, they just have whiffed. Sanchez washed out. Geno Washed out. Coples washed out(which was stupid to think he was an edge rusher to begin with). I think they completely understand the importance there, they just have whiffed. Doesn't necessarily make it better, but it's not as if they are clueless as to what it takes to build a successful team.

The offensive playmaker stuff in the draft is one of the most overblown things discussed, in my opinion.

There is not a lot of proven success building a team that way. If there was, the Lions would be perennial contenders and the Steelers would be crap.

I'm not saying that having playmakers isn't important, but going through the first and second round to get them isn't always the best success model either(outside of QB obviously).

I disagree...to an extent.

I concede we've tried our luck with QBs in Sanchez and Geno... ("meh" for a team that knew they had to move on from Pennington since back 2006-2007)
AND I guess we've flirted with edge rushers in Gholston and Coples. Not exactly getting in done in the scouting room are we.

The lack of impact players on offense is a concern however. How you could argue that is baffling. BUT it's intimately tied to how fucking terrible the picks we've made - have been. Bust, misses, and just poor selections based on what's available and what we needed.

ex. This team was in desperate need for an playmaker on offense, and we'd recently let go of Keller. In 2013, after selecting Wilkerson & Coples we took Richardson and left Eifert on the board. Ridiculous. I don't care if richardson won DROTY awards... who gives a fuck. That was not well managed. That's called not coming to work prepared.

There's a zillion examples of the same story with this team.

L. Williams... why? BPA? Does NE draft 1st rnd QBs who are the BPA? no, because they don't need them.
D. Smith... Was not the best WR on the board. Poor evaluation.
L. Mauldin..
B. Petty

C. Pryor... Cooks? Benjamin? Carr? Bridgewater?
J. Amaro
D. McDougle
S. Evans
J. Saunders
D. Dozier

D. Milliner
S. Richardson
G. Smith
B. Winters

Q. Coples
S. Hill
D. Davis

M. Wilkerson
K. Ellis
B. Powell

K. Wilson
V. Ducasse
J. Mcknight

M. Sanchez
S. Greene

V. Gholston
D. Keller
D. Lowery

What the fuck?! Could that list be anymore shittier?? Not only do we not go after enough offensive weapons, but the ones we do go after are clueless selections! There's a couple defensive lineman (who do anything BUT lead the league in sacks). THAT'S IT.

L. Williams huh... was that the pick boys? that was the one was it...

Last Edit: Nov 23, 2015 12:43:51 GMT -5 by Paradis

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Paradis Site Supporter Ballin'! Posts: 11,740	Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 12:41:20 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 12:41:20 GMT -5 Looks at the Bengals offense last night. CIN: -A totally homegrown Oline that they just restocked again this year -AJ Green, M. Jones, M Sanu... great picks. -Bernard & Hill -Eifert -Dalton
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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 12:56:26 GMT -5

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Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 12:56:26 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 11:08:26 GMT -5 sec.101row23 said:

Nov 23, 2015 10:21:10 GMT -5 Paradis said:

It's my belief that we just haven't been getting it done with our draft picks - and it continues to show up with our inconsistent week to week play. It's more complicated than that, but FAs are meant to supplement, not fill out a roster.

FAs don't bond together
FAs don't develop together
FAs aren't tied to the franchise

GB, CIN and a couple others have over 40+ (i think 49 in GBs case) of their 53 through the draft.

We've consistently muffed too many of our picks over the last ten years. And it's not even that hard. Honestly. I'd love to see an experiment where a franchise lets a draft forum junkie draft for them. These teams out think themselves.

On on a side note I see you still have Mike Williams in your pic, sucks that he went down this year because him and Deon Cain on the field at the same time would have been really fun to watch.

Hey buddy, missed 'round here. May as well jump back in now that we're already looking into the draft hey? faaaack.

I'm bummed about Williams. Think he would have had an opportunity to fight for the top spot. There hasn't been a clear undisputed #1 this year IMO... instead, now we gotta worry about possible long term concerns for Williams' health

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The Tax Returns Are in Kenya
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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 13:36:34 GMT -5

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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Nov 23, 2015 13:36:34 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 11:15:09 GMT -5 Touchable said:

Nov 23, 2015 10:56:59 GMT -5 The Tax Returns Are in Kenya said:

5-11 is better than last year and was still too far out for either of the top QB's though

Not going to be the case this time

In all likelihood, teams like the Titans, Bucs, Jags, and Raiders are going to be picking in the Top 10-12...and they've already obtained their young QB's.

You also have a dominant DL (Bosa) who will go in the Top 3-5 and a pair of bigtime OT's (Tunsil and Stanley). Not to mention kids like Myles Jack and Vernon Hargreaves.

The Jets will have an excellent shot at one of the top QB's if they're picking in the Top 12.

Then there's:
49/ers. Saints, Rams, Lions, Cowboys, Eagles, Bears, Chargers, Browns, Ravens. all doing worse than the Jets at the moment, and could be looking for a QB

Touchable
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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 13:44:43 GMT -5 The Tax Returns Are in Kenya likes this

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Post by Touchable on Nov 23, 2015 13:44:43 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 13:36:34 GMT -5 The Tax Returns Are in Kenya said:

Nov 23, 2015 11:15:09 GMT -5 Touchable said:

Not going to be the case this time

In all likelihood, teams like the Titans, Bucs, Jags, and Raiders are going to be picking in the Top 10-12...and they've already obtained their young QB's.

You also have a dominant DL (Bosa) who will go in the Top 3-5 and a pair of bigtime OT's (Tunsil and Stanley). Not to mention kids like Myles Jack and Vernon Hargreaves.

The Jets will have an excellent shot at one of the top QB's if they're picking in the Top 12.

Then there's:
49/ers. Saints, Rams, Lions, Cowboys, Eagles, Bears, Chargers, Browns, Ravens. all doing worse than the Jets at the moment, and could be looking for a QB

This is all under the potential scenario of the Jets finishing 5-11, which I don't think they will, so it's really a moot point.

We're probably going to end up 7-9 or 8-8 and pick in the 15-20 area. So barring a trade up, it's doubtful that we get one of the top QB's.

Which means we're probably looking at someone like Carson Wentz, Christian Hackenberg, Gunner Kiel or Cody Kessler in the 2nd/3rd round.

And I'd absolutely take one of them (preferably Wentz) because it is beyond ridiculous to count on Petty being the guy. At least you need to add another young QB to push him.

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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 15:25:37 GMT -5

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Post by Trades on Nov 23, 2015 15:25:37 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 12:41:20 GMT -5 Paradis said:

Looks at the Bengals offense last night.

CIN:
-A totally homegrown Oline that they just restocked again this year
-AJ Green, M. Jones, M Sanu... great picks.
-Bernard & Hill
-Eifert
-Dalton

And how did that work out for them? Losing 34-31 is no different than losing 24-17.

Goodell is a hypocrite

"I'm 80 years old and I want results now," the Jets dismissed Coach Pete Carroll today after one season and replaced him with Rich Kotite.

"I'm entitled to some enjoyment, and that means winning," said Hess today, virtually branding the team as quitters under Carroll for their late-season collapse. Their five straight defeats insured a losing record for the 18th time in 35 seasons and entrenched the Jets' reputation as a perennial losing franch

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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 15:42:48 GMT -5

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Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 15:42:48 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 15:25:37 GMT -5 Trades said:

Nov 23, 2015 12:41:20 GMT -5 Paradis said:

Looks at the Bengals offense last night.

CIN:
-A totally homegrown Oline that they just restocked again this year
-AJ Green, M. Jones, M Sanu... great picks.
-Bernard & Hill
-Eifert
-Dalton

And how did that work out for them? Losing 34-31 is no different than losing 24-17.

They went into that game 8-1. I'll take that over sucking ass weekly.

What exactly is your position on the issue, el duce?

Last Edit: Nov 23, 2015 15:43:06 GMT -5 by Paradis

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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 15:54:14 GMT -5

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Post by Trades on Nov 23, 2015 15:54:14 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 15:42:48 GMT -5 Paradis said:

Nov 23, 2015 15:25:37 GMT -5 Trades said:

And how did that work out for them? Losing 34-31 is no different than losing 24-17.

They went into that game 8-1. I'll take that over sucking ass weekly.

What exactly is your position on the issue, el duce?

I agree with that but I was replying to :

Looks at the Bengals offense last night.

CIN:

-A totally homegrown Oline that they just restocked again this year

-AJ Green, M. Jones, M Sanu... great picks.

-Bernard & Hill

-Eifert

-Dalton

Goodell is a hypocrite

"I'm 80 years old and I want results now," the Jets dismissed Coach Pete Carroll today after one season and replaced him with Rich Kotite.

"I'm entitled to some enjoyment, and that means winning," said Hess today, virtually branding the team as quitters under Carroll for their late-season collapse. Their five straight defeats insured a losing record for the 18th time in 35 seasons and entrenched the Jets' reputation as a perennial losing franch

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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 15:58:59 GMT -5

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Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 15:58:59 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 15:54:14 GMT -5 Trades said:

Nov 23, 2015 15:42:48 GMT -5 Paradis said:

They went into that game 8-1. I'll take that over sucking ass weekly.

What exactly is your position on the issue, el duce?

I agree with that but I was replying to :

I don't care, that was contrarian reply that only served to be a hangnail in the conversation.

You and I both know what i was getting at. The Bengals scouting department has a done a great job of stocking their offense with talent and it's translated well on the field. They had a high caliber offense in carson years with Chad/TJ and in a matter of 2-3 years were able to completely reset with franchise talent all around.

We are LIGHTYEARS behind the Bengals when it comes to grooming talent.

Last Edit: Nov 23, 2015 16:00:26 GMT -5 by Paradis

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Paradis Site Supporter Ballin'! Posts: 11,740	Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 15:59:54 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 15:59:54 GMT -5 btw, who are you? lol
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Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 16:09:17 GMT -5

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Post by Trades on Nov 23, 2015 16:09:17 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2015 15:59:54 GMT -5 Paradis said:

btw, who are you? lol

Same person I was on JI for 10 years and have been on here since the day we started. Yes I can be a sarcastic dick at times but it wasn't meant to be solely contrarian. Would I prefer the Bengals O players and especially Dalton butthat amazing Bengals offense lost to the same team we lost to and we scored more points against them. That amazing Bengals team has also lost every game they made it to in the playoffs since 1990! I think that is a pretty important distinction, no? The Jets have been much more successful in recent history even with our crap shoot at QB.

Goodell is a hypocrite

"I'm 80 years old and I want results now," the Jets dismissed Coach Pete Carroll today after one season and replaced him with Rich Kotite.

"I'm entitled to some enjoyment, and that means winning," said Hess today, virtually branding the team as quitters under Carroll for their late-season collapse. Their five straight defeats insured a losing record for the 18th time in 35 seasons and entrenched the Jets' reputation as a perennial losing franch

jdeacon Full Member Balls Deep Posts: 305	Will This Team Win Another Game? Nov 23, 2015 16:09:57 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by jdeacon on Nov 23, 2015 16:09:57 GMT -5 For the draft guys on the board, Wwat is the qb crop this year? I haven't had a chance to watch a lot of cfb this year and am way behind

Will This Team Win Another Game?

Post by Touchable on Nov 23, 2015 12:04:07 GMT -5

Post by sec.101row23 on Nov 23, 2015 12:10:35 GMT -5

Post by Trades on Nov 23, 2015 12:17:41 GMT -5

Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 12:37:30 GMT -5

Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 12:41:20 GMT -5

Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 12:56:26 GMT -5

Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Nov 23, 2015 13:36:34 GMT -5

Post by Touchable on Nov 23, 2015 13:44:43 GMT -5

Post by Trades on Nov 23, 2015 15:25:37 GMT -5

Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 15:42:48 GMT -5

Post by Trades on Nov 23, 2015 15:54:14 GMT -5

Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 15:58:59 GMT -5

Post by Paradis on Nov 23, 2015 15:59:54 GMT -5

Post by Trades on Nov 23, 2015 16:09:17 GMT -5

Post by jdeacon on Nov 23, 2015 16:09:57 GMT -5