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Post by Sonny Werblin on Sept 21, 2017 14:16:33 GMT -5
I've read a lot about how Bowles wanted to be the coach of the whole team when he was hired. He even said how he wanted to learn O from Gailey because he had so much experience. Bowles attended the O meetings and Gailey even acknowledged that Bowles would sometimes dictate a type of play during the game giving the example of being told to pass on 3d and 1 (ya know the type of stuff we all think HCs do). And then after Gailey retired, Bowles said he was going to become even more involved in the O.
Then I look at the D. Kacey Rogers has been the DC since day 1 for Bowles. While he has worked with Bowles before, he's never worked on a team where Bowles was the DC. So, he's never worked in a Todd Bowles scheme D. We also know that Rogers, not Bowles, calls the D plays.
Knowing that Bowles wanted to become a complete HC and learn and be involved on the O side of the ball, I question how much of the current D is really a Todd Bowles scheme. When Bowles was in Arizona, his D was known for man coverage and bringing extra pass rushers. As we know, in a 3-4, blitzing 1 LB (a 4th pass rusher) is not an extra pass rusher. I just don't see a D that is bringing extra rushers, ever. I know that Carr could burn a blitz, but he burned the D just as badly when given a clean pocket. The Raiders OL easily handled the 3 DL and 1 LB who rushed the passer. Wouldn't a Todd Bowles schemed D, have brought extra pressure on Carr rather than let him pick them apart. And in Buffalo, WTF? The Bills WRs do not scare anyone. Why not man up on them and bring the house against Taylor, if not a few times, maybe at least once?
After each game I am thinking more and more that this is a Kacey Rogers D, and not a Todd Bowles D. I don't have a problem with Bowles being more of a HC and wanting to have a DC that does not overly rely on him, but if this is the case, Bowles needs to understand that Rogers is not getting the job done.
I think it's funny that the press couldn't write enough stories on who was really the Jets DC --- Rex or Pettine, but they never even ponder the question with Bowles at the helm, even when the D is playing poorly and not exhibiting the traits one would expect from a Bowles D?
I am curious what everyone else has noticed.
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Post by 2foolish on Sept 21, 2017 14:23:17 GMT -5
I think most schemes are personnel driven..
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Sept 21, 2017 14:25:52 GMT -5
I think most schemes are personnel driven.. But do you think Bowles is running it, or has it now become a Kacey Rogers D? |
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Post by Harrier on Sept 21, 2017 14:37:15 GMT -5
I think most schemes are personnel driven.. But do you think Bowles is running it, or has it now become a Kacey Rogers D? If Bowles is prepared to stand on the sideline and watch Rogers runs HIS defense into the ground he's a bigger moron than we first thought. Whoever the coach is they have the horses on the d-line with Leo, Ealy and Mo, it's the LB position that is killing this team and can't get the job done, I expect Macc and Bowles to address this immediately next offseason. With a set D-line and this regimes handpicked safeties and backers I expected them to execute Bowles/Rodgers system much better than they currently are. |
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Post by cgjet on Sept 21, 2017 15:13:45 GMT -5
Whichever numb skull is calling the D isn't getting the job done.
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Post by RobR on Sept 21, 2017 15:28:19 GMT -5
I would wager it's 100% Bowles scheme and Rogers is there too implement it. Since he is a defensive coach I can't fathom that he would let Rogers run whatever scheme he wants, especially with the results we've been getting.
Just look at the type of players we've been drafting and that screams Todd Bowles scheme. I'm also not sure where you are getting those blitz numbers from because we've been one of the heaviest blitz teams in the entire league since he got here. IIRC we were #2 last year.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Sept 21, 2017 15:47:19 GMT -5
I would wager it's 100% Bowles scheme and Rogers is there too implement it. Since he is a defensive coach I can't fathom that he would let Rogers run whatever scheme he wants, especially with the results we've been getting. Just look at the type of players we've been drafting and that screams Todd Bowles scheme. I'm also not sure where you are getting those blitz numbers from because we've been one of the heaviest blitz teams in the entire league since he got here. IIRC we were #2 last year. That was my feeling as well until after watching the first two games this season. It just looked different. Do you know what the blitz numbers are so far this season? Cause I'm just not seeing it. And if we are blitzing a lot, we certainly do suck at it. I even considered the possibility that they ratcheted back on the blitzes and were playing vanilla on D because they don't want to put too much pressure on the rookie Safeties. |
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Post by RobR on Sept 21, 2017 15:55:43 GMT -5
Do you know what the blitz numbers are so far this season? I don't, but I remember reading how much we blitzed with Bowles. Like I said, iirc we were #2 last year. One other thought: The only defensive head coach that I can recall not running his own scheme after being hired was Tomlin in Pitt, and that's only because he retained Lebeau who is one of the greatest D Coordinators of all time. |
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Sept 21, 2017 15:59:25 GMT -5
Do you know what the blitz numbers are so far this season? I don't, but I remember reading how much we blitzed with Bowles. Like I said, iirc we were #2 last year. One other thought: The only defensive head coach that I can recall not running his own scheme after being hired was Tomlin in Pitt, and that's only because he retained Lebeau who is one of the greatest D Coordinators of all time. Tomlin still doesn't run his own scheme in Pitt, and one could make a legitimate case that 4-3 Cover 2 is a better fit with the Steelers high octane offense. I live in PA, and have had many discussions with Steelers fans as to Tomlin's status as a poser, but we all agree his is a very cool poser. |
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Post by RobR on Sept 21, 2017 16:09:06 GMT -5
Tomlin still doesn't run his own scheme in Pitt, I'm well aware of that and I'd guess the reasoning is his GM has been drafting guys for a 3-4 for years.....no reason to switch things up when you have a roster built for a certain type of D. |
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Post by MDL JET on Sept 21, 2017 16:58:31 GMT -5
I think most schemes are personnel driven.. But do you think Bowles is running it, or has it now become a Kacey Rogers D? I think it's been Bowles defense since he got here and Rodgers is basically the yes man. That's probably why he wasn't fired last year either. But Rodgers did take over playcalling late last season and Bowles said in the off season he would expect that to continue to start this year so he can focus on everything else. But I think at this point Rodgers knows what Bowles wants, they go over what the game plan is and all but its Rodgers calling the plays. So it's a Todd Bowles D with Rogers running it. |
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Post by DDNYjets on Sept 21, 2017 17:39:26 GMT -5
It is Bowles' D. At least I hope so for Bowles' sake. He is the HC and the coordinators should be answering to him. Bowles is a DC at heart. When the gig is up here he will easily get another DC job if he wants it. He is just another in a long line of defensive coaches that have struggled becoming HCs. He can have success if he gets solid QB play like he did in 2015 but like Rex I am not sure he will ever be able to develop a QB properly.
Is Bowles an 0-16 HC? No. Our roster is a JV team. He is not Kotite and Mac is not Idzik. But they both should be fired anyway.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Sept 22, 2017 7:40:09 GMT -5
It is Bowles' D. At least I hope so for Bowles' sake. He is the HC and the coordinators should be answering to him. Bowles is a DC at heart. When the gig is up here he will easily get another DC job if he wants it. He is just another in a long line of defensive coaches that have struggled becoming HCs. He can have success if he gets solid QB play like he did in 2015 but like Rex I am not sure he will ever be able to develop a QB properly. Is Bowles an 0-16 HC? No. Our roster is a JV team. He is not Kotite and Mac is not Idzik. But they both should be fired anyway. Agree with most of this except I've always felt that who your OC and QB coach are have far more do with a QB's development than the HC. I mean how much time does the HC really spend with the QB? Most of the teams that fail in developing a QB seem to have a carousel at those coaching spots. Caveat -- Jared Goff's play this season certainly seems to contradict my "feelings" on this issue. On the flip side, Brian Billick had 0 success developing a QB in Baltimore. Back to the main issue. I've been a Bowles defender, but the D has me very concerned. It may have been just wishful thinking that after giving some instructions to Rogers as to what he wanted in his D, Bowles simply let Rogers put his own stamp on it. Regardless of who is running it, two things are apparent: 1) it's not working; 2) it is ultimately Bowles responsibility, just as the O's and special teams performance is, and as many have pointed out since D is Bowles area of expertise, if he can't fix this, he should be fired. My personal viewpoint is that Kacey Rogers has to go. Bowles needs to demote him and let someone else or himself take over the DC responsibilities. |
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Post by yankeejet22 on Sept 22, 2017 8:02:04 GMT -5
It is Bowles' D. At least I hope so for Bowles' sake. He is the HC and the coordinators should be answering to him. Bowles is a DC at heart. When the gig is up here he will easily get another DC job if he wants it. He is just another in a long line of defensive coaches that have struggled becoming HCs. He can have success if he gets solid QB play like he did in 2015 but like Rex I am not sure he will ever be able to develop a QB properly. Is Bowles an 0-16 HC? No. Our roster is a JV team. He is not Kotite and Mac is not Idzik. But they both should be fired anyway. Agree with most of this except I've always felt that who your OC and QB coach are have far more do with a QB's development than the HC. I mean how much time does the HC really spend with the QB? Most of the teams that fail in developing a QB seem to have a carousel at those coaching spots. Caveat -- Jared Goff's play this season certainly seems to contradict my "feelings" on this issue. On the flip side, Brian Billick had 0 success developing a QB in Baltimore. Back to the main issue. I've been a Bowles defender, but the D has me very concerned. It may have been just wishful thinking that after giving some instructions to Rogers as to what he wanted in his D, Bowles simply let Rogers put his own stamp on it. Regardless of who is running it, two things are apparent: 1) it's not working; 2) it is ultimately Bowles responsibility, just as the O's and special teams performance is, and as many have pointed out since D is Bowles area of expertise, if he can't fix this, he should be fired. My personal viewpoint is that Kacey Rogers has to go. Bowles needs to demote him and let someone else or himself take over the DC responsibilities. it's the ILBers that killing this Defense. Davis & Lee are either out of position, choosing the wrong gaps, or just getting blown up by the Guards. Davis is not good. Lee is a 43 OLB. Bowles and Mac know it. They just can't do anything about it at this point. |
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Sept 22, 2017 8:11:28 GMT -5
Agree with most of this except I've always felt that who your OC and QB coach are have far more do with a QB's development than the HC. I mean how much time does the HC really spend with the QB? Most of the teams that fail in developing a QB seem to have a carousel at those coaching spots. Caveat -- Jared Goff's play this season certainly seems to contradict my "feelings" on this issue. On the flip side, Brian Billick had 0 success developing a QB in Baltimore. Back to the main issue. I've been a Bowles defender, but the D has me very concerned. It may have been just wishful thinking that after giving some instructions to Rogers as to what he wanted in his D, Bowles simply let Rogers put his own stamp on it. Regardless of who is running it, two things are apparent: 1) it's not working; 2) it is ultimately Bowles responsibility, just as the O's and special teams performance is, and as many have pointed out since D is Bowles area of expertise, if he can't fix this, he should be fired. My personal viewpoint is that Kacey Rogers has to go. Bowles needs to demote him and let someone else or himself take over the DC responsibilities. it's the ILBers that killing this Defense. Davis & Lee are either out of position, choosing the wrong gaps, or just getting blown up by the Guards. Davis is not good. Lee is a 43 OLB. Bowles and Mac know it. They just can't do anything about it at this point. I agree. It doesn't help that we stick our undersized ILBs behind an undersized 3-4 NT. |
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