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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Jan 8, 2017 20:50:46 GMT -5
Again,that's your opinion. Lots of those guys you list are just contributors in my opinion. Some are extremely overrated. Unless I'm mistaken, you scoffed at me saying Mac had drafted some solid contributors. Elway has also had 5 drafts compared to Mac. I can't get a good read on you. You say things that just don't jive sometimes. You point out Rey is as good or better than Mauldin and Jenkins. One is a 1st RD pick, the others are 3rd. If Rey is in the same conversation as the other two, that's a testament to Mac, not Elway. The reality is, that if he drafted extremely well, they wouldn't have had to spend so much in FA to fill so many roster holes I wasn't just comparing him to Mac. I was saying he's done a pretty good job. Yes, Ray is a disappointment as a first round pick but still better than most players we take. Elway has also made up for it by finding good players later in the draft like Thomas, Jackson, Trevathan, and Harris. Another really good player I forgot is Marshall. He didn't draft him but he picked him off Jacksonville's scrape heap. Some of them may be overrated but they're better than anything we have. I also left off a bunch of other players he drafted that are decent depth players. Most of our draft picks since 2013 aren't even in the NFL anymore or are about to be cut. I would gladly take Elway over any of the people we've had in charge. And you said Von Miller was a slam dunk? Macs only really good pick was Leo who was just as obvious.
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Post by HawkeyeJet on Jan 8, 2017 20:56:58 GMT -5
Again,that's your opinion. Lots of those guys you list are just contributors in my opinion. Some are extremely overrated. Unless I'm mistaken, you scoffed at me saying Mac had drafted some solid contributors. Elway has also had 5 drafts compared to Mac. I can't get a good read on you. You say things that just don't jive sometimes. You point out Rey is as good or better than Mauldin and Jenkins. One is a 1st RD pick, the others are 3rd. If Rey is in the same conversation as the other two, that's a testament to Mac, not Elway. The reality is, that if he drafted extremely well, they wouldn't have had to spend so much in FA to fill so many roster holes I wasn't just comparing him to Mac. I was saying he's done a pretty good job. Yes, Ray is a disappointment as a first round pick but still better than most players we take. Elway has also made up for it by finding good players later in the draft like Thomas, Jackson, Trevathan, and Harris. Another really good player I forgot is Marshall. He didn't draft him but he picked him off Jacksonville's scrape heap. Some of them may be overrated but they're better than anything we have. I also left off a bunch of other players he drafted that are decent depth players. Most of our draft picks since 2013 aren't even in the NFL anymore or are about to be cut. I would gladly take Elway over any of the people we've had in charge. And you said Von Miller was a slam dunk? Macs only really good pick was Leo who was just as obvious. Just for the record, my original intent wasn't to compare Mac to Elway. Obviously it's no comparison at this point. All I was saying is that when it comes to Elway and drafts, I personally think he's a bit overrated.
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Post by bxjetfan on Jan 8, 2017 20:58:39 GMT -5
How many scholarships were restored to Penn State? Anyone know?
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 20:59:26 GMT -5
Elway's draft have actually been pretty poor in Denver. His 2nd RD picks are just as bad as Macs. Von Miller was obviously a great pick, but was also an obvious one. The best thing Elway has done is get Manning in Denver and spend well in FA around him. what? is this based on measurables recorded on Saturn? Is the only good draft class a probowl one from top to bottom? 2011: miller, thomas, irvin, Orlando Franklin, Green.... right there, thats more success than we've had since 2007. debateably combined. 2012: Derek Wolfe, spot fillers like Hillman Osweiller, and..uhhhh oh yea. Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan. in the 6th and 7th... you kidding me Hawkeye? 2013: Williams, Ball, webster.. probably weakest draft, yet they're almost all still in the league outside of ball 2014: Roby, Latimer, Schofield Barrow, Paradis, 2015: Shane Ray (with 12 sacks, remember that guy that everyone wanted bud dupree over), Sambrailo, Garcia, Siemian, Heuermen We could only dream of having that kind of hit rate. Do you know that virtually every player he's drafted is STILL IN THE LEAGUE. Do you have any idea how insane that is. OR any idea how many jets picks during that time are working at Wendy's right now? He's had a handful of let downs in Ball, Moore, Latimer.. but hardly -- hardly waffling in the same breath as a team like us. Quite honestly it's ridiculous to act like "Elway aint' so great".... You say it's just a opinion... but i think you're just wrong. Empirical evidence is screaming back at you.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 21:03:51 GMT -5
Just Von Miller was a great pick? He also drafted Julius Thomas, Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan, CJ Anderson, Bradley Roby, Shaquil Barrett. Add in Semian who would be our best QB, Ronnie Hillman, Shane Ray who is probably just as good or better than Mauldin and Jordan. He also drafted Brock Osweiler and didn't make the mistake of resigning him to a huge contract so he'll get a nice comp pick for him. Oh and he got Chris Harris as a UDFA. Almost all of these players would start for us or be great depth. You add in his FA signings and he's done a great job. Again,that's your opinion. Lots of those guys you list are just contributors in my opinion. Some are extremely overrated. Unless I'm mistaken, you scoffed at me saying Mac had drafted some solid contributors. Elway has also had 5 drafts compared to Mac. I can't get a good read on you. You say things that just don't jive sometimes. You point out Rey is as good or better than Mauldin and Jenkins. One is a 1st RD pick, the others are 3rd. If Rey is in the same conversation as the other two, that's a testament to Mac, not Elway. The reality is, that if he drafted extremely well, they wouldn't have had to spend so much in FA to fill so many roster holes I think you're drunk. That's the only way to explain what's happening. Ray has been good. I don't know where this perception is that he's been just "OK" is coming... And where the hell is this "spending on FA" stuff coming from?? They've drafted SOOO freaking well, that they couldn't even afford to keep all their guys. They had to let people like Malik Jackson, Trevathan, Thomas, etc get paid elswhere. Who have they spend all this money on? Talib? Seriously? Who wouldn't sign Talib. Sanders was a bargain, they've mostly used their own Oline, Ware was the only splash signing on defense than i can think of. This is bush.
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Jan 8, 2017 21:05:22 GMT -5
I wasn't just comparing him to Mac. I was saying he's done a pretty good job. Yes, Ray is a disappointment as a first round pick but still better than most players we take. Elway has also made up for it by finding good players later in the draft like Thomas, Jackson, Trevathan, and Harris. Another really good player I forgot is Marshall. He didn't draft him but he picked him off Jacksonville's scrape heap. Some of them may be overrated but they're better than anything we have. I also left off a bunch of other players he drafted that are decent depth players. Most of our draft picks since 2013 aren't even in the NFL anymore or are about to be cut. I would gladly take Elway over any of the people we've had in charge. And you said Von Miller was a slam dunk? Macs only really good pick was Leo who was just as obvious. Just for the record, my original intent wasn't to compare Mac to Elway. Obviously it's no comparison at this point. All I was saying is that when it comes to Elway and drafts, I personally think he's a bit overrated. Understandable. I don't think he's knocked it out of the park draft wise like the Raiders have the last 3 years, but he's found a decent amount of talent. Then add that to his free agent signs and in my opinion it makes him better than most GMs in the NFL.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 21:39:54 GMT -5
Just for the record, my original intent wasn't to compare Mac to Elway. Obviously it's no comparison at this point. All I was saying is that when it comes to Elway and drafts, I personally think he's a bit overrated. Understandable. I don't think he's knocked it out of the park draft wise like the Raiders have the last 3 years, but he's found a decent amount of talent. Then add that to his free agent signs and in my opinion it makes him better than most GMs in the NFL. I think you're being too generous -- and maybe for good reason. Being an asshole like myself doesn't win me any favors... You were bang on with your first post. It's not about being fans of the individual prospects, it's about measuring success by production and participation. To argue that Elway hasn't been successful in the draft is ludicrous. And his original post said "poor" drafts.
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Post by HawkeyeJet on Jan 8, 2017 21:53:10 GMT -5
Elway's draft have actually been pretty poor in Denver. His 2nd RD picks are just as bad as Macs. Von Miller was obviously a great pick, but was also an obvious one. The best thing Elway has done is get Manning in Denver and spend well in FA around him. what? is this based on measurables recorded on Saturn? Is the only good draft class a probowl one from top to bottom? 2011: miller, thomas, irvin, Orlando Franklin, Green.... right there, thats more success than we've had since 2007. debateably combined. 2012: Derek Wolfe, spot fillers like Hillman Osweiller, and..uhhhh oh yea. Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan. in the 6th and 7th... you kidding me Hawkeye? 2013: Williams, Ball, webster.. probably weakest draft, yet they're almost all still in the league outside of ball 2014: Roby, Latimer, Schofield Barrow, Paradis, 2015: Shane Ray (with 12 sacks, remember that guy that everyone wanted bud dupree over), Sambrailo, Garcia, Siemian, Heuermen We could only dream of having that kind of hit rate. Do you know that virtually every player he's drafted is STILL IN THE LEAGUE. Do you have any idea how insane that is. OR any idea how many jets picks during that time are working at Wendy's right now? He's had a handful of let downs in Ball, Moore, Latimer.. but hardly -- hardly waffling in the same breath as a team like us. Quite honestly it's ridiculous to act like "Elway aint' so great".... You say it's just a opinion... but i think you're just wrong. Empirical evidence is screaming back at you. If you think it's ridiculous, good for you. You have zero respect for a differing opinion than yours. A lot of the guys that you point out as his Crown Jewels, I personally think aren't as good as you do. It's that simple. You seem to think Rey's 12 career sacks in 30 games is a great output. I don't. Julius Thomas is a product of Peyton Manning, which has bee proven by his return to league average in Jacksonville. There are others that you mention that I just don't think are anything other than average players, that you seem to hold in higher esteem. That's fine. As far as the FA signings and only mentioning Talib, that's either purposely short sighted or you just don't remember the other people. Some are big money guys, some are not as big money wise, but were brought in to start. In the 2 offseasons after they brought in Peyton, they signed all of those veterans. Welker, DRC, Shaun Philips, Terrance Knighton, Sanders, Ware, Ward, and Talib. So excuse me if I think their FA additions played,at minimum, equal parts in their success the last 3 years leading into this one. And for the record, I don't think you are an asshole. Just petulant sometimes.
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Post by ruby2 on Jan 8, 2017 21:58:31 GMT -5
Good thread lol, fwiw I think cool lynch and hack all suck
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 22:59:40 GMT -5
what? is this based on measurables recorded on Saturn? Is the only good draft class a probowl one from top to bottom? 2011: miller, thomas, irvin, Orlando Franklin, Green.... right there, thats more success than we've had since 2007. debateably combined. 2012: Derek Wolfe, spot fillers like Hillman Osweiller, and..uhhhh oh yea. Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan. in the 6th and 7th... you kidding me Hawkeye? 2013: Williams, Ball, webster.. probably weakest draft, yet they're almost all still in the league outside of ball 2014: Roby, Latimer, Schofield Barrow, Paradis, 2015: Shane Ray (with 12 sacks, remember that guy that everyone wanted bud dupree over), Sambrailo, Garcia, Siemian, Heuermen We could only dream of having that kind of hit rate. Do you know that virtually every player he's drafted is STILL IN THE LEAGUE. Do you have any idea how insane that is. OR any idea how many jets picks during that time are working at Wendy's right now? He's had a handful of let downs in Ball, Moore, Latimer.. but hardly -- hardly waffling in the same breath as a team like us. Quite honestly it's ridiculous to act like "Elway aint' so great".... You say it's just a opinion... but i think you're just wrong. Empirical evidence is screaming back at you. If you think it's ridiculous, good for you. You have zero respect for a differing opinion than yours. A lot of the guys that you point out as his Crown Jewels, I personally think aren't as good as you do. It's that simple. You seem to think Rey's 12 career sacks in 30 games is a great output. I don't. Julius Thomas is a product of Peyton Manning, which has bee proven by his return to league average in Jacksonville. There are others that you mention that I just don't think are anything other than average players, that you seem to hold in higher esteem. That's fine. As far as the FA signings and only mentioning Talib, that's either purposely short sighted or you just don't remember the other people. Some are big money guys, some are not as big money wise, but were brought in to start. In the 2 offseasons after they brought in Peyton, they signed all of those veterans. Welker, DRC, Shaun Philips, Terrance Knighton, Sanders, Ware, Ward, and Talib. So excuse me if I think their FA additions played,at minimum, equal parts in their success the last 3 years leading into this one. And for the record, I don't think you are an asshole. Just petulant sometimes. I only get worked up like this, when I know it's someone who understands the game/league. You have a better fundamental understanding of the mechanics of the sport then I do. Yet, sometimes it's like your perspective on players and performance come out of left field. If you said, "I don't like those players" -- yea whatever. I don't like some of 'em either. But that's different than saying he's not drafting well. Most of those FA signings were goldfish contracts for depth and value. Personally, I'm not a huge Elway fan. Only through our own pain and deprivation comes understanding, however. I can recognize competence when I see it.
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Post by chrebet80 on Jan 8, 2017 23:42:53 GMT -5
Elway the gm > every single gm the jets have ever had.
Elway the qb > any qb the jets have ever had.
Fuck you broncos. Why can't we ever get an elway.
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Post by HawkeyeJet on Jan 9, 2017 7:28:51 GMT -5
If you think it's ridiculous, good for you. You have zero respect for a differing opinion than yours. A lot of the guys that you point out as his Crown Jewels, I personally think aren't as good as you do. It's that simple. You seem to think Rey's 12 career sacks in 30 games is a great output. I don't. Julius Thomas is a product of Peyton Manning, which has bee proven by his return to league average in Jacksonville. There are others that you mention that I just don't think are anything other than average players, that you seem to hold in higher esteem. That's fine. As far as the FA signings and only mentioning Talib, that's either purposely short sighted or you just don't remember the other people. Some are big money guys, some are not as big money wise, but were brought in to start. In the 2 offseasons after they brought in Peyton, they signed all of those veterans. Welker, DRC, Shaun Philips, Terrance Knighton, Sanders, Ware, Ward, and Talib. So excuse me if I think their FA additions played,at minimum, equal parts in their success the last 3 years leading into this one. And for the record, I don't think you are an asshole. Just petulant sometimes. I only get worked up like this, when I know it's someone who understands the game/league. You have a better fundamental understanding of the mechanics of the sport then I do. Yet, sometimes it's like your perspective on players and performance come out of left field. If you said, "I don't like those players" -- yea whatever. I don't like some of 'em either. But that's different than saying he's not drafting well. Most of those FA signings were goldfish contracts for depth and value. Personally, I'm not a huge Elway fan. Only through our own pain and deprivation comes understanding, however. I can recognize competence when I see it. You are correct, I shouldn't have said he has drafted poorly. That was a poor choice on how to express my thoughts on him.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 9, 2017 13:50:54 GMT -5
I only get worked up like this, when I know it's someone who understands the game/league. You have a better fundamental understanding of the mechanics of the sport then I do. Yet, sometimes it's like your perspective on players and performance come out of left field. If you said, "I don't like those players" -- yea whatever. I don't like some of 'em either. But that's different than saying he's not drafting well. Most of those FA signings were goldfish contracts for depth and value. Personally, I'm not a huge Elway fan. Only through our own pain and deprivation comes understanding, however. I can recognize competence when I see it. You are correct, I shouldn't have said he has drafted poorly. That was a poor choice on how to express my thoughts on him. Fair enough. If anyone knows about making poor choices in personal expressions, it's me.
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