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Post by Paradis on Jan 10, 2017 0:12:51 GMT -5
Here we go. Watson time
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Post by Paradis on Jan 9, 2017 23:10:44 GMT -5
Double elway there.
Where the hell is Allen tonight?
Rob-- Robinson assessment?
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Post by Paradis on Jan 9, 2017 13:55:28 GMT -5
Last bowl game of the season. Leaving Orlando in a couple hours for Tampa. Win or lose, theses last two playoff years have been a really cool experience. Hope it's a good game and my Tigers bring some hardware back to Clemson. Cmon man!! Let's see some more changes confidence than that!! Jesus the jets have really taken their toll on us, aeh? Your boys are about to play in the big game. A revenge bowl nonetheless too. Get Jacked!!!
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Post by Paradis on Jan 9, 2017 13:50:54 GMT -5
I only get worked up like this, when I know it's someone who understands the game/league. You have a better fundamental understanding of the mechanics of the sport then I do. Yet, sometimes it's like your perspective on players and performance come out of left field. If you said, "I don't like those players" -- yea whatever. I don't like some of 'em either. But that's different than saying he's not drafting well. Most of those FA signings were goldfish contracts for depth and value. Personally, I'm not a huge Elway fan. Only through our own pain and deprivation comes understanding, however. I can recognize competence when I see it. You are correct, I shouldn't have said he has drafted poorly. That was a poor choice on how to express my thoughts on him. Fair enough. If anyone knows about making poor choices in personal expressions, it's me.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 22:59:40 GMT -5
what? is this based on measurables recorded on Saturn? Is the only good draft class a probowl one from top to bottom? 2011: miller, thomas, irvin, Orlando Franklin, Green.... right there, thats more success than we've had since 2007. debateably combined. 2012: Derek Wolfe, spot fillers like Hillman Osweiller, and..uhhhh oh yea. Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan. in the 6th and 7th... you kidding me Hawkeye? 2013: Williams, Ball, webster.. probably weakest draft, yet they're almost all still in the league outside of ball 2014: Roby, Latimer, Schofield Barrow, Paradis, 2015: Shane Ray (with 12 sacks, remember that guy that everyone wanted bud dupree over), Sambrailo, Garcia, Siemian, Heuermen We could only dream of having that kind of hit rate. Do you know that virtually every player he's drafted is STILL IN THE LEAGUE. Do you have any idea how insane that is. OR any idea how many jets picks during that time are working at Wendy's right now? He's had a handful of let downs in Ball, Moore, Latimer.. but hardly -- hardly waffling in the same breath as a team like us. Quite honestly it's ridiculous to act like "Elway aint' so great".... You say it's just a opinion... but i think you're just wrong. Empirical evidence is screaming back at you. If you think it's ridiculous, good for you. You have zero respect for a differing opinion than yours. A lot of the guys that you point out as his Crown Jewels, I personally think aren't as good as you do. It's that simple. You seem to think Rey's 12 career sacks in 30 games is a great output. I don't. Julius Thomas is a product of Peyton Manning, which has bee proven by his return to league average in Jacksonville. There are others that you mention that I just don't think are anything other than average players, that you seem to hold in higher esteem. That's fine. As far as the FA signings and only mentioning Talib, that's either purposely short sighted or you just don't remember the other people. Some are big money guys, some are not as big money wise, but were brought in to start. In the 2 offseasons after they brought in Peyton, they signed all of those veterans. Welker, DRC, Shaun Philips, Terrance Knighton, Sanders, Ware, Ward, and Talib. So excuse me if I think their FA additions played,at minimum, equal parts in their success the last 3 years leading into this one. And for the record, I don't think you are an asshole. Just petulant sometimes. I only get worked up like this, when I know it's someone who understands the game/league. You have a better fundamental understanding of the mechanics of the sport then I do. Yet, sometimes it's like your perspective on players and performance come out of left field. If you said, "I don't like those players" -- yea whatever. I don't like some of 'em either. But that's different than saying he's not drafting well. Most of those FA signings were goldfish contracts for depth and value. Personally, I'm not a huge Elway fan. Only through our own pain and deprivation comes understanding, however. I can recognize competence when I see it.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 21:39:54 GMT -5
Just for the record, my original intent wasn't to compare Mac to Elway. Obviously it's no comparison at this point. All I was saying is that when it comes to Elway and drafts, I personally think he's a bit overrated. Understandable. I don't think he's knocked it out of the park draft wise like the Raiders have the last 3 years, but he's found a decent amount of talent. Then add that to his free agent signs and in my opinion it makes him better than most GMs in the NFL. I think you're being too generous -- and maybe for good reason. Being an asshole like myself doesn't win me any favors... You were bang on with your first post. It's not about being fans of the individual prospects, it's about measuring success by production and participation. To argue that Elway hasn't been successful in the draft is ludicrous. And his original post said "poor" drafts.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 21:03:51 GMT -5
Just Von Miller was a great pick? He also drafted Julius Thomas, Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan, CJ Anderson, Bradley Roby, Shaquil Barrett. Add in Semian who would be our best QB, Ronnie Hillman, Shane Ray who is probably just as good or better than Mauldin and Jordan. He also drafted Brock Osweiler and didn't make the mistake of resigning him to a huge contract so he'll get a nice comp pick for him. Oh and he got Chris Harris as a UDFA. Almost all of these players would start for us or be great depth. You add in his FA signings and he's done a great job. Again,that's your opinion. Lots of those guys you list are just contributors in my opinion. Some are extremely overrated. Unless I'm mistaken, you scoffed at me saying Mac had drafted some solid contributors. Elway has also had 5 drafts compared to Mac. I can't get a good read on you. You say things that just don't jive sometimes. You point out Rey is as good or better than Mauldin and Jenkins. One is a 1st RD pick, the others are 3rd. If Rey is in the same conversation as the other two, that's a testament to Mac, not Elway. The reality is, that if he drafted extremely well, they wouldn't have had to spend so much in FA to fill so many roster holes I think you're drunk. That's the only way to explain what's happening. Ray has been good. I don't know where this perception is that he's been just "OK" is coming... And where the hell is this "spending on FA" stuff coming from?? They've drafted SOOO freaking well, that they couldn't even afford to keep all their guys. They had to let people like Malik Jackson, Trevathan, Thomas, etc get paid elswhere. Who have they spend all this money on? Talib? Seriously? Who wouldn't sign Talib. Sanders was a bargain, they've mostly used their own Oline, Ware was the only splash signing on defense than i can think of. This is bush.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 20:59:26 GMT -5
Elway's draft have actually been pretty poor in Denver. His 2nd RD picks are just as bad as Macs. Von Miller was obviously a great pick, but was also an obvious one. The best thing Elway has done is get Manning in Denver and spend well in FA around him. what? is this based on measurables recorded on Saturn? Is the only good draft class a probowl one from top to bottom? 2011: miller, thomas, irvin, Orlando Franklin, Green.... right there, thats more success than we've had since 2007. debateably combined. 2012: Derek Wolfe, spot fillers like Hillman Osweiller, and..uhhhh oh yea. Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan. in the 6th and 7th... you kidding me Hawkeye? 2013: Williams, Ball, webster.. probably weakest draft, yet they're almost all still in the league outside of ball 2014: Roby, Latimer, Schofield Barrow, Paradis, 2015: Shane Ray (with 12 sacks, remember that guy that everyone wanted bud dupree over), Sambrailo, Garcia, Siemian, Heuermen We could only dream of having that kind of hit rate. Do you know that virtually every player he's drafted is STILL IN THE LEAGUE. Do you have any idea how insane that is. OR any idea how many jets picks during that time are working at Wendy's right now? He's had a handful of let downs in Ball, Moore, Latimer.. but hardly -- hardly waffling in the same breath as a team like us. Quite honestly it's ridiculous to act like "Elway aint' so great".... You say it's just a opinion... but i think you're just wrong. Empirical evidence is screaming back at you.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 17:05:10 GMT -5
What a garbage weekend of football. Tomorrow night can't come soon enough.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 16:47:11 GMT -5
Given these numbers does it make any sense to use a Top 10 pick on one of the elite guys (Cook, Fournette)? It almost seems like the Jets would focus on Defense (again) with either a CB or an OLB prospect at the Top of Round 1 and could come back and potentially get a guy with 1st round talent at the Top of Round 2. Do you see it that way? EDIT: One more thing....since you seem to love this stuff! Would you mind tiering the 14 prospects you listed? Just draw some cutoff lines between Round 1 talents, Round 2, 3, etc? First, thanks for your post. I second most of Lith's thoughts. Cook/Fournette are elite talent, and the kind of playmakers we need. Like he said -- every drive can't be 20 plays via a bunch of "jack-of-all-trades"... DAL had no need for Elliot last year. They'd signed Alfred Morris, still had DMC under contract. RB was not a need, not with their Oline... do you think they regret taking Elliot now? We have to take the best Football player at #6 IMO. Good chance that's Cook/Fournette. My order would be ( bolded the guys I really like): 1ACook 1B Fournette2nd-3rd RND (ftr i'm SUPER against taking a back in rnds 2-3) D. Foreman C. McCaffrey (this one has the NE stink all over it) W. Gallman C. Samuel D. SmithA. Kamara 4th-7th K. HuntJ. Connor J. Mixon J. HurdC. Clement J. Thomas A. JonesE. Hood Not interested: (all 4th-7th round guys) B. Hill J. Williams S. Perine D. Pumphrey J. McNichols M. Mack M. Dayes S. Linwood J. Yearby S. Williams
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 15:51:12 GMT -5
Disagree. He had the wherewithal to ditch Tebow (to us), which seems obvious now, but that came on the heels of Tebow winning a playoff game. He got Manning, which is very much a worthy feather in his cap. Manning hadn't played in a year. He also got more out of his 7th round pick in Trevor, then we did from Petty in the 4th... and he has Lynch on his roster. Elway knows what he's doing. We're going to have to agree to disagree. Getting rid of Tebow does not make him a great evaluator almost everybody knows that Tebow couldn't throw which is why there was such debate about him being drafted in the first place Hell even a few people on this board knew that Tebow was a bum quarterback. Getting Manning wasn't a brainstorm even we tried to get Manning so again that's not Superior evaluation he just had a better team than some of Manning's other options. And getting more out of his seventh round pick then we got out of petty is more of a testament to how poorly our team has been run then to the greatness of Elway. no. He knows he what's doing. Everything you said here is spoonful of hindsight.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 15:07:39 GMT -5
agreed. I didn't like lynch that much but if I was a GM and betting my career on a QB I would have taken him over Hack. I honestly dont think he is a much better prospect that Hack. He shot up the draft boards as the draft got closer but the more I looked at him, heard him and saw him all I saw is a kid who is tall, goofy and not bright enough to success at this level. I dont know his gpa or wonderlick score but I gotta tell you, I got the same gut feeling for this kid as I did when I saw sanchez on the morning show the day before the draft in ny when they asked him about the jets drafting him. I could be wrong and in a few years we will see but my guess is he is a cold stone bust and Hack is at least as likely to succeed or to fail as lynch is. I have a hard time digesting your remarks when you compare Lynch who was a developing winner his last 2 years in college, and Hack who showed next to nothing at Penn state. The same Penn State team that just won the big and played in the rose bowl with Hack.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 15:05:29 GMT -5
John Elway who knows a thing or two about QBs liked Lynch. I'll take his recommendation over Macc, the only GM in the league who liked a QB who sounds like throw up/ vomit. What makes you think Elway knows a thing or two about drafting QB's? He knew a hell of a lot about PLAYING qb but we dont have a freaking clue if he knows any more about drafting them than you do. A monkey could have figured out signing Manning was a good idea...we have no other evidence to suggest he is a good QB talent evaluator. Disagree. He had the wherewithal to ditch Tebow (to us), which seems obvious now, but that came on the heels of Tebow winning a playoff game. He got Manning, which is very much a worthy feather in his cap. Manning hadn't played in a year. He also got more out of his 7th round pick in Trevor, then we did from Petty in the 4th... and he has Lynch on his roster. Elway knows what he's doing.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 8, 2017 12:46:32 GMT -5
JuJu and Noah Brown today
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Post by Paradis on Jan 7, 2017 20:35:33 GMT -5
speaking of old draft favs... Zenner. Can make playz. And rawls. Pretty sure i was the only guy mocking him to the jets.
Dammit let me draft for this team, If i blew it, i'll blow all of you. Happily.
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