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Post by persiussa on Dec 17, 2014 17:15:29 GMT -5
In my opinion if you want the qb you have to lose, any other position there's just as good of a chance the 2nd 3rd or 4th guy off the board will be as good as the first. If we were set at qb id unquestionably root for the win. What you and everyone else who want to Jets to lose are failing to appreciate is that is doesn't matter one lick what anybody roots for as far as where the team will wind up in the draft. I root for the Jets to win because I enjoy seeing them win. If it gives you and a lot of other fans pleasure to see them lose, well, go ahead and enjoy every loss. Regardless, the Jets will wind up in exactly the same place in the draft no matter what anybody is rooting for. I'm not really arguing with your premise. I did root for the jets to lose because I wanted one of the top two qbs but I'm smart enough to know that for every other position where you pick doesn't matter. Who do you think the bills would rather have sammy Watkins for 2 first round picks or take Odell beckham with their original pick and still have a first round pick this year too. Scott write on his latest draft podcast did a draft redo for 2014 and Watkins was the 3rd receiver off the board behind Evans and beckham. Many second round players were in the first round and Derrick Carr was the 2nd pick in the draft with bridge water in the top 10. The draft is a total crap shoot and even the first qb picked isn't always the best but with qb I feel that usually the first one picked has the best chance to succeed but I agree about heisman winners being dangerous. Im under no illusion that we absolutely set ourselves back with the win but we might have. Well find out. Until then I'll let it play out and not freak out.
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Post by TheMo on Dec 17, 2014 17:29:45 GMT -5
Hahahahahaha that is logic... now I've seen it all l o l Well if you can stop laughing long enough to be able to actually engage your brain, how about an answer to Warner Wolf's point? In 80 years of the Heisman only 3 Heisman-winning QB's have done anything: Staubach, Plunkett, and Testaverde. If you want to pile up losses for a chance at Mariota, enjoy yourself. I'd rather see them win. OK. Now you can go back to laughing. Palmer and Newton have both posted 85+ passer ratings over the course of their careers. I wouldn't call that doing nothing. Winning the Heismann doesn't guarantee success, but it doesn't mean that you are guaranteed to fail either. Correlation does not equal causation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 17:30:17 GMT -5
What you and everyone else who want to Jets to lose are failing to appreciate is that is doesn't matter one lick what anybody roots for as far as where the team will wind up in the draft. I root for the Jets to win because I enjoy seeing them win. If it gives you and a lot of other fans pleasure to see them lose, well, go ahead and enjoy every loss. Regardless, the Jets will wind up in exactly the same place in the draft no matter what anybody is rooting for. I'm not really arguing with your premise. I did root for the jets to lose because I wanted one of the top two qbs but I'm smart enough to know that for every other position where you pick doesn't matter. Who do you think the bills would rather have sammy Watkins for 2 first round picks or take Odell beckham with their original pick and still have a first round pick this year too. Scott write on his latest draft podcast did a draft redo for 2014 and Watkins was the 3rd receiver off the board behind Evans and beckham. Many second round players were in the first round and Derrick Carr was the 2nd pick in the draft with bridge water in the top 10. The draft is a total crap shoot and even the first qb picked isn't always the best but with qb I feel that usually the first one picked has the best chance to succeed but I agree about heisman winners being dangerous. Im under no illusion that we absolutely set ourselves back with the win but we might have. Well find out. Until then I'll let it play out and not freak out. That is my whole point. No matter how good any single player looks in the draft there's no telling how he will actually do in the NFL. And so moving a few slots up or down is not really all that important. That's why I keep mentioning the perennially winning teams. They seem to do well just about every season, get low draft picks as a result, then they just keep on winning anyway. I'd like to enjoy myself watching the team get a few wins, then hope like hell we pick up the scouts and FO personnel that will let us become perennial winners too. I think it must defy the odds that the Jets have done so poorly for so long. And it has absolutely nothing to do with what their fans root for.
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Post by 2foolish on Dec 17, 2014 17:33:30 GMT -5
Eat a big creamy dick. no, seriously. Winning that game did absolutely nothing for this organization. But it did something for fans who actually want to see their team win. i get what ur saying but the time to win was during that 8 game losing streak...gotta think macro for the organization now...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 17:37:33 GMT -5
Well if you can stop laughing long enough to be able to actually engage your brain, how about an answer to Warner Wolf's point? In 80 years of the Heisman only 3 Heisman-winning QB's have done anything: Staubach, Plunkett, and Testaverde. If you want to pile up losses for a chance at Mariota, enjoy yourself. I'd rather see them win. OK. Now you can go back to laughing. Palmer and Newton have both posted 85+ passer ratings over the course of their careers. I wouldn't call that doing nothing. Winning the Heismann doesn't guarantee success, but it doesn't mean that you are guaranteed to fail either. Correlation does not equal causation. Palmer has shown a real inability to win in the playoffs. I would not want to count on him if I needed a win. Very average QB at best. And are you really suggesting you would want to pile up a bunch of losses to wind up with the likes of him? Newton is still a bit too new to draw any conclusions. But so far he isn't exactly tearing up the NFL either. I certainly would not want to pile up losses for the likes of him either. Correlation indeed does not imply causation. But it would be a fool who ignored the 80-year track record of the Heisman. And there is actually good reason to expect that someone who does well in college might not do well in the NFL. The types of offenses are pretty different for the most part.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 17:40:47 GMT -5
But it did something for fans who actually want to see their team win. i get what ur saying but the time to win was during that 8 game losing streak...gotta think macro for the organization now... Trust me. I was rooting for wins then too. And safe in the knowledge that my rooting, or anybody's rooting for that matter, does not affect the Jets' draft position in the slightest, I will continue to root for wins. All together now...J! E! T! S!...Jets, Jets, JETS!
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Post by gangrene on Dec 17, 2014 17:43:55 GMT -5
Barely won against a bad team led by Charlie Whitehurst of all people. At least with a chance at Mariota we would had had some hope, if you don't have a QB you don't have shit. Can't argue with the first point. We should have won bigger. I agree you need a QB, but do recall the Steelers won a SB with Neil O'Donnel. After the Jets picked him up, we saw how much of a QB that guy was. The Steelers and Neil O'Donnell got their ass kicked. Larry Brown the cornerback that Neil O'Donnell threw two interceptions to, won MVP for the Cowboys. Brown signed a giant free agent contract with the Raiders in the following off-season and disappeared off the face of the earth a rich man.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 17:46:38 GMT -5
Can't argue with the first point. We should have won bigger. I agree you need a QB, but do recall the Steelers won a SB with Neil O'Donnel. After the Jets picked him up, we saw how much of a QB that guy was. The Steelers and Neil O'Donnell got their ass kicked. Larry Brown the cornerback that Neil O'Donnell threw two interceptions to, won MVP for the Cowboys. Brown signed a giant free agent contract with the Raiders in the following off-season and disappeared off the face of the earth a rich man. Just like Jamarcus Russel. Minus the SB appearance, of course.
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Post by TheMo on Dec 17, 2014 17:48:53 GMT -5
I'm not really arguing with your premise. I did root for the jets to lose because I wanted one of the top two qbs but I'm smart enough to know that for every other position where you pick doesn't matter. Who do you think the bills would rather have sammy Watkins for 2 first round picks or take Odell beckham with their original pick and still have a first round pick this year too. Scott write on his latest draft podcast did a draft redo for 2014 and Watkins was the 3rd receiver off the board behind Evans and beckham. Many second round players were in the first round and Derrick Carr was the 2nd pick in the draft with bridge water in the top 10. The draft is a total crap shoot and even the first qb picked isn't always the best but with qb I feel that usually the first one picked has the best chance to succeed but I agree about heisman winners being dangerous. Im under no illusion that we absolutely set ourselves back with the win but we might have. Well find out. Until then I'll let it play out and not freak out. That is my whole point. No matter how good any single player looks in the draft there's no telling how he will actually do in the NFL. And so moving a few slots up or down is not really all that important. That's why I keep mentioning the perennially winning teams. They seem to do well just about every season, get low draft picks as a result, then they just keep on winning anyway. I'd like to enjoy myself watching the team get a few wins, then hope like hell we pick up the scouts and FO personnel that will let us become perennial winners too. I think it must defy the odds that the Jets have done so poorly for so long. And it has absolutely nothing to do with what their fans root for. Okay this Okay this I can agree with. Yes we can agree on the fact that there is a even bigger issue that the Jets have absolutely shitty scouting. BUT once you get a good set of people evaluating the prospects getting them their ideal prospects at positions of needs is much better than a 5-11. No more barking back and forth at each other, this is a serious question I have for you: What will these last 3 wins mean for this team even this season? Especially that win we eeked out against a really bad team last Sunday?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 18:24:20 GMT -5
That is my whole point. No matter how good any single player looks in the draft there's no telling how he will actually do in the NFL. And so moving a few slots up or down is not really all that important. That's why I keep mentioning the perennially winning teams. They seem to do well just about every season, get low draft picks as a result, then they just keep on winning anyway. I'd like to enjoy myself watching the team get a few wins, then hope like hell we pick up the scouts and FO personnel that will let us become perennial winners too. I think it must defy the odds that the Jets have done so poorly for so long. And it has absolutely nothing to do with what their fans root for. Okay this Okay this I can agree with. Yes we can agree on the fact that there is a even bigger issue that the Jets have absolutely shitty scouting. BUT once you get a good set of people evaluating the prospects getting them their ideal prospects at positions of needs is much better than a 5-11. No more barking back and forth at each other, this is a serious question I have for you: What will these last 3 wins mean for this team even this season? Especially that win we eeked out against a really bad team last Sunday? It's not what the wins will mean to the team. It's what they will mean to me as a fan. I am not on the coaching staff or from the FO. I am just a fan who wants to see his team win whenever they play. As I have said, moving a few positions in the draft is no big deal, and it's not worth it to me to watch them pile up losses to improve draft position. And it would be especially sweet if they could bump the Pats out of the #1 seed. Just a bit of end-of-the season cheer, in a season that has had very little to cheer about. And as for beating the Fins on the last day, I hope that speaks for itself. Nothing like a meal of fresh fish for starting the offseason on the right foot. Tasted pretty good last year.
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Post by TheMo on Dec 17, 2014 18:31:53 GMT -5
Okay this Okay this I can agree with. Yes we can agree on the fact that there is a even bigger issue that the Jets have absolutely shitty scouting. BUT once you get a good set of people evaluating the prospects getting them their ideal prospects at positions of needs is much better than a 5-11. No more barking back and forth at each other, this is a serious question I have for you: What will these last 3 wins mean for this team even this season? Especially that win we eeked out against a really bad team last Sunday? It's not what the wins will mean to the team. It's what they will mean to me as a fan. I am not on the coaching staff or from the FO. I am just a fan who wants to see his team win whenever they play. As I have said, moving a few positions in the draft is no big deal, and it's not worth it to me to watch them pile up losses to improve draft position. And it would be especially sweet if they could bump the Pats out of the #1 seed. Just a bit of end-of-the season cheer, in a season that has had very little to cheer about. And as for beating the Fins on the last day, I hope that speaks for itself. Nothing like a meal of fresh fish for starting the offseason on the right foot. Tasted pretty good last year. Idk maybe we just view things completely differently in terms of what we root for. If the wins mean bad things for the team, I don't want them. I want the best thing for this team, and beating the Titans did nothing for me.
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Post by Peebag on Dec 17, 2014 18:32:47 GMT -5
Is Woody trolling us?
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Post by Bing© in Buffalo Chairman on Dec 17, 2014 18:41:34 GMT -5
Paint chips and repeated head injury comes to mind when I read the thread.....
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Post by 2foolish on Dec 17, 2014 19:00:11 GMT -5
i get what ur saying but the time to win was during that 8 game losing streak...gotta think macro for the organization now... Trust me. I was rooting for wins then too. And safe in the knowledge that my rooting, or anybody's rooting for that matter, does not affect the Jets' draft position in the slightest, I will continue to root for wins. All together now...J! E! T! S!...Jets, Jets, JETS! i'm sorry i can't...i'm not speaking to the Jets right now...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 19:15:53 GMT -5
It's not what the wins will mean to the team. It's what they will mean to me as a fan. I am not on the coaching staff or from the FO. I am just a fan who wants to see his team win whenever they play. As I have said, moving a few positions in the draft is no big deal, and it's not worth it to me to watch them pile up losses to improve draft position. And it would be especially sweet if they could bump the Pats out of the #1 seed. Just a bit of end-of-the season cheer, in a season that has had very little to cheer about. And as for beating the Fins on the last day, I hope that speaks for itself. Nothing like a meal of fresh fish for starting the offseason on the right foot. Tasted pretty good last year. Idk maybe we just view things completely differently in terms of what we root for. If the wins mean bad things for the team, I don't want them. I want the best thing for this team, and beating the Titans did nothing for me. Well the point here is I don't think a few wins for the Jets means much in terms of bad things fr the team. No matter how many end-of-season wins they get at this point, they will still draft at a higher slot than the Pats, Steelers, and Packers. But even if we drafted in the #1 position, do you really think we would overtake those teams anytime soon? It would be much more important I think to get better scouts, coaches, and FO people.
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