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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Dec 29, 2014 14:46:00 GMT -5
Between Woody, Idzik, and Rex it is scary to think that Rex may have actually been the smartest guy in that "braintrust." Woody sounds like a bit of a dope today. He always sounds like he heard 95% of what he was told, retained about 80%, and is trying to repeat 75% of it.
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Post by Hotman on Dec 29, 2014 14:49:19 GMT -5
Let's make this analogous: After this year Richardson begins to slowly drift downward in production. The line continues to play well, however. Some of the pieces change and his stats fall downward with a few flashes of what he initially showed us. Eventually Wilk leaves two years from now ( year 4 for sheldon in this timeline). The DL is average with him in year 5, and then is an absolute cluster in year 6. Would you continue to build around him as a center piece. It's apples and oranges don't you think? So you're saying that we should be surprised if we degrade the talent around Sheldon Richardson and he doesn't perform as well? I'm not sure that argument supports the point. If Rex was the problem then why is a GM being fired after only 2 years? If a first-time GM was providing the tools to win to the head coach then why is that GM fired so quickly? The Jets had a roster capable of 6 wins last year and won 8 games. They had a roster capable of 6 wins this year and won 4. I put the fault on the fact that the HC has only been given a roster capable of 6 wins for consecutive years. I don't look at the fact that the Minnesota OT game was winnable, that Nick Folk caused a 1-point loss to New England last week, that the Jets lost 16-13 to Miami with a QB that had both hands tied behind his back....and say that we could easily have been a 6 or 7 win team this year with a bounce of the ball here and there. The fact of the matter is that John Idzik wrecked the franchise in multiple ways - Wasting 12 draft picks in the deepest draft in a decade, leaving $ on the table that could been used to shore up major roster holes, and now leaving the Jets no choice but to fire the best coach they've had since 1999 because they couldn't fix the Idzik blunder without letting the HC go. I have mixed emotions. It's like being happy to find out that a serial killer died in a car accident.....then you realize he was driving your new Ferrari. We had to sacrifice Rex to correct the Idzik mistake. I'll get over it, but I just have little confidence in the ability of the organization to ever get things right. We've been trying to beat the Pats* for over a decade with Herm Edwards, Eric Mangini and then Rex Ryan at coach. When we're finally able to beat them we start to undermine the head coach and degrade the roster, then we fire the Head Coach who can't beat Tom B. while using Geno Smith at QB and two dudes at Cornerback that nobody has ever heard of. ![](http://i.imgur.com/2hTg1Lv.gif)
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Post by TheMo on Dec 29, 2014 14:53:46 GMT -5
Let's make this analogous: After this year Richardson begins to slowly drift downward in production. The line continues to play well, however. Some of the pieces change and his stats fall downward with a few flashes of what he initially showed us. Eventually Wilk leaves two years from now ( year 4 for sheldon in this timeline). The DL is average with him in year 5, and then is an absolute cluster in year 6. Would you continue to build around him as a center piece. It's apples and oranges don't you think? So you're saying that we should be surprised if we degrade the talent around Sheldon Richardson and he doesn't perform as well? I'm not sure that argument supports the point. If Rex was the problem then why is a GM being fired after only 2 years? If a first-time GM was providing the tools to win to the head coach then why is that GM fired so quickly? The Jets had a roster capable of 6 wins last year and won 8 games. They had a roster capable of 6 wins this year and won 4. I put the fault on the fact that the HC has only been given a roster capable of 6 wins for consecutive years. I don't look at the fact that the Minnesota OT game was winnable, that Nick Folk caused a 1-point loss to New England last week, that the Jets lost 16-13 to Miami with a QB that had both hands tied behind his back....and say that we could easily have been a 6 or 7 win team this year with a bounce of the ball here and there. The fact of the matter is that John Idzik wrecked the franchise in multiple ways - Wasting 12 draft picks in the deepest draft in a decade, leaving $ on the table that could been used to shore up major roster holes, and now leaving the Jets no choice but to fire the best coach they've had since 1999 because they couldn't fix the Idzik blunder without letting the HC go. I have mixed emotions. It's like being happy to find out that a serial killer died in a car accident.....then you realize he was driving your new Ferrari. We had to sacrifice Rex to correct the Idzik mistake. I'll get over it, but I just have little confidence in the ability of the organization to ever get things right. We've been trying to beat the Pats* for over a decade with Herm Edwards, Eric Mangini and then Rex Ryan at coach. When we're finally able to beat them we start to undermine the head coach and degrade the roster, then we fire the Head Coach who can't beat Tom B. while using Geno Smith at QB and two dudes at Cornerback that nobody has ever heard of. Would you be okay with hiring Jeff Fisher assuming he was available? Rex Ryan is basically Jeff Fisher if you compare them. So if you are okay with hiring him then we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you don't, consider that maybe you just like Rex the person/motivator and perhaps are feeling that loss right now? At the end of the day you and I are on the same side. Here's to hoping I end up being right, for the sake of this painful to watch team lol. Also I can see why you feel this way. I watched the highlight of NE smackdown from the playoffs that you posted in the best moments thread. That 2010 team was probably my favorite, albeit in my short time as a fan going on 10ish years now.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 29, 2014 14:57:10 GMT -5
Agreed, that's the only reason Rex had to go IMO. The misfire on the hiring of John Idzik not only destroyed the roster but forced the Jets to fire a good HC because they simply wouldn't be able to upgrade the GM while keeping Rex. His hire was likely secondary to the impetus to keep Ryan that offseason. What you are missing is that there was never a good option of keeping him. Not this year and not two years ago. Only a mediocre GM was going to accept having to keep Ryan as a contingent for coming aboard. Franchise got what it deserved given the botched parameters of the search. +1. Who would take a job where the guy (the HC) most responsible for the success of the operation, other than yourself, is beloved by the owner and a significant segment of the press and fan base?
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Dec 29, 2014 14:57:54 GMT -5
Idzik got a raw deal. He took you guys out of cap hell and whoever comes in is going to inherit that. The stipulation of forcing Rex on a new GM was idiotic. Maybe his drafts wouldn't have looked so bad if the GM had been able to hire a coach whose scheme would fit the type of players he wanted to bring in. I know I'm the only person on the planet who feels this way. I'm starting to think Woody never intended Idzik to be anything more than a temporary GM. He was never a personnel guy but he was supposed to have executive skills (according to Korn Ferry) and he didn't even perform on that level.
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Post by jetstream23 on Dec 29, 2014 14:59:33 GMT -5
So you're saying that we should be surprised if we degrade the talent around Sheldon Richardson and he doesn't perform as well? I'm not sure that argument supports the point. If Rex was the problem then why is a GM being fired after only 2 years? If a first-time GM was providing the tools to win to the head coach then why is that GM fired so quickly? The Jets had a roster capable of 6 wins last year and won 8 games. They had a roster capable of 6 wins this year and won 4. I put the fault on the fact that the HC has only been given a roster capable of 6 wins for consecutive years. I don't look at the fact that the Minnesota OT game was winnable, that Nick Folk caused a 1-point loss to New England last week, that the Jets lost 16-13 to Miami with a QB that had both hands tied behind his back....and say that we could easily have been a 6 or 7 win team this year with a bounce of the ball here and there. The fact of the matter is that John Idzik wrecked the franchise in multiple ways - Wasting 12 draft picks in the deepest draft in a decade, leaving $ on the table that could been used to shore up major roster holes, and now leaving the Jets no choice but to fire the best coach they've had since 1999 because they couldn't fix the Idzik blunder without letting the HC go. I have mixed emotions. It's like being happy to find out that a serial killer died in a car accident.....then you realize he was driving your new Ferrari. We had to sacrifice Rex to correct the Idzik mistake. I'll get over it, but I just have little confidence in the ability of the organization to ever get things right. We've been trying to beat the Pats** for over a decade with Herm Edwards, Eric Mangini and then Rex Ryan at coach. When we're finally able to beat them we start to undermine the head coach and degrade the roster, then we fire the Head Coach who can't beat Tom B. while using Geno Smith at QB and two dudes at Cornerback that nobody has ever heard of. Would you be okay with hiring Jeff Fisher assuming he was available? Rex Ryan is basically Jeff Fisher if you compare them. So if you are okay with hiring him then we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you don't, consider that maybe you just like Rex the person/motivator and perhaps are feeling that loss right now? At the end of the day you and I are on the same side. Here's to hoping I end up being right, for the sake of this painful to watch team lol. Also I can see why you feel this way. I watched the highlight of NE smackdown from the playoffs that you posted in the best moments thread. That 2010 team was probably my favorite, albeit in my short time as a fan going on 10ish years now. We're definitely on the same side and I hope you're right as well. I want to be wrong. I want to see someone come in here and show that the HC was the problem and not the roster or the QB. I just don't believe that. I'd be happy to start a thread in the next 2 or 3 years titled, "Firing Rex Ryan jumpstarted the Jets. I was wrong, it was the right move!" I simply believe that the Jets screwed the pooch and backed themselves into a corner, basically forcing themselves to fire a good coach because they goofed up the GM hire so badly.
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Post by jetstream23 on Dec 29, 2014 15:03:04 GMT -5
Idzik got a raw deal. He took you guys out of cap hell and whoever comes in is going to inherit that. The stipulation of forcing Rex on a new GM was idiotic. Maybe his drafts wouldn't have looked so bad if the GM had been able to hire a coach whose scheme would fit the type of players he wanted to bring in. I know I'm the only person on the planet who feels this way. I'm starting to think Woody never intended Idzik to be anything more than a temporary GM. He was never a personnel guy but he was supposed to have executive skills (according to Korn Ferry) and he didn't even perform on that level. If that was the case then we should have never traded for Harvin, the Jets should have traded draft picks forward to reduce from 12 to say 8 or 9 in 2014 and load up in 2015. The problem with Woody is that he's reactionary. We went from an overspending GM in Tanny to an underspending one in Idzik. We went from a tight-ass control freak who players hated in Eric Mangini to a loud, overconfident guy in Rex Ryan. The pendulum swings back and forth with this owner. He is now so concerned about the offense and QB development that he likely forces himself to ONLY look at offensive-minded HC candidates, and may ignore strong candidates like Todd Bowles.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Dec 29, 2014 15:03:54 GMT -5
Wow I wonder hwere he dug that up from. And how did that happen, with the wonderful advice of Korn/Ferry, Neil Glat and whatever his name is dopey spelling Akselrad. Those IMO are the first heads that should roll and Woody should get his KF fee back.
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Post by Hotman on Dec 29, 2014 15:05:21 GMT -5
Wow I wonder hwere he dug that up from. And how did that happen, with the wonderful advice of Korn/Ferry, Neil Glat and whatever his name is dopey spelling Akselrad. Those IMO are the first heads that should roll and Woody should get his KF fee back. 10,000!!! wooo
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Post by jetstream23 on Dec 29, 2014 15:11:28 GMT -5
It could be easily argued that the Jets haven't had a true football guy in the GM spot in over a decade. That's insane. A GM's priorities have to be...
1. Acquisition and retention of quality football players 2. Salary cap management
...in that order.
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 29, 2014 15:19:05 GMT -5
It could be easily argued that the Jets haven't had a true football guy in the GM spot in over a decade. That's insane. A GM's priorities have to be... 1. Acquisition and retention of quality football players 2. Salary cap management ...in that order. I think Dick Steinberg was the last real GM.
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Post by vin on Dec 29, 2014 15:22:28 GMT -5
Idzik got a raw deal. He took you guys out of cap hell and whoever comes in is going to inherit that. The stipulation of forcing Rex on a new GM was idiotic. Maybe his drafts wouldn't have looked so bad if the GM had been able to hire a coach whose scheme would fit the type of players he wanted to bring in. I know I'm the only person on the planet who feels this way. I'm starting to think Woody never intended Idzik to be anything more than a temporary GM. He was never a personnel guy but he was supposed to have executive skills (according to Korn Ferry) and he didn't even perform on that level. You could be right about that but if so, then Woody really shit the bed in that regard mainly 'cause it took so long for him to realize that he needed actual FOOTBALL people to run FOOTBALL operations. Idzik was not exactly that and if he knew that....oh boy. Well...now he's FINALLY come around with the Casserly/Wolf hirings so better late than never.
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Post by Slackjaw on Dec 29, 2014 15:40:52 GMT -5
That's just stupid. And Rex is gone. Get over it and move on man. With a good HC we're heading back to the days of 9-7 and maybe some occasional playoff trips. I'd rather have the guy who struck fear in the hearts of the best QBs in the NFL. I'd rather have on my sideline the guy who Bill Belicheck and Tom B. see in their nightmares. I'd rather have as my head coach the guy who, with a good roster, takes a team into Indianapolis and beats Peyton Manning at his peak. At best dude, we're heading back to the Herm Edwards days of slightly above average.If that is the case I quit being a fan.
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Post by 2foolish on Dec 29, 2014 17:29:09 GMT -5
i'm scared...like Hillary...when he opens his mouth is when his numbers drop... i knew it...he talks and tampers...when he opens he mouth he shows the world what a silverspooned asshole he is...
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Post by copernicus on Dec 29, 2014 18:34:15 GMT -5
I'm starting to think Woody never intended Idzik to be anything more than a temporary GM. He was never a personnel guy but he was supposed to have executive skills (according to Korn Ferry) and he didn't even perform on that level. I think you are correct and this is the sad state of the Jets and why I dispise Woody Johnson. Spoiled billionaire who just never seems believable in every action he is a part of. I truly can't stand everything about him. Right down to his business suit and baseball cap. I went back and watched and listened to Woody Johnson speak and he is just so poor at it. He tries-to speak in football terms but sounds forced. When speaking about Idzik he says the "ying and yang" (?) and about him be "the good guy and not so good guy" (?) WHAT? He speaks in circles. Like when you realize you're listening to someone who you thought had it together but really doesn't. One moment he says he doesn't listen to the fans and the next he does. Coaches need to fit the scheme? Again WHAT? Just not believable, zero confidence that he will ever get this done......
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