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Post by doe215 on Nov 6, 2016 19:15:28 GMT -5
For everyone blaming the lack of talent on our GM and past GM'S, when do we place blame on our bone headed talent scouts who we rely on to pick these guys thinking they will pan out to be great/decent players? At some point we need take a holistic approach. It's all trickles down.
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Post by RobR on Nov 6, 2016 19:24:42 GMT -5
Shit rolls uphill, it's always on the GM because he has the final say.
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Post by doe215 on Nov 6, 2016 19:32:19 GMT -5
But if the GM has crap to pick from, then we get crap.
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Post by RobR on Nov 6, 2016 19:35:35 GMT -5
But if the GM has crap to pick from, then we get crap. The GM has the exact same talent pool to pick from as every other GM in the league. It's ultimately his decision when the card is turned in and HE brought in all of these scouts himself. The blame falls squarely on Mac.
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Post by Harrier on Nov 6, 2016 19:43:02 GMT -5
This GM is supposed to be a career long bonafide scout.
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Post by Lithfan on Nov 6, 2016 19:48:27 GMT -5
This GM is supposed to be a career long bonafide scout. And, he also hires the scouting staff. So if the scouts suck, it's on them, but it's also in the guy that hires them.
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Post by Aussie Jet on Nov 6, 2016 19:53:49 GMT -5
Mac fired all the scouts he inherited from Idzik (and Idzik inherited them from Tannenbaum). However, I think Mac had combined his own hires with hold-overs from Idzik for the 2015 draft. I'm fairly sure the players selected in the 2016 draft and UDFAs signed by the Jets this year are all as a result of Mac's hires.
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Post by bxjetfan on Nov 6, 2016 20:07:38 GMT -5
Shit rolls uphill, it's always on the GM because he has the final say. Mac didnt hire Bowles. Woody fucked up again. It seems like Bowles was trying to get the players Bowles wanted. At this point I will give Mac a pass because I dont think Bowles could coach himself out of a paper bag. Just too many big plays where no defender is around and guys missing assignments. I have no idea if the players are any good or not because this coaching staff sucks.
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Post by RobR on Nov 6, 2016 20:19:07 GMT -5
It seems like Bowles was trying to get the players Bowles wanted. I don't totally agree with this one statement and I think you meant Mac getting players Bowles wanted. If this was true why would we draft prototypical 3-4 OLB's back to back in the third round when Bowles doesn't use them correctly(or at all) and the fact these picks came after our Dline was already set? Agree with everything else.
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Post by bxjetfan on Nov 6, 2016 20:23:38 GMT -5
It seems like Bowles was trying to get the players Bowles wanted. I don't totally agree with this one statement and I think you meant Mac getting players Bowles wanted. If this was true why would we draft prototypical 3-4 OLB's back to back in the third round when Bowles doesn't use them correctly(or at all) and the fact these picks came after our Dline was already set? Agree with everything else. Yeah, I meant Mac.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Nov 6, 2016 21:09:11 GMT -5
The roster is at least as good as last year for the most part. Maybe a wash, at worst. Forte/Ivory, Clady/Ferguson. Can't really think of any true downgrades. But the playing and execution seem much worse. Some of the players (like on the DLine koff koff) have shown to be much better players in the past. We know they have talent. They are grotesquely under performing, individually and as a unit. And Revis dropped off a cliff. I screamed last year that his contract was way over the top, but I don't think anyone could have predicted how fast he would deteriorate. And I really blame that signing on meddling Woody
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Post by RobR on Nov 6, 2016 21:23:42 GMT -5
The roster is at least as good as last year for the most part. Maybe a wash, at worst. Forte/Ivory, Clady/Ferguson. Can't really think of any true downgrades. But the playing and execution seem much worse. Some of the players (like on the DLine koff koff) have shown to be much better players in the past. We know they have talent. They are grotesquely under performing, individually and as a unit. And Revis dropped off a cliff. I screamed last year that his contract was way over the top, but I don't think anyone could have predicted how fast he would deteriorate. And I really blame that signing on meddling Woody It's the Fitz factor and our GM and HC going all in on him. Nobody wanted him and we're paying him $12 mil this year with a $5 mil cap hit next year. They're trying too build a win now team with Ryan Fitzpatrick at QB....oh the ironing.
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Post by Lithfan on Nov 6, 2016 21:33:02 GMT -5
The roster is at least as good as last year for the most part. Maybe a wash, at worst. Forte/Ivory, Clady/Ferguson. Can't really think of any true downgrades. But the playing and execution seem much worse. Some of the players (like on the DLine koff koff) have shown to be much better players in the past. We know they have talent. They are grotesquely under performing, individually and as a unit. And Revis dropped off a cliff. I screamed last year that his contract was way over the top, but I don't think anyone could have predicted how fast he would deteriorate. And I really blame that signing on meddling Woody I partially agree. Part of the problem is that so many of our best players are 30+ years old (Mangold, Revis, Marshall, Forte, Harris, Clady, etc.). It is not completely surprising to see most of these guys begin to slide downhill a bit at the end of their careers (or fall of a cliff in the case of Revis). Getting back to the subject of scouting, we have few young guys ready to step in and replace any of the aging vets because we have done such a poor job of drafting over the last decade.
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Post by rangerous on Nov 7, 2016 7:03:31 GMT -5
imo it's not so much the overall talent but where it's centered. they got the greatest concentration of talent (and money spent) on the dline. this has not brought the domination against passing teams that it should have. the second highest is in the secondary. again these guys just aren't getting the coverage done right.
as for what mac has done, he's built a win now team and is having some problems due to bad qb play and key injuries. imagine if decker were healthy, or mangold, etc. it all hurts. forte has done well but he still doesn't seem to be a guy who can punch his own holes like ivory. but if the oline could block to the second level then forte would be having a better game. hopefully they will be able to replace some of the older players and get a good season out of petty.
right now people should be concerned about the benching of wilk and richardson. what is going on there? those guys are supposed to be the heart and soul of the defense.
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Post by maury77 on Nov 7, 2016 7:29:04 GMT -5
Our 3 highest paid players have sucked rhinoceros cock this year: Fitzpatrick sucks (most saw this coming), Revis sucks (some decline could have reasonably been expected) and Wilkerson has sucked (no one saw this coming and I'm convinced he is hurt). That is a tough situation for any team to overcome.At the same time, I can understand why all 3 players were signed at the time.
I'm more bullish than most on the future of the team. From last year's draft, Williams is already our best defensive player and Mauldin looks good now that they actually play him. This year's draft class (which was Macc's first with his own scouting department) yielded a lot of nice youth. Plus, we have a lot of cap flexibility in the offseason.
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