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Post by DDNYjets on Mar 24, 2016 12:23:50 GMT -5
Chicken or the egg.
"We want you to accept us so we can help you with this problem and not be scared of you"
"We want people that look like you to stop blowing us up so we can accept you and not be scared of you"
What gives.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Mar 25, 2016 3:41:44 GMT -5
I’m curious what it is we should be doing which we’re not. Even if you seal off the borders to refugees you still have a problem with inbred radicalism through the ghettos and prisons. Like Turk said earlier, I’m not even sure that ends the problem. What would America do if Mexicans (or of mexican descent) were muslim? Seal off the borders OK, but you still have millions on your soil, some productive legal citizens, others are trying to get by, and others are just not fitting in for various reasons. What do you do? The odds are all in their favor. You can stop 99% of these random attacks and still lose because they have to succeed only once. I'm just going to leave this link here for people to read. I'm not going to get into any argument about religion as I believe all religion is evil and until the human race educates itself away for this one religion will always be looking to destroy the other. I see so much rhetoric about closing borders and not accepting refugees that the west displaced in the first place but everyone is looking over the fact that the majority of these horrific acts are being carried out by Europeans who are petty criminals and not even "true Muslims" before they are radicalised. Stop the madness"integrated into society," is the key phrase in that article IMO and I think it's a major reason why Europe has a somewhat bigger challenge than America right now. My perception is that Muslim-Americans are here for the same reasons my family came here from Ireland two generations ago, a better life and more opportunity. In large part I believe that Muslim-Americans are finding that better life and those better opportunities as they integrate with society. Europe seems to have a much more isolated, ghettoized population of Muslims. When people are put in a corner (and it's the dirtiest, darkest corner of the room) and feel disenfranchised then it's not surprising that a small percentage act out in an aggressive manner....and that others of the same population may turn a blind eye or not cooperate with authorities doing an investigation. Belgium has what, 11 million people, France has a population of about 66 million? Yet the problem with young, radical Islamists seems much more prevalent that what we're seeing here in America right now with a population of 320+ million. Again, just my perception. You’ve hit the nail on the head. Yes, this stems from assimilating mass migrations over decades. Have we done enough? Depending on your political leanings, your answer may vary. One could say fuck yeah. You can come to my country, I’ll heal you for free no questions asked. I’ll give you money every month to get by. I’ll give you even more money if you have a lot of kids. I'll give you free daycare center so you can look for a job. I’ll give you free schooling all the way through college. If you get fired from you job, I’ll give you 75% of your salary for up to 3 years till you find another one…This list is really long but you can see where I’m getting at. Does that equate to assimilating? Probably not but it fucking helps AND attracts people. Who’s at fault and when did we miss the fork in the road. I don’t know. Is America doing it better? Ghettoisation doesn’t exist in the US? Someone loses faith in the system in the US and they'll end up selling drugs or join a gang. In France, there’s a chance he could go radical Islam. Is that because we’re doing things worse or just America lucked out in it’s migratory population ?
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Post by 32Green on Mar 25, 2016 8:46:08 GMT -5
What Europe needs to do to stop the next Brussels
By Ralph Peters March 23, 2016 | 9:04pm
What used to be bitter slums are now militant colonies.
The Muslim guts of European cities, from Brussels to Marseilles, and the high-rise banlieues of Paris (designed by the left as earthly paradises) or the grubby Stadtteile of Cologne or Hamburg, are no longer way-stations for readjusting immigrants. They’re imperial holdings of a bloodthirsty caliphate, poisoned with the spirit of jihad.
And the Islamist fanatics who rule from the shadows intend to slaughter the trusting aborigines, whose tribal chiefs are enchanted by the trinkets of political correctness — as we were reminded, again, Tuesday when terrorists killed 31 and injured hundreds in a double-barrel attack in Brussels.
Will Islam really conquer Europe? Of course not. But reality leaves Islamist terrorists unconvinced and unmoved.
And they’ve already disrupted societies, upended politics and seized strategic ground at Europe’s heart: The Brussels attacks were symbolically perfect, striking not only a national capital, but the headquarters of the European Union and NATO.
Consider Belgium. The police and intelligence organizations (mindlessly divided between Flemish- and French-speakers) couldn’t crack the local Muslim community. Contributing scores of jihadis to ISIS in Syria and Iraq, Molenbeek and neighboring slums also protected the terrorists in their midst.
Some locals must have known. Many more must have suspected. But none warned the authorities that hundreds of their “fellow Belgians” faced impending attacks.
The roots of radicalism had gone so deep that support for the fanatics trumped even the desire for self-protection. Of course, the locals saw that, in the wake of multiple terror attacks and arrests, they’d face suspicion, scrutiny and an end to the craven tolerance of their crimes.
But nobody talked. Nobody will.
Nonetheless, “humanitarian” groups will continue to defend the “rights” to government financial, medical and housing support for those who send their sons on jihad and beat their daughters to death.
Which brings us to the question: What can Europeans do? If they somehow summon the strength of will? Before the situation worsens monstrously?
Apart from the obvious measure of restricting migration that seeks only to feed at the public trough, there are three steps Europeans could (but likely won’t) take:
First, work on the families. In the Islamic cultures of the Middle East and North Africa, the family is the fortress. European states need laws that permanently deny all further state assistance, including subsidized housing, to the extended families of terrorists and their abettors.
Collective punishment? Islamist terror is a collective crime. As the residents of Molenbeek just reminded us. You have to do what works. And we need to remember the elementary truth that receiving countries owe immigrants nothing beyond their physical safety. We’re not in their debt, they’re in ours.
Second, not only resident status, but citizenship must be revoked from anyone affiliated with terror — including birthright citizenship. We must stop letting left-wing activists creatively interpret international law to protect monsters bent on massacre. The first human right is for law-abiding citizens to be able to live in peace, free of bodily harm.
Third — and toughest — the Europeans need to find ways to break up the Islamist colonies that even the police prefer to avoid. Just as European colonialists brought smallpox to the natives of the Americas, the jihadi colonists bring their plague of fanaticism.
Even in our own country, where a different class of Muslim immigrant — largely educated, ambitious and law-abiding — means we don’t face the crisis Europe does, the toughest problems we do face come when Muslims from underdeveloped states are allowed to immigrate in mass and concentrate in one area.
That lets them cling to their old culture and language, instead of learning English and digesting our social values. Note the way we’ve mishandled Somalis, who, in turn, have disproportionately slipped off to jihad.
American Muslims are yet another of our nation’s success stories (though we need to confront the bad actors abusing our tolerance). We get genuine immigrants seeking their American dream. Europe gets fanatical colonizers.
Don’t think there’s a difference? Check out Brussels.
Ralph Peters is Fox News’ strategic analyst.
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Post by DDNYjets on Mar 25, 2016 9:14:12 GMT -5
"integrated into society," is the key phrase in that article IMO and I think it's a major reason why Europe has a somewhat bigger challenge than America right now. My perception is that Muslim-Americans are here for the same reasons my family came here from Ireland two generations ago, a better life and more opportunity. In large part I believe that Muslim-Americans are finding that better life and those better opportunities as they integrate with society. Europe seems to have a much more isolated, ghettoized population of Muslims. When people are put in a corner (and it's the dirtiest, darkest corner of the room) and feel disenfranchised then it's not surprising that a small percentage act out in an aggressive manner....and that others of the same population may turn a blind eye or not cooperate with authorities doing an investigation. Belgium has what, 11 million people, France has a population of about 66 million? Yet the problem with young, radical Islamists seems much more prevalent that what we're seeing here in America right now with a population of 320+ million. Again, just my perception. You’ve hit the nail on the head. Yes, this stems from assimilating mass migrations over decades. Have we done enough? Depending on your political leanings, your answer may vary. One could say fuck yeah. You can come to my country, I’ll heal you for free no questions asked. I’ll give you money every month to get by. I’ll give you even more money if you have a lot of kids. I'll give you free daycare center so you can look for a job. I’ll give you free schooling all the way through college. If you get fired from you job, I’ll give you 75% of your salary for up to 3 years till you find another one…This list is really long but you can see where I’m getting at. Does that equate to assimilating? Probably not but it fucking helps AND attracts people. Who’s at fault and when did we miss the fork in the road. I don’t know. Is America doing it better? Ghettoisation doesn’t exist in the US? Someone loses faith in the system in the US and they'll end up selling drugs or join a gang. In France, there’s a chance he could go radical Islam. Is that because we’re doing things worse or just America lucked out in it’s migratory population ? Raoul, from the outside looking in I couldnt agree more. I think the policies you guys have are VERY attractive to people. Europe offers a country club compared to where these people came from and frankly they should be thankful. When my grandparents came here they got a checkup at Ellis Island and that was it. My 12 year old grandfather literally dug ditches and lived in a shed until he learned the language was able to go to school and eventually join the Navy. And he was grateful for it. The alternative was going back to Italy and shitting in a river and wiping his ass with leaves. He wasnt the only one that had it hard. There was plenty of hatred here towards the immigrants in the early part of the 20th century. Worse than it is now, thats for sure. But that was the "greatest generation". They overcame. Honestly, I dont think we have as big an issue in America bc we dont just "encourage" assimilation, we kind of force it. Also, because of geography you guys have it way worse than we do. It is not apples to apples. There are so many reasons as to why the problem exists. We could go on all day. I just hope we learn from eachothers mistakes bc your mistakes becomes our mistakes and vice versa. And I want to apologize for something our government said about ISIS not being an existential threat. They should try telling that to the victims and their families. ISIS is an existential threat to many people. Just because they will never be able to breach our shores and fly their flag here doesnt matter.
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