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Post by Trades on Apr 10, 2015 6:01:03 GMT -5
Guy would still be alive if he didn't fight a cop and run. That being said I think the cop panicked or was pissed and pride got in the way and that is why he shot. The article I read said they could see the wires pull on the guys shirt as he starts to run away. All that being said I think the cop was wrong and will be in jail for a very long time. The guy didn't come back at him, he was running away. The one thing I am sure of is that I would NEVER want to be a cop. Under a microscope, your judgement constantly question but not the judgement of people fighting/running from cops. How long will it take for people to realize that you comply with orders from cops and let your lawyer fight the battle later. Oh my God a perp is running away! I might get hurt!!!! Let the excuse making begin I am not making excuses to condone what he did. He is clearly wrong and a clearly deceitful asshole as well for the move with the tazer after he killed the guy. I was just making explanations as to what I think might have been his mind set. My last 2 sentences of that paragraph clearly show I think he was wrong and should be jailed.
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Post by Ff2 on Apr 10, 2015 9:04:43 GMT -5
Obviously from the tape the cop fucked up big time. No excuses for him.
But I cant help thinking that it never would have come to this if the guy sat in his car. I guess he had outstanding child support...for that you make a run for it? Anytime you escalate a situation like that...only bad things can happen. The cop had his license...he wasn't going to "escape". His buddy was even sitting in the care. Extraordinarily stupid.
With that said he didn't deserve to die and the cop deserves what is coming. I think this happens all the time...theres just no video. And as mentioned previously...who would ever want to be a cop these days?
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Post by PK on Apr 10, 2015 11:58:03 GMT -5
I hope he didn't die too quickly...just so he had at least a few minutes of fleeting consciousness to realize just how fucking stupid he was.
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Post by Trades on Apr 10, 2015 14:08:20 GMT -5
I hope he didn't die too quickly...just so he had at least a few minutes of fleeting consciousness to realize just how fucking stupid he was. Did you see the dashcam video? The guy was a moron. What the hell was he thinking? At that point the cop was by the book and definitely didn't instigate anything. No way I see this as racist. The cop must have caught up to him between the dashcam video and the cell phone video and something happened with the taser. Still no excuse for shooting a guy in the back. I have to assume that he could have caught him again but Scott was the instigator as far as I am concerned. Being a single father, I also have no respect for a guy that doesn't take care of his kids or pay his child support yet is "test driving" a Mercedes.
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Post by PK on Apr 10, 2015 15:28:19 GMT -5
I hope he didn't die too quickly...just so he had at least a few minutes of fleeting consciousness to realize just how fucking stupid he was. Did you see the dashcam video? The guy was a moron. What the hell was he thinking? At that point the cop was by the book and definitely didn't instigate anything. No way I see this as racist. The cop must have caught up to him between the dashcam video and the cell phone video and something happened with the taser. Still no excuse for shooting a guy in the back. I have to assume that he could have caught him again but Scott was the instigator as far as I am concerned. Being a single father, I also have no respect for a guy that doesn't take care of his kids or pay his child support yet is "test driving" a Mercedes. Bingo. And my dark take on it doesn't mean I think the guy should have been shot. That was textbook brutality right there. And the cop should be sent away for a long time.
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Post by DDNYjets on Apr 10, 2015 16:44:43 GMT -5
Did you see the dashcam video? The guy was a moron. What the hell was he thinking? At that point the cop was by the book and definitely didn't instigate anything. No way I see this as racist. The cop must have caught up to him between the dashcam video and the cell phone video and something happened with the taser. Still no excuse for shooting a guy in the back. I have to assume that he could have caught him again but Scott was the instigator as far as I am concerned. Being a single father, I also have no respect for a guy that doesn't take care of his kids or pay his child support yet is "test driving" a Mercedes. Bingo. And my dark take on it doesn't mean I think the guy should have been shot. That was textbook brutality right there. And the cop should be sent away for a long time. Double Darwinism. Both have been removed from the herd.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Apr 10, 2015 16:46:40 GMT -5
Oh my God a perp is running away! I might get hurt!!!! Let the excuse making begin I am not making excuses to condone what he did. He is clearly wrong and a clearly deceitful asshole as well for the move with the tazer after he killed the guy. I was just making explanations as to what I think might have been his mind set. My last 2 sentences of that paragraph clearly show I think he was wrong and should be jailed. The comment about letting the excuses begin was not directed at you but rather a prediction of how these things typically go. A horrific crime ending in death is committed which is then followed by all sorts of "reasoning" and "explanations". We don't need any "reasons" for his behavior; if he is scared by a guy running away from him he shouldn't be on the police force. What is the most disturbing about this is how calm and deliberate he and his partner were, immmediately, as they started their coverup of what happened (starting with him pretending to have chased him and breathing hard into the radio dispatch) then ordering a corpse to put its hands behind its back (which would have sounded great on audio to investigators, had there been no accompanying video) and culminating in remembering that he lied that the "perp" took his taser so he broke protocol procedures and went back to retrieve it and plant it near him. And no first aid administered to someone mortally wounded. This is really unbelievable, their total lack of concern and urgency, and can only suggest that they had been coached in advance on how to cover up such an incident. Who knows how many times this sort of thing has happened before except there was no video.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Apr 10, 2015 16:47:58 GMT -5
I hope he didn't die too quickly...just so he had at least a few minutes of fleeting consciousness to realize just how fucking stupid he was. Did you see the dashcam video? The guy was a moron. What the hell was he thinking? At that point the cop was by the book and definitely didn't instigate anything. No way I see this as racist. The cop must have caught up to him between the dashcam video and the cell phone video and something happened with the taser. Still no excuse for shooting a guy in the back. I have to assume that he could have caught him again but Scott was the instigator as far as I am concerned. Being a single father, I also have no respect for a guy that doesn't take care of his kids or pay his child support yet is "test driving" a Mercedes. He had just gotten a new job, a well-paying one, after apparent long periods of unemployment. So things were looking up for him. Too bad his kids will get nothing now, thanks to that asshole.
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Post by PK on Apr 10, 2015 17:12:40 GMT -5
Did you see the dashcam video? The guy was a moron. What the hell was he thinking? At that point the cop was by the book and definitely didn't instigate anything. No way I see this as racist. The cop must have caught up to him between the dashcam video and the cell phone video and something happened with the taser. Still no excuse for shooting a guy in the back. I have to assume that he could have caught him again but Scott was the instigator as far as I am concerned. Being a single father, I also have no respect for a guy that doesn't take care of his kids or pay his child support yet is "test driving" a Mercedes. He had just gotten a new job, a well-paying one, after apparent long periods of unemployment. So things were looking up for him. Too bad his kids will get nothing now, thanks to that asshole. I often get new jobs and then run from cops when I get pulled over. How many times have you run from the cops during a traffic stop?
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Apr 10, 2015 17:16:14 GMT -5
He had just gotten a new job, a well-paying one, after apparent long periods of unemployment. So things were looking up for him. Too bad his kids will get nothing now, thanks to that asshole. I often get new jobs and then run from cops when I get pulled over. How many times have you run from the cops during a traffic stop? Like I said, I've been driving around with a brake light out for over a month and have yet to be pulled over. I also routinely speed by cars at 85 mph that have been pulled over on the turnpike whose drivers are black men, yet I don't get stopped. So I have not had the opportunity to run away. There was an arrest warrant out for him because he hadn't paid his child support. It sounds like to him getting a new job was a big deal. Not something that happened to him "often". What is your point, that is is okay to get shot and killed because you run away during a traffic stop?
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Post by Jetworks on Apr 10, 2015 17:23:12 GMT -5
Right. Ok. I'm sure it wouldn't be possible for you to be fearful of someone reaching for your belt, where you carry a firearm, right? Not if the guy's ten feet away from with his back to me and running away. No. If he had shot him at point blank range that might be an argument. And eyewitness testimony says there was no struggle anyway. And there's now dashcam video which I believe supports that. His police report is a fabrication. He said he was chasing the "perp" who stole his taser. After he shot him he walked towards him pretending he was out of breath on his radio, then breaks protocol after he reaches the body, remembering he lied that the "perp" stole his Taser, leaves the body to retrieve the Taser, and goes back and places it next to the body. Other than that, what is "his account"? The traffic stop was supposedly for a broken tail light or non-working brake light, accounts vary. This was a Mercedes which he had just bought, for which the "perp" couldn't produce insurance because he hadn't completed all the paperwork. Broken tail light, sure. On the dashcam video it doesn't look like there is anything wrong with the brake lights. I've been driving without a left brake light for at least a month; I have yet to be pulled over. If this guy is scared by someone running away from him he has no business being a police officer I am not making excuses to condone what he did. He is clearly wrong and a clearly deceitful asshole as well for the move with the tazer after he killed the guy. I was just making explanations as to what I think might have been his mind set. My last 2 sentences of that paragraph clearly show I think he was wrong and should be jailed. The comment about letting the excuses begin was not directed at you but rather a prediction of how these things typically go. A horrific crime ending in death is committed which is then followed by all sorts of "reasoning" and "explanations". We don't need any "reasons" for his behavior; if he is scared by a guy running away from him he shouldn't be on the police force. What is the most disturbing about this is how calm and deliberate he and his partner were, immmediately, as they started their coverup of what happened (starting with him pretending to have chased him and breathing hard into the radio dispatch) then ordering a corpse to put its hands behind its back (which would have sounded great on audio to investigators, had there been no accompanying video) and culminating in remembering that he lied that the "perp" took his taser so he broke protocol procedures and went back to retrieve it and plant it near him. And no first aid administered to someone mortally wounded. This is really unbelievable, their total lack of concern and urgency, and can only suggest that they had been coached in advance on how to cover up such an incident. Who knows how many times this sort of thing has happened before except there was no video. VTN, you keep talking about all this with the benefit of hindsight. If you believe someone reached for you, you are going to start reacting accordingly. If you believe said someone has also taken something dangerous from you, you are going to react accordingly. Up until that point, I am fine with how this played out, you're not. You somehow think the cop should have been in some kind of robot-mode that made him not be at all scared. Didn't know that was a requirement of the job; I thought having the ability to act in the face of such fear was. I was scared plenty in my career, even made some dumbass decisions when I looked back on it with the benefit of hindsight. Still, never had anyone question me as being unfit for the job, let alone my integrity or intentions. Like it or not, there's just certain instances about doing job X that you can never fathom or comprehend without having done it; has nothing to do with intelligence or race or sex, just a fact of life. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Those who never have, apparently critique. I'm learning that now amidst my career change; there are plenty of subtleties to nursing/medicine that I have definitely criticized in my time as a layman patient. Anyway, once the cop realized the guy was bolting, tactically, given his location, his surroundings and the circumstances of the stop, he should've instead called for backup (if he hadn't already) and pursued. He didn't, so he fucked up. Additionally, he fucked up when he apparently re-arranged the evidence to fit his story, one he felt actually did play out until after he had the ability to reassess his environment once the perceived threat was gone. That's strike 2. AFAIK, not administering first aid to a person you shot is a bit of a grey area, but I'll go ahead and say that's strike 3. So, here we have a former LEO giving you a reasonable explanation of what may have happened, while agreeing that this was a bad shoot (and then some). But you don't want reasoning and explanations, for whatever reason. And what you perceive as callous disregard could very well be an overwhelming sense of dread, be it selfishly motivated as to potential consequences or the realization that you've just ended someone's life over a traffic stop. Again, lots of vagaries... Don't mean to come off as pontificating, so apologies in advance.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Apr 10, 2015 17:30:13 GMT -5
Not if the guy's ten feet away from with his back to me and running away. No. If he had shot him at point blank range that might be an argument. And eyewitness testimony says there was no struggle anyway. And there's now dashcam video which I believe supports that. His police report is a fabrication. He said he was chasing the "perp" who stole his taser. After he shot him he walked towards him pretending he was out of breath on his radio, then breaks protocol after he reaches the body, remembering he lied that the "perp" stole his Taser, leaves the body to retrieve the Taser, and goes back and places it next to the body. Other than that, what is "his account"? The traffic stop was supposedly for a broken tail light or non-working brake light, accounts vary. This was a Mercedes which he had just bought, for which the "perp" couldn't produce insurance because he hadn't completed all the paperwork. Broken tail light, sure. On the dashcam video it doesn't look like there is anything wrong with the brake lights. I've been driving without a left brake light for at least a month; I have yet to be pulled over. If this guy is scared by someone running away from him he has no business being a police officer The comment about letting the excuses begin was not directed at you but rather a prediction of how these things typically go. A horrific crime ending in death is committed which is then followed by all sorts of "reasoning" and "explanations". We don't need any "reasons" for his behavior; if he is scared by a guy running away from him he shouldn't be on the police force. What is the most disturbing about this is how calm and deliberate he and his partner were, immmediately, as they started their coverup of what happened (starting with him pretending to have chased him and breathing hard into the radio dispatch) then ordering a corpse to put its hands behind its back (which would have sounded great on audio to investigators, had there been no accompanying video) and culminating in remembering that he lied that the "perp" took his taser so he broke protocol procedures and went back to retrieve it and plant it near him. And no first aid administered to someone mortally wounded. This is really unbelievable, their total lack of concern and urgency, and can only suggest that they had been coached in advance on how to cover up such an incident. Who knows how many times this sort of thing has happened before except there was no video. VTN, you keep talking about all this with the benefit of hindsight. If you believe someone reached for you, you are going to start reacting accordingly. If you believe said someone has also taken something dangerous from you, you are going to react accordingly. Up until that point, I am fine with how this played out, you're not. You somehow think the cop should have been in some kind of robot-mode that made him not be at all scared. Didn't know that was a requirement of the job; I thought having the ability to act in the face of such fear was. I was scared plenty in my career, even made some dumbass decisions when I looked back on it with the benefit of hindsight. Still, never had anyone question me as being unfit for the job, let alone my integrity or intentions. Like it or not, there's just certain instances about doing job X that you can never fathom or comprehend without having done it; has nothing to do with intelligence or race or sex, just a fact of life. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Those who never have, apparently critique. I'm learning that now amidst my career change; there are plenty of subtleties to nursing/medicine that I have definitely criticized in my time as a layman patient. Anyway, once the cop realized the guy was bolting, tactically, given his location, his surroundings and the circumstances of the stop, he should've instead called for backup (if he hadn't already) and pursued. He didn't, so he fucked up. Additionally, he fucked up when he apparently re-arranged the evidence to fit his story, one he felt actually did play out until after he had the ability to reassess his environment once the perceived threat was gone. That's strike 2. AFAIK, not administering first aid to a person you shot is a bit of a grey area, but I'll go ahead and say that's strike 3. So, here we have a former LEO giving you a reasonable explanation of what may have happened, while agreeing that this was a bad shoot (and then some). But you don't want reasoning and explanations, for whatever reason. And what you perceive as callous disregard could very well be an overwhelming sense of dread, be it selfishly motivated as to potential consequences or the realization that you've just ended someone's life over a traffic stop. Again, lots of vagaries... Don't mean to come off as pontificating, so apologies in advance. The entire police report was a fabrication. You are still believing it, including the part where he claimed there was an altercation. All of it was made up. The police department put out this false story, and his original lawyer put out a statement saying "Slager believes he followed all proper procedures". This charade went on for two days, unbeknownst to Slager, that there was video out there of him shooting this guy. The minute the video came out, his lawyer dropped the case, he had to find a new one, he got fired, and charged with murder. None of the story is true yet you are giving him all this benefit of the doubt based on his lies.
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Post by Jetworks on Apr 10, 2015 17:39:11 GMT -5
VTN, you keep talking about all this with the benefit of hindsight. If you believe someone reached for you, you are going to start reacting accordingly. If you believe said someone has also taken something dangerous from you, you are going to react accordingly. Up until that point, I am fine with how this played out, you're not. You somehow think the cop should have been in some kind of robot-mode that made him not be at all scared. Didn't know that was a requirement of the job; I thought having the ability to act in the face of such fear was. I was scared plenty in my career, even made some dumbass decisions when I looked back on it with the benefit of hindsight. Still, never had anyone question me as being unfit for the job, let alone my integrity or intentions. Like it or not, there's just certain instances about doing job X that you can never fathom or comprehend without having done it; has nothing to do with intelligence or race or sex, just a fact of life. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Those who never have, apparently critique. I'm learning that now amidst my career change; there are plenty of subtleties to nursing/medicine that I have definitely criticized in my time as a layman patient. Anyway, once the cop realized the guy was bolting, tactically, given his location, his surroundings and the circumstances of the stop, he should've instead called for backup (if he hadn't already) and pursued. He didn't, so he fucked up. Additionally, he fucked up when he apparently re-arranged the evidence to fit his story, one he felt actually did play out until after he had the ability to reassess his environment once the perceived threat was gone. That's strike 2. AFAIK, not administering first aid to a person you shot is a bit of a grey area, but I'll go ahead and say that's strike 3. So, here we have a former LEO giving you a reasonable explanation of what may have happened, while agreeing that this was a bad shoot (and then some). But you don't want reasoning and explanations, for whatever reason. And what you perceive as callous disregard could very well be an overwhelming sense of dread, be it selfishly motivated as to potential consequences or the realization that you've just ended someone's life over a traffic stop. Again, lots of vagaries... Don't mean to come off as pontificating, so apologies in advance. The entire police report was a fabrication. You are still believing it, including the part where he claimed there was an altercation. All of it was made up. The police department put out this false story, and his original lawyer put out a statement saying "Slager believes he followed all proper procedures". This charade went on for two days, unbeknownst to Slager, that there was video out there of him shooting this guy. The minute the video came out, his lawyer dropped the case, he had to find a new one, he got fired, and charged with murder. None of the story is true yet you are giving him all this benefit of the doubt based on his lies. I saw the altercation on video. The guy clearly reached for the officer, most likely his belt. If he didn't reach with intent to grab, then he reached defensively, which in turn was naturally interpreted as being overtly confrontational. Again, I'm able to look at this from multiple angles, you aren't. I'm not going to try and make you see all sides of this, you're clearly hung up on the outcome, not what led up to it. That's fine, it's your prerogative. Not even being the slightest bit douchey.
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Post by PK on Apr 10, 2015 17:52:05 GMT -5
I often get new jobs and then run from cops when I get pulled over. How many times have you run from the cops during a traffic stop? Like I said, I've been driving around with a brake light out for over a month and have yet to be pulled over. I also routinely speed by cars at 85 mph that have been pulled over on the turnpike whose drivers are black men, yet I don't get stopped. So I have not had the opportunity to run away. There was an arrest warrant out for him because he hadn't paid his child support. It sounds like to him getting a new job was a big deal. Not something that happened to him "often". What is your point, that is is okay to get shot and killed because you run away during a traffic stop? Um. Fix your brake light. Working brake lights aren't just to keep cops from pulling you over...they're designed to let the drivers behind you know that you're stopping. Why would you drive around for a month with a blown brake light? 2...slow down. Speed limits aren't there so that cops pull you over for breaking them. It's for safety. You sound like a horrible driver. Maybe you should take a defensive driving course refresher. Take it from someone like me...who has had run ins with the law. Running and trying to reach for a cops gun is stupid. No matter how touchy feely libs want to be about it.
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Post by PK on Apr 10, 2015 17:56:57 GMT -5
And no one here has said it's ok for the guy to have gotten shot and killed.
But it seems like you're ok with people reaching for cops sidearms, resisting arrest and running.
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