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Post by Ff2 on Jul 7, 2016 13:00:31 GMT -5
And now we have the Minn.incident. Young black man, licensed to carry...shot reaching for his wallet sitting on passenger seat. This is what I'm talking about, the more we carry, the more LEO have to worry about. He had no record. Was responsible. This one is going to be a lot harder to make sense of. im gonna guess this poor cop isn't glad this guy carried. Again...you are basing your opinion on what the girlfriends version was...unverified early tidbits of info from a frothing media...and an obviously alarming vid that shows nothing more than the guy bleeding. For the record, when I'm stopped by the cawps (it happens)...I keep my hands on the steering wheel or dashboard until I'm directed otherwise from the cawp...I'd like to know why the passenger on a car stop was reaching for his wallet as well. Entirely possible the cawp fvcked up...or the guy didnt follow directions...we cant tell from the clip we just saw. I'll wait until more info becomes available before I judge this one as well. Fair enough...but I have to wonder why a guy with a clean record and a license to carry would whip out his gun over a busted tail light. Maybe the cop told him to keep his hands visible and he moved to get wallet out of habit, like we all do when stopped. No idea. Not sure if Im making myself clear here...I'm not thinking cops are out to shoot people...Im saying increased carry is going to lead to increased "accidents." No matter who is at fault.
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Post by bxjetfan on Jul 7, 2016 13:14:14 GMT -5
Some guys just shouldn't be cops. All the more reason to do what they say because you might just be dealing with Barney Fife.
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Post by Gunnails on Jul 7, 2016 13:37:47 GMT -5
.Im saying increased carry is going to lead to increased "accidents." No matter who is at fault. ========================================= I think that is a reasonable assumption, in the same sense that with an increase of bicycle riders the likelihood of bike accidents increase. I'm unsure what your larger point may be? I am no where near an expert but as a gun enthusiast and a supporter of the 2nd I try to keep up on local and federal gun laws and news stories involving people exercising there 2nd. IMHO I think Cawps are 50/50 on whether citizens should be allowed to carry. Most all concealed carriers are gun guys/gun geeks, they are vetted, they tend to put a lot of thought in to what and how they carry, practice (a lot),and study the self defense laws and the gun laws that apply to them. They take concealed or open carry serious, to the point that they are somewhat obsessive and think out different scenarios. Of course there are always gun owners that will not respect the gun and it's consequences or be come complacent with safe handling, storage, etc. We hear about it weekly. The training level for firearms with Cawps varies widely from dept. to dept., some have intense training some have minimal training. Most cawps are not gun guys, the gun is just another tool on the belt, they are issued a gun that may or may not be right for them, they may or may not be proficient with guns. Their reasons for being cawps has little to do with being able to carry a gun. Cawps are people, they are influenced by the media and there peers, there culture, there upbringing, etc. We can find videos of cawps reacting frightened and over reacting to folks carrying guns, and others who shrug it off. I've heard that many Cawps never draw there weapon in there whole careerr, I think it's safe to assume that many cawps never come across a concealed weapons carrier and when they do they may become frightened and over react, just as John Q Public may over react. Stats tell us that concealed permit holders are the more law abiding then cops, not to say cawps aren't law abiding, just saying a good guy with a gun is not a fantasy.
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Post by Ff2 on Jul 7, 2016 13:41:04 GMT -5
.Im saying increased carry is going to lead to increased "accidents." No matter who is at fault. ========================================= I think that is a reasonable assumption, in the same sense that with an increase of bicycle riders the likelihood of bike accidents increase. I'm unsure what your larger point may be? I think a shit load more unneeded deaths is a large enough point. My concern is the traditional good guy with a gun will be replaced with the scared moron with a gun who doesn't realize it a tool of last resort. Like this idiot who thinks its smart to wave at kids to get them to move. www.insideedition.com/headlines/17370-gun-toting-homeowner-identified-as-decorated-pentagon-official-i-can-shoot-the-f-out-of
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Post by 2milehighJet on Jul 7, 2016 13:47:54 GMT -5
Some guys just shouldn't be cops. All the more reason to do what they say because you might just be dealing with Barney Fife. Exactly, quit being a tough guy or girl. Do what they say, simple. get ticket for busted tail light. You cant train someone in these situation, it will never be a real life situation until it is, and the cop reacted in the worst result possible.
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Post by Gunnails on Jul 7, 2016 13:50:11 GMT -5
I think a shit load more unneeded deaths is a large enough point. ====================================== A shit load is an overstatement, and you are failing to look at the overwhelming "good" that society benefits from the concealed carrier. I'll take wag that for every concealed carrier killed by the Cawps, their are a 100,000 lives defended by concealed carriers.
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Post by Harrier on Jul 7, 2016 13:53:01 GMT -5
Just seen the footage on the news. Pretty fucked up they gunned him down for fuck all, if I was black or had a penis the size of a black mans i'd be pissed.
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Post by Ff2 on Jul 7, 2016 14:01:08 GMT -5
I think a shit load more unneeded deaths is a large enough point. ====================================== A shit load is an overstatement, and you are failing to look at the overwhelming "good" that society benefits from the concealed carrier. I'll take wag that for every concealed carrier killed by the Cawps, their are a 100,000 lives defended by concealed carriers. Again, Im talking about the future. I obviously don't have as much faith in the next generation of concealed carriers as you do. I hope Im proven wrong.
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Post by Mond the Bagnificient on Jul 7, 2016 14:24:21 GMT -5
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Post by DDNYjets on Jul 7, 2016 14:31:00 GMT -5
====================================== A shit load is an overstatement, and you are failing to look at the overwhelming "good" that society benefits from the concealed carrier. I'll take wag that for every concealed carrier killed by the Cawps, their are a 100,000 lives defended by concealed carriers. Again, Im talking about the future. I obviously don't have as much faith in the next generation of concealed carriers as you do. I hope Im proven wrong. I dont have much faith in the next generation period. I think both these cases are much more compelling than Ferguson or Baltimore. Seems like the police had both of these situations under control and still discharged their firearms. However both in both these cases the people may have been armed. So it will come down to those crucial seconds before they made the decision to use deadly force. I do find it odd that the girlfriend decided to live-stream her dying boyfriend. If a loved one was next to me dying the last thing I would think would be to broadcast it. My guess is she was already videotaping the incident in which case we may end up with more information than we have. Did the officer tell him not to reach their after he told him he was carrying? It will basically come down to that.
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Post by DDNYjets on Jul 7, 2016 14:37:59 GMT -5
Nobody deserves to die for road rage. Although you cant ignore how their actions put them in dangerous situations. Can't believe I didnt hear about this one until now. No mention of the cop's race in any story. His name is Wayne Isaacs. My guess is black-on-black therefore nobody gives a shit.
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Jul 7, 2016 14:38:21 GMT -5
“At the end of the day, all that matters to me is that he got shot by a cop for no reason,” Victor Dempsey said. Really? REALLY? He walked up to someone, cop or not, and starts throwing haymakers through the window. But he got shot for no reason. Idiots like this just make it worse.
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Post by Mond the Bagnificient on Jul 7, 2016 14:47:56 GMT -5
Nobody deserves to die for road rage. Although you cant ignore how their actions put them in dangerous situations. Can't believe I didnt hear about this one until now. No mention of the cop's race in any story. His name is Wayne Isaacs. My guess is black-on-black therefore nobody gives a shit. He deserved to die because he was intent on bringing severe bodily harm to another human being. Therefore, yes, his death is warranted.
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Post by Trades on Jul 7, 2016 15:19:15 GMT -5
Nobody deserves to die for road rage. Although you cant ignore how their actions put them in dangerous situations. Can't believe I didnt hear about this one until now. No mention of the cop's race in any story. His name is Wayne Isaacs. My guess is black-on-black therefore nobody gives a shit. He deserved to die because he was intent on bringing severe bodily harm to another human being. Therefore, yes, his death is warranted. There is no personal responsibility for anything anymore.
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Post by DDNYjets on Jul 7, 2016 15:44:05 GMT -5
Nobody deserves to die for road rage. Although you cant ignore how their actions put them in dangerous situations. Can't believe I didnt hear about this one until now. No mention of the cop's race in any story. His name is Wayne Isaacs. My guess is black-on-black therefore nobody gives a shit. He deserved to die because he was intent on bringing severe bodily harm to another human being. Therefore, yes, his death is warranted. I disagree. I dont think punching someone warrants a death. But at the same time I am not going to blame the person that shot him. Just like I dont think you deserve to die for breaking into someone's house but if they shoot and kill you its your fault for putting yourself in that situation.
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