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Post by jetstream23 on Mar 3, 2015 1:26:23 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but invest in the running game...and invest in it seriously. That means interior O-Line and try to grab one of the Top 3 RBs in this draft class while also possibly getting a FA like Spiller. A team built on defense and rushing CAN win and be successful. We need the threat of a pass and I think we'll have it but the Jets most recent success (think 2009, 2010, etc) was built around being able to run the football even when other teams knew we were going to run it. Guys like Damien Woody, Thomas Jones, Shonn Greene, LaDainian T., FB Tony Richardson are what helped the Jets win with a young QB who made mistakes. I don't see us having an opportunity to significantly upgrade at QB for a couple of years. We'll need to tinker with it, take some shots in the draft and maybe land a decent FA but we're unlikely to step into an Andrew Luck any time soon. Indeed. Whether you win by passing or running, the O-Line is an absolute essential FIRST...and ours currently suffers from gross neglect. I foresee lots of FA checks being cut to O-Line folks. After that you need a good QB (plus decent-->good receivers) for the passing game or a good RB (or two) for the running game. Unfortunately for the Jets, the numbers game (NFL-level QB's are harder to find than RB's) and the currently expected draft realities of this year's 6th pick (Mariota at best) and the availability of FA talent (players like McCown are no one's long term solution) mean that improving our record next year is best done by investing FA and draft picks in the running game and striving for a "decent-enough" passing game to limit the opposition to seven in the box. However, let's suppose that we did this and move up to 6-8 wins next year. What would be our QB prospects at that point? We would have a worse spot in the draft and not really any better prospects from the 2016 crop of free agents. How are we going to find our future QB from that position? The pundits indicate that Winston is likely gone after the first pick, and I believe them. Therefore, in my mind, our future hinges directly upon what our scouts think of Mariota. While there are never any guarantees, I think our planning in this regard is a simple function of our opinion of his future prospects: - If we think that Mariota *MIGHT* some day be top 5 in the league, we trade up aggressively.
- If we think that Mariota *MIGHT* some day be top 10 in the league, we trade up if a reasonable deal can be had.
- If we think that Mariota *MIGHT* some day be top 15 in the league, we take him if he drops to 6th.
So JS23, while I *completely agree with you on the quickest path to improvement for next season that the running game is our best approach, I think that for the longer term, we have to use our position at 6th pick to leverage the QB spot if we believe that there is a top 15 or better QB prospect in the draft this year.
Absolutely. Teams can win a Super Bowl with a Top 10 to 15 QB. You don't necessarily need a Top 3 or 5 guy. But you absolutely can't have a guy in the bottom half of the league. Your team would simply have to hit on all cylinders (rushing attack, Defense, Special Teams) in order to overcome a liability at QB. I'm not even sure we should get hung up on whether Mariota is going to be a Top 10 guy, 15 guy, etc. The real questions for the Jets are.... 1. Mariota has all the measurables but can his college game translate into the NFL and can he do all the things necessary (play from under Center, make reads and progressions) to win at the NFL level? 2. Is he an upgrade over Geno Smith? If the answers are Yes then they should take him at #6. To me, those are really the only key questions....is he capable of winning in the NFL and is he an upgrade over what we have now? Now, here's the hard part....do the Jets have the scouting and assessment abilities to answer the above questions correctly?
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Post by greengeek on Mar 3, 2015 6:33:23 GMT -5
Indeed. Whether you win by passing or running, the O-Line is an absolute essential FIRST...and ours currently suffers from gross neglect. I foresee lots of FA checks being cut to O-Line folks. After that you need a good QB (plus decent-->good receivers) for the passing game or a good RB (or two) for the running game. Unfortunately for the Jets, the numbers game (NFL-level QB's are harder to find than RB's) and the currently expected draft realities of this year's 6th pick (Mariota at best) and the availability of FA talent (players like McCown are no one's long term solution) mean that improving our record next year is best done by investing FA and draft picks in the running game and striving for a "decent-enough" passing game to limit the opposition to seven in the box. However, let's suppose that we did this and move up to 6-8 wins next year. What would be our QB prospects at that point? We would have a worse spot in the draft and not really any better prospects from the 2016 crop of free agents. How are we going to find our future QB from that position? The pundits indicate that Winston is likely gone after the first pick, and I believe them. Therefore, in my mind, our future hinges directly upon what our scouts think of Mariota. While there are never any guarantees, I think our planning in this regard is a simple function of our opinion of his future prospects: - If we think that Mariota *MIGHT* some day be top 5 in the league, we trade up aggressively.
- If we think that Mariota *MIGHT* some day be top 10 in the league, we trade up if a reasonable deal can be had.
- If we think that Mariota *MIGHT* some day be top 15 in the league, we take him if he drops to 6th.
So JS23, while I *completely agree with you on the quickest path to improvement for next season that the running game is our best approach, I think that for the longer term, we have to use our position at 6th pick to leverage the QB spot if we believe that there is a top 15 or better QB prospect in the draft this year.
Absolutely. Teams can win a Super Bowl with a Top 10 to 15 QB. You don't necessarily need a Top 3 or 5 guy. But you absolutely can't have a guy in the bottom half of the league. Your team would simply have to hit on all cylinders (rushing attack, Defense, Special Teams) in order to overcome a liability at QB. I'm not even sure we should get hung up on whether Mariota is going to be a Top 10 guy, 15 guy, etc. The real questions for the Jets are.... 1. Mariota has all the measurables but can his college game translate into the NFL and can he do all the things necessary (play from under Center, make reads and progressions) to win at the NFL level? 2. Is he an upgrade over Geno Smith? If the answers are Yes then they should take him at #6. To me, those are really the only key questions....is he capable of winning in the NFL and is he an upgrade over what we have now? Now, here's the hard part....do the Jets have the scouting and assessment abilities to answer the above questions correctly?It is nice in the morning to wake up to one of the Hampur's truly excellent posters reply to my post and opening with the word absolutely. I can use a good day since I'm giving an exam to 700 physics students who have lost 4/16 lectures leading to this first midterm for weather reasons. Every off season I have a new straw to grasp at. As a Jets fan, we become the world's experts at this enterprise. The house cleaning of the scouting department by our new former-scout GM is this year's straw. For me, I accept what's proven, believe what I want from the rest, and enjoy noting when there are odd seemly unrelated events that balance things out. Pop culture calls this karma (see the TV show "My Name is Earl"). I'm hoping that the karma train balances the universe and provides as much Jets Front Office joy affiliated with the word scout as we've seen internet angst from that same word.
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Post by carlito1171 on Mar 3, 2015 6:54:10 GMT -5
If I knew the answer to this I would be a GM, but not here. I'm trying to figure out what QB's are slated to hit FA in about 2-3 years down the road and if they'd be alternatives for the Jets. You don't have to be a GM to know that do you? (isn't it common knowledge? which I don't happen to know how to look up) Eh, QBs worth a damn hardly ever shake free in FA. Esp in this "QB driven era". If we want a franchise guy he's coming from the draft.....
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Post by nyjets1969 on Mar 5, 2015 12:51:47 GMT -5
The 2 best QB in this draft are Garret Grayson who plays out of a pro style offense and Bryce Petty The Jet can easily get their franchise guy. without out wasting the #6 on overhyped option QBS who are not equipped to run a NFL offense. At #6 I take Cooper if mariota is their I trade the pick to the Eagles and get a ton of picks plus Foles. Mariota has bust written all over him.
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Mar 5, 2015 13:06:29 GMT -5
ok, pretty slim pickings. RGIII, Sam Bradford, or Cam Newton? Maybe? ?? The problem with that is that anyone who's any good is getting extended prior to FA. Who's the last big name QB in their prime or close to it to hit FA? Other than Peyton with his injury concern/Colts drafting Luck. That was a one in a million situation.
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Post by DDNYjets on Mar 5, 2015 13:15:05 GMT -5
The Jets ARE rebuilding, they are coming off a 4-12 season, they have a huge question mark at QB and holes all over the defense and offense. Other than a decent defensive line and a couple good vet O linemen, the Jets have many needs. Add in the fact that they have a first time HC and GM and the Jets are the very definition of a rebuilding team. As as far as the QB goes. Forget free agency, you are not going to get a long term solution there, other than a very rare instance like Mr. Forehead a few years ago, good QBs don't hit free agency. You have to draft and develop them. In the meantime you build as good of a team around whatever QB you have on the roster and hope you hit on a kid and he develops into a long term solution. This is absolute complete bullshit. We don't have holes all over as you proclaim. We are a QB and maybe a few corners away from grabbing a wild card noise. We've been a QB away for 45 years.
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Post by cgjet on Mar 6, 2015 11:20:14 GMT -5
Sam Bradford has had the shit beat out of him the last few years. However, if available, I'd go get him. Keep Geno and see if the light comes on in year 3. Personally, I don't believe either are the long term answer, but that's how I'd play it this year. Upgrade the pieces around the QB position and see how the starter responds. Eventually, the Jets need to find "their quarterback," but for now I'd play it out and see what happens.
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Post by TokyoJetsFan on Mar 6, 2015 12:14:06 GMT -5
Weird feeling, and not just because we traded for Marshall, that the Jets will pull off a Cutler trade. Everyone knows Chicago wants to get rid of him and Jets are one of the few teams with the need and cap space that could handle his contract, and probably even get a draft pick from Chicago as part of the deal to get that contract off their book.
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Post by jetstream23 on Mar 6, 2015 12:22:40 GMT -5
Weird feeling, and not just because we traded for Marshall, that the Jets will pull off a Cutler trade. Everyone knows Chicago wants to get rid of him and Jets are one of the few teams with the need and cap space that could handle his contract, and probably even get a draft pick from Chicago as part of the deal to get that contract off their book. What would the Jets give up for Cutler? We're now without a 5th round pick and either a 4th or 6th depending on Harvin. I guess the Jets could cut Harvin (keeping the 4th, losing the 6th) and trade that 4th for Cutler but man...we'd be looking at a quick Draft in April with only 4 picks. (Are you and I really talking football? How are the kids and the car? lol)
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Post by TokyoJetsFan on Mar 6, 2015 12:27:25 GMT -5
Weird feeling, and not just because we traded for Marshall, that the Jets will pull off a Cutler trade. Everyone knows Chicago wants to get rid of him and Jets are one of the few teams with the need and cap space that could handle his contract, and probably even get a draft pick from Chicago as part of the deal to get that contract off their book. What would the Jets give up for Cutler? We're now without a 5th round pick and either a 4th or 6th depending on Harvin. I guess the Jets could cut Harvin (keeping the 4th, losing the 6th) and trade that 4th for Cutler but man...we'd be looking at a quick Draft in April with only 4 picks. (Are you and I really talking football? How are the kids and the car? lol) Im saying we would maybe get a draft pick, not give one up(article below from December)..they are that desperate to get rid of his contract and him...or at the worst switch draft positions in one of the latter rounds? Everyone good bro...heading to Vegas today if you happen to be there. Thee Chicago Bears may have to take unprecedented action to trade Jay Cutler. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Bears could become the first team to ever give up a player and a draft pick in exchange for a lower draft pick. The Bears would be willingly making an unfair trade against themselves, but they may have to dump Cutler's $25.5 million in guarantees still owed to him. The Bears may be looking to cut ties with the quarterback after signing him to the richest contract in the NFL this past offseason. The team is mired in a 5-9 season for which Cutler has absorbed a lot of blame. Cutler leads the NFL with 18 interceptions and 24 total turnovers this season. A trade would amount to a salary dump. Any potential partner has to give up nominal compensation, otherwise the Bears might be willing to give Cutler away for nothing. In Schefter's scenario, the Bears could give up (hypothetically) Cutler AND a first round pick for another team's sixth round pick.
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Post by HawkeyeJet on Mar 6, 2015 13:08:42 GMT -5
Cook has just as many holes as either of these guys. He has the same accuracy concerns that Mariota would have, if not moreso.
Even if he is slightly less risky than Mariota(which he likely isn't) who says the Jets are in a position to take him next year. I will say this right now, with our cap space and high draft pick and last place schedule, I'll be shocked if we are picking in the top 6 again. So now all the sudden we are the ones paying a kings ransom to move up? What if there is a really QB needy team picking early and they love Cook and won't trade regardless.
You can't just wait and assume we will have a shot at Cook even if you thought he was great.
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Post by Paradis on Mar 6, 2015 14:35:51 GMT -5
Comjng into this late, but at this point the cards have been played. The market is bare, the draft is as well. You really only have the one option.;
--play out Geno and see what happens with Gailey. If he made Fitz, and thigpen look good then let's try geno.
--get a journeyman backup in case you need a bandaide.
--draft a developmental guy like Grayson or Bridge
Then re-assess your options next year.
In the meantime, invest Fort knox on getting your O humming. Get another explosive back, draft a WR, and find some fucjk you Guards
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Post by jetstream23 on Mar 6, 2015 14:42:50 GMT -5
What would the Jets give up for Cutler? We're now without a 5th round pick and either a 4th or 6th depending on Harvin. I guess the Jets could cut Harvin (keeping the 4th, losing the 6th) and trade that 4th for Cutler but man...we'd be looking at a quick Draft in April with only 4 picks. (Are you and I really talking football? How are the kids and the car? lol) Im saying we would maybe get a draft pick, not give one up(article below from December)..they are that desperate to get rid of his contract and him...or at the worst switch draft positions in one of the latter rounds? Everyone good bro...heading to Vegas today if you happen to be there.Thee Chicago Bears may have to take unprecedented action to trade Jay Cutler. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Bears could become the first team to ever give up a player and a draft pick in exchange for a lower draft pick. The Bears would be willingly making an unfair trade against themselves, but they may have to dump Cutler's $25.5 million in guarantees still owed to him. The Bears may be looking to cut ties with the quarterback after signing him to the richest contract in the NFL this past offseason. The team is mired in a 5-9 season for which Cutler has absorbed a lot of blame. Cutler leads the NFL with 18 interceptions and 24 total turnovers this season. A trade would amount to a salary dump. Any potential partner has to give up nominal compensation, otherwise the Bears might be willing to give Cutler away for nothing. In Schefter's scenario, the Bears could give up (hypothetically) Cutler AND a first round pick for another team's sixth round pick. Not this time. I'll be there in mid-April though.
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Mar 6, 2015 15:50:22 GMT -5
Weird feeling, and not just because we traded for Marshall, that the Jets will pull off a Cutler trade. Everyone knows Chicago wants to get rid of him and Jets are one of the few teams with the need and cap space that could handle his contract, and probably even get a draft pick from Chicago as part of the deal to get that contract off their book. What would the Jets give up for Cutler? We're now without a 5th round pick and either a 4th or 6th depending on Harvin. I guess the Jets could cut Harvin (keeping the 4th, losing the 6th) and trade that 4th for Cutler but man...we'd be looking at a quick Draft in April with only 4 picks. (Are you and I really talking football? How are the kids and the car? lol) How about we give them Percy Harvin and they give us our 5th and 6th round picks back? BWAAHAHAHAHHAHAH what will that Chicago writer say then?
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Post by jcappy on Mar 6, 2015 16:42:16 GMT -5
Jace has had it with all your shit
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