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Post by southside on Jan 9, 2015 13:39:58 GMT -5
Good. Go ignore anyone who calls you out on your bullshit. Fucking cry baby. You pulled the same shit at JI all the time which is why I never bothered even replying to you. And BTW, you quoted me so shut the fuck up then if you don't like what I have to say about it, decide to tell me why I'm an idiot (which you did a terrible job of comparing interior lineman to pass rushers which is what Coples is as an OLB and down lineman... another point which you keep conveniently ignoring), and then tell me you're going to ignore me? Back on topic with McCrybaby ignoring me, Coples with his hand in the ground (AKA a passrusher) is mediocre at best. 6.5 sacks is his best season as an OLB, which is a rush linebacker, and 5.5 sacks as an every down lineman. And if the justification is that he wasn't rushing the passer all the time and was played out of position then here's your retort: He sucks as a line backer and he's UDFA level as a defensive lineman rushing the passer. Let his contract play out and let him go play backup somewhere else. Holy shit, bro. You're so buttflustered. It's an internet messageboard, it's not that serious. Yeah, that's the point dipshit. I don't give a fuck actually so I'm not sure what you're trying to convey. Obviously I've moved on. I suggest you do the same.
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Post by southside on Jan 9, 2015 13:42:56 GMT -5
With the 16th pick in the draft I'd call him a bust. But I can agree he's not on Stephen Hill or Gholston level either. Knowing what you know about him what round would you draft him in? I'll be honest, I wouldn't draft him it all. If I was to put a grade on it then I'd say a 5th. I can also agree that his first year showed some promise but he also showed a lot of the negatives that scouts pegged him for too. Even in his first year as a DLineman he showed really bad instincts in diagnosing run plays. He never set the edge either which is unforgivable. The guy has been criticized by Rex every year for his laziness in one way or another. It shows up on the field too. He's finally gotten better with the run but he's the very definition of JAG. You know what you have in him. If the new regime doesn't have the ability to draft a guy with equal production at worst then I'd say we're in for another over haul in 3 years because that's pretty bad. Get someone in here that doesn't need motivational coaching in order to plea with him to work harder. Honestly, go back and look at the 2012 draft and tell me who you would take over him. I see about 30 names that are better or even with him. Saying you'd take him in the 5th round is ridiculous. I get that he can be lazy and runs hot and cold. The fact is he's still a very useful player. I'm not talking about going back in time and drafting out of those players. I'm talking about right now, upcoming draft, knowing what I know about what type of player he is, I'd expect that production out of a 5th round player. And I'm going to disagree with you again because I don't think he's "useful" or even "very useful". He's being forced to play different positions as a last ditch effort to justify drafting him in the first place. That's on Rex being a stubborn ass players coach who doesn't have the balls to bench "his guys". I've never seen a coach with less balls than Rex when it came to benching a bad player. I'm really surprised he did it with Calvin Pryor.
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Jan 9, 2015 13:47:50 GMT -5
Honestly, go back and look at the 2012 draft and tell me who you would take over him. I see about 30 names that are better or even with him. Saying you'd take him in the 5th round is ridiculous. I get that he can be lazy and runs hot and cold. The fact is he's still a very useful player. I'm not talking about going back in time and drafting out of those players. I'm talking about right now, upcoming draft, knowing what I know about what type of player he is, I'd expect that production out of a 5th round player. And I'm going to disagree with you again because I don't think he's "useful" or even "very useful". He's being forced to play different positions as a last ditch effort to justify drafting him in the first place. That's on Rex being a stubborn ass players coach who doesn't have the balls to bench "his guys". I've never seen a coach with less balls than Rex when it came to benching a bad player. I'm really surprised he did it with Calvin Pryor. He's not being forced to play different positions as a last ditch effort to justify playing him. He's being forced to play out of position, because we have two of the best 3-4 DE's in the game. The fact that a college DT has enough talent to even try playing OLB is ridiculous. Knowing what I know now I'd still take him in the 2nd round. He runs a little more hot and cold than I thought, but a 8-10 year start with no probowls is a pretty good pick.
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Post by southside on Jan 9, 2015 13:48:58 GMT -5
Coples isn't a good OLB. He isn't a good defensive lineman either. His ceiling is career backup. That's my opinion. You might not like it but can you really tell me I'm completely wrong either? Justify your position of saying I'm wrong.
He's inconsistent. He rarely makes a play by himself (always the second man on the QB). He's shown really questionable instincts (questionable because I'm questioning whether he has any at all).
I don't see how that's a useful player. I get that he has a role but that's not the role I'd expect at all with the 16th overall pick and that's why he's a bust. He's a bust because he failed to reach his potential as a player. He doesn't have the passion. He was a guy that got by on his raw talent until his Sr year when he was exposed against better competition. That should have been a red flag for the Jets especially since they were coming off the heels of Vernon Gholston.
I'm not saying he's useless. He's a career backup. He is certainly not a guy that can affect a game. In fact I've never seen him make a single game changing tackle, sack, INT, fumble, nada. Refresh my memory if there is one.
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Jan 9, 2015 13:51:56 GMT -5
I'm not saying he's useless. He's a career backup. He is certainly not a guy that can affect a game. In fact I've never seen him make a single game changing tackle, sack, INT, fumble, nada. Refresh my memory if there is one. You know he led our team in QB pressures in 2013 right? He made a HUGE tackle on a reverse to help us stop and beat the Saints. He hit Brees a few times that game.
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fnordcirclejerk
Full Member
I touch myself in public
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The Pedotriats Way
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Post by fnordcirclejerk on Jan 9, 2015 13:55:20 GMT -5
Coples is a guy who will probably flourish in the right system and with another edge rusher.
He reminds me of Willie McGinest who was a guy who got moved around a lot too and had a ton of 5 and 6 sack seasons but was still, overall, a solid player.
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Post by southside on Jan 9, 2015 13:55:24 GMT -5
I'm not talking about going back in time and drafting out of those players. I'm talking about right now, upcoming draft, knowing what I know about what type of player he is, I'd expect that production out of a 5th round player. And I'm going to disagree with you again because I don't think he's "useful" or even "very useful". He's being forced to play different positions as a last ditch effort to justify drafting him in the first place. That's on Rex being a stubborn ass players coach who doesn't have the balls to bench "his guys". I've never seen a coach with less balls than Rex when it came to benching a bad player. I'm really surprised he did it with Calvin Pryor. He's not being forced to play different positions as a last ditch effort to justify playing him. He's being forced to play out of position, because we have two of the best 3-4 DE's in the game. The fact that a college DT has enough talent to even try playing OLB is ridiculous. Knowing what I know now I'd still take him in the 2nd round. He runs a little more hot and cold than I thought, but a 8-10 year start with no probowls is a pretty good pick. That's the very basis that players like him and Gholston are drafted on, physical freak attributes. But he didn't even get close to his potential. If he was so good as a DT/DE then why did the Jets draft Richardson in the first place? It's because they knew what he was. Rex was on Coples from day one about his laziness, especially in the weight room. I'm sure the Jets asking him to cut weight was like a blessing to him. But here's where you are going to disagree with me, Coples doesn't have the talent to play OLB at all. He's stiff and slow and has zero instincts for the position. I'm being harsh but it's my honest opinion. People got pissed off at me when I said the same thing about Stephen Hill. I was his BIGGEST detractor and everyone called me an asshole because I called him a bust before everyone wanted to admit it. Couldn't catch, couldn't run routes, had amazing physical ability. Coples is marginal at best as a DE/DT and on our team he has absolutely no place. He lost his position to an undrafted try out in Damon Harrison and a rookie who in two weeks of camp had Coples looking expendable. Granted, Richardson is a badass but that also goes to show how much fight Coples has in him. Even Rex would make jokes about him, calling him a puppy. Hardly the junkyard dog he thought he was drafting.
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Post by southside on Jan 9, 2015 14:01:34 GMT -5
Coples is a guy who will probably flourish in the right system and with another edge rusher. He reminds me of Willie McGinest who was a guy who got moved around a lot too and had a ton of 5 and 6 sack seasons but was still, overall, a solid player. I can buy that comparison. Assuming that Coples after 10 years in the league putting up meh numbers ends up with one of the best cheaters in the league so he knows exactly where the play is going and can just beat the guys to the spot. Just kidding, a little bit serious though. I'm not saying Coples isn't worthless. He can at least play against the competition unlike some of our previous busts. But that's not saying much either. We haven't had a real OLB since Mangini came and changed us to a 3-4. It's always been some not good enough 43 DE who got a shot at the position out of necessity. Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace, Quinton Coples.... sorry that's a sad list and the Jets have been trotting out this garbage for a long time.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 9, 2015 14:01:41 GMT -5
Just for some perspective, if Coples' 5th year is picked up he will be paid approx 7.5 million dollars, that puts him right at the 15th highest paid DE in the league. Sorry, but Coples hasn't shown anything that warrants that kind of money. Again, it would be more prudent to see what he actually does in a 4-3 before you go committing decent money to him. I agree, that's over paying him... today. That could easily change in a year. The thing is, if he blows up in this new coaches system, there's no way we're be able to resign him and we'll be wishing we could have him for 7-8 million. I think it's worth the gamble. We spent the pick, we invested the time, i'm OK with an extra 3 mill his way and going all in on Coples. I truly believe the upside is worth it. If the light turns on, to me, he's got a higher ceiling that both Mo and Richardson.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 9, 2015 14:02:04 GMT -5
Also, because Jerry Hughes.
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Jan 9, 2015 14:03:42 GMT -5
He's not being forced to play different positions as a last ditch effort to justify playing him. He's being forced to play out of position, because we have two of the best 3-4 DE's in the game. The fact that a college DT has enough talent to even try playing OLB is ridiculous. Knowing what I know now I'd still take him in the 2nd round. He runs a little more hot and cold than I thought, but a 8-10 year start with no probowls is a pretty good pick. That's the very basis that players like him and Gholston are drafted on, physical freak attributes. But he didn't even get close to his potential. If he was so good as a DT/DE then why did the Jets draft Richardson in the first place? It's because they knew what he was. Rex was on Coples from day one about his laziness, especially in the weight room. I'm sure the Jets asking him to cut weight was like a blessing to him. But here's where you are going to disagree with me, Coples doesn't have the talent to play OLB at all. He's stiff and slow and has zero instincts for the position. I'm being harsh but it's my honest opinion. People got pissed off at me when I said the same thing about Stephen Hill. I was his BIGGEST detractor and everyone called me an asshole because I called him a bust before everyone wanted to admit it. Couldn't catch, couldn't run routes, had amazing physical ability. Coples is marginal at best as a DE/DT and on our team he has absolutely no place. He lost his position to an undrafted try out in Damon Harrison and a rookie who in two weeks of camp had Coples looking expendable. Granted, Richardson is a badass but that also goes to show how much fight Coples has in him. Even Rex would make jokes about him, calling him a puppy. Hardly the junkyard dog he thought he was drafting. We don't really disagree there. I don't think he can play OLB. He's semi serviceable there, but it's doing him a disservice by putting him there. We drafted Richardson, because we felt he was the best available player which was true. Also Rex worked Coples out at OLB before the draft and thought he could be the next Adalius Thomas. He was obviously wrong about that. Now we're stuck with Coples at OLB, because Richardson and Wilkerson are bonafide studs, and he's better than our OLBs. It's obvious to everyone he'd be better off playing DE/DT in a 4-3. Also saying he lost his spot to some of the best players in the NFL at their positions just shows the type of talent we have on our Dline. A lot of players would lose their starting spots to Richardson, Wilkerson, and Harrison.
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Jan 9, 2015 14:05:28 GMT -5
Also, because Jerry Hughes. Man I really wanted Jerry Hughes in that draft. It's nice seeing him finally flourish. Sucks that it's with Buffalo tho.
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Post by southside on Jan 9, 2015 14:06:44 GMT -5
Just for some perspective, if Coples' 5th year is picked up he will be paid approx 7.5 million dollars, that puts him right at the 15th highest paid DE in the league. Sorry, but Coples hasn't shown anything that warrants that kind of money. Again, it would be more prudent to see what he actually does in a 4-3 before you go committing decent money to him. I agree, that's over paying him... today. That could easily change in a year. The thing is, if he blows up in this new coaches system, there's no way we're be able to resign him and we'll be wishing we could have him for 7-8 million. I think it's worth the gamble. We spent the pick, we invested the time, i'm OK with an extra 3 mill his way and going all in on Coples. I truly believe the upside is worth it. If the light turns on, to me, he's got a higher ceiling that both Mo and Richardson. That's the same thinking that got Tannenbaum fired. And if you really think that he's got a higher ceiling than Mo or Richardson can you explain what the measurements are? Because if it's his ability to dominate a game Coples has never shown that ability at all. Like not even close to it. If you mean that he'd be capable of getting more sacks then you have a point. However, even your premise is built on an "IF". IF Coples turns on the figurative "light". I don't even know what that means anymore. You either have that fire or you don't. You can't fake passion. Coples doesn't have what it takes to use every ounce of his talent on every down that he's on the field. He's shown that, I'd say that every scout that looked at him except for Rex thought the exact same thing.
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Post by southside on Jan 9, 2015 14:11:44 GMT -5
That's the very basis that players like him and Gholston are drafted on, physical freak attributes. But he didn't even get close to his potential. If he was so good as a DT/DE then why did the Jets draft Richardson in the first place? It's because they knew what he was. Rex was on Coples from day one about his laziness, especially in the weight room. I'm sure the Jets asking him to cut weight was like a blessing to him. But here's where you are going to disagree with me, Coples doesn't have the talent to play OLB at all. He's stiff and slow and has zero instincts for the position. I'm being harsh but it's my honest opinion. People got pissed off at me when I said the same thing about Stephen Hill. I was his BIGGEST detractor and everyone called me an asshole because I called him a bust before everyone wanted to admit it. Couldn't catch, couldn't run routes, had amazing physical ability. Coples is marginal at best as a DE/DT and on our team he has absolutely no place. He lost his position to an undrafted try out in Damon Harrison and a rookie who in two weeks of camp had Coples looking expendable. Granted, Richardson is a badass but that also goes to show how much fight Coples has in him. Even Rex would make jokes about him, calling him a puppy. Hardly the junkyard dog he thought he was drafting. We don't really disagree there. I don't think he can play OLB. He's semi serviceable there, but it's doing him a disservice by putting him there. We drafted Richardson, because we felt he was the best available player which was true. Also Rex worked Coples out at OLB before the draft and thought he could be the next Adalius Thomas. He was obviously wrong about that. Now we're stuck with Coples at OLB, because Richardson and Wilkerson are bonafide studs, and he's better than our OLBs. It's obvious to everyone he'd be better off playing DE/DT in a 4-3. Also saying he lost his spot to some of the best players in the NFL at their positions just shows the type of talent we have on our Dline. A lot of players would lose their starting spots to Richardson, Wilkerson, and Harrison. Which is really my position in the whole argument. I personally think the guy has shown all that he's going to show. I would be very curious, in fact I'm hoping, to see the new coach switch this team FINALLY towards the personnel that we have on the defensive side of the ball, which is a 43 defense. We never had what the Steelers or the Ravens had at LB. Those guys were very rare which is why they dominated on defense for all those years. Unfortunately you get coaches that coach their system and not the players. At least Rex put us in multiple fronts but in the end, this team is built on defense as a 43 defense based on talent. I'd like to see Coples on one side and Wilk on the other with Snacks and Richardson in the middle. David Harris, if he's still here, would be a good MLB. Davis could play MLB too but if Harris is still around I like his ability to diagnose the play better than Davis and I want to see Davis playing the traditional Sam Linebacker role. Then you'll see whether Coples really can be anything. But it's not worth paying him 8 million guaranteed before you find that out either. And honestly, he's already played that position many times here as well. To pretend that he didn't put his hand in the dirt and rush from the outside would be in denial. Rex put him there a lot more than people are willing to admit.
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Post by Paradis on Jan 9, 2015 14:15:57 GMT -5
I agree, that's over paying him... today. That could easily change in a year. The thing is, if he blows up in this new coaches system, there's no way we're be able to resign him and we'll be wishing we could have him for 7-8 million. I think it's worth the gamble. We spent the pick, we invested the time, i'm OK with an extra 3 mill his way and going all in on Coples. I truly believe the upside is worth it. If the light turns on, to me, he's got a higher ceiling that both Mo and Richardson. That's the same thinking that got Tannenbaum fired. And if you really think that he's got a higher ceiling than Mo or Richardson can you explain what the measurements are? Because if it's his ability to dominate a game Coples has never shown that ability at all. Like not even close to it. If you mean that he'd be capable of getting more sacks then you have a point. However, even your premise is built on an "IF". IF Coples turns on the figurative "light". I don't even know what that means anymore. You either have that fire or you don't. You can't fake passion. Coples doesn't have what it takes to use every ounce of his talent on every down that he's on the field. He's shown that, I'd say that every scout that looked at him except for Rex thought the exact same thing. What are you even talking about? You sound like an asshole whose agenda is quickly escalating into a Hot guy I'd like to blowed diatribe. I get it, WE ALL GET IT. You don't think he's all that and a can of soup. You're fixated on his sack stats and have shown me nothing that says you have fucking clue what his pedigree is. He was never supposed to be a sack artist. You don't think the light will turn on, or that he'll ever come around in the passion department? Fine. Leave it at that. But don't tell me what he is, or isn't capable of. I stand by the fact that we've come this far with him, and to me, he's on the fringe. The right coach/system could put him over into the dominating category. I want be able to reap that if possible - and an extra few mil is worth it when you're talking about a guy with ton of talent.
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