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Post by Paradis on Dec 15, 2016 1:47:08 GMT -5
Look, I don't care enough for Hack to argue with guys that I like and whose opinions I respect and generally agree with. I didn't like the Hack pick, I don't think he is as hopeless as some of you guys think he is and we can all agree that we are better off if he pans out. Fair enough? I'm hanging up my negative nelly cleats. I had to exorcise those demons one last time... I hope he blows my scalp off next year. I just don't want the franchise to bank on it. That theoretical is too far fetched to sway draft/FA decision making. I think people love the idea of Hackenburg, more than the reality. I can appreciate that, but it's time to move on. |
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Post by JStokes on Dec 15, 2016 7:15:24 GMT -5
The most MOST important inbred talent for a QB is ACCURACY. You can't fix inaccuracy. All the "tweaking" in the world can't make a .240 hitter a .330 hitter.
All the coaching in the world isn't going to change him from a 54% passer in COLLEGE to a 65% passer in the NFL. But he's a nice kid. _ Justin Turner says hi. Justin Turner is a lifetime .282 hitter. _ |
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 15, 2016 7:52:49 GMT -5
Justin Turner is a lifetime .282 hitter. _ Prior to 2014, he had a career BA of .260 in 301 games, in the 386 games since he has hit .296. PS Tom Brady was a sixth round draft pick and Tony Romo, Warren Moon and Kurt Warner were not even drafted. So, it appears players can become more than their "evaluators" say they are. |
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Post by JStokes on Dec 15, 2016 9:53:16 GMT -5
Justin Turner is a lifetime .282 hitter. _ Prior to 2014, he had a career BA of .260 in 301 games, in the 386 games since he has hit .296. PS Tom Cum guzzelling fag was a sixth round draft pick and Tony Romo, Warren Moon and Kurt Warner were not even drafted. So, it appears players can become more than their "evaluators" say they are. But he was never a .240 hitter. And he's always been about a .280 hitter. He has one outlier season (in 109 games) where he hit .340 but then he fell right back to .295 then in his first season of 150 games last year he hit .275. He's not a .330 hitter. Guys can improve. Of course. If you think a few "tweaks" are going to make a guy who couldn't complete passes against air in shirts and shorts into a guy who can consistently complete 65% of his passes then I applaud your optimism. _ |
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 15, 2016 11:55:23 GMT -5
Prior to 2014, he had a career BA of .260 in 301 games, in the 386 games since he has hit .296. PS Tom Cum guzzelling fag was a sixth round draft pick and Tony Romo, Warren Moon and Kurt Warner were not even drafted. So, it appears players can become more than their "evaluators" say they are. But he was never a .240 hitter. And he's always been about a .280 hitter. He has one outlier season (in 109 games) where he hit .340 but then he fell right back to .295 then in his first season of 150 games last year he hit .275. He's not a .330 hitter. Guys can improve. Of course. If you think a few "tweaks" are going to make a guy who couldn't complete passes against air in shirts and shorts into a guy who can consistently complete 65% of his passes then I applaud your optimism. _ Disagree on the level of improvement by Turner. He was non-tendered by the Mets and signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers who just now have given him $64 million dollars for 4 years. His improvement with the Dodgers has truly been dramatic, and he attributes it to changes he made... Hey, I'm just rooting for the kid (and Petty). I'm trying to come up with reasons they will succeed, rather than committing them to being failures. Guys have greatly exceeded expectations in the past. James Harrison wasn't even drafted. Apparently he was too short and slow to play OLB or DE. Anyway, I get where you are coming from. But I like to see a guy actually fail at the NFL level before I commit to labeling them a failure. For example, when the Jets signed Aaron Maybin, I already knew he was a failure in the NFL and felt it was a monumental waste of a roster spot. |
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Post by JStokes on Dec 15, 2016 13:57:30 GMT -5
But he was never a .240 hitter. And he's always been about a .280 hitter. He has one outlier season (in 109 games) where he hit .340 but then he fell right back to .295 then in his first season of 150 games last year he hit .275. He's not a .330 hitter. Guys can improve. Of course. If you think a few "tweaks" are going to make a guy who couldn't complete passes against air in shirts and shorts into a guy who can consistently complete 65% of his passes then I applaud your optimism. _ Disagree on the level of improvement by Turner. He was non-tendered by the Mets and signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers who just now have given him $64 million dollars for 4 years. His improvement with the Dodgers has truly been dramatic, and he attributes it to changes he made... Hey, I'm just rooting for the kid (and Petty). I'm trying to come up with reasons they will succeed, rather than committing them to being failures. Guys have greatly exceeded expectations in the past. James Harrison wasn't even drafted. Apparently he was too short and slow to play OLB or DE. Anyway, I get where you are coming from. But I like to see a guy actually fail at the NFL level before I commit to labeling them a failure. For example, when the Jets signed Aaron Maybin, I already knew he was a failure in the NFL and felt it was a monumental waste of a roster spot. |
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Post by JStokes on Dec 15, 2016 14:01:01 GMT -5
I'm rooting for the kid too but I just don't see him as a naturally accurate thrower of the football. I don't think it' something you can improve tremendously on. I don't think it's a little tweak to his footwork or his mechanics--I just think he's naturally inaccurate.
I can't imagine that someone is going to take him and make him into a 65% passer. And he's really a statue back there.
I'm truly hoping that Petty shows a lot these last few weeks because I don't think Hack is anything we'll ever be able to count on.
I like the kid--I just don't think he'll ever be any good.
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Post by tinstar on Dec 15, 2016 18:12:25 GMT -5
He's not accurate. The most important TANGIBLE asset that a QB should have. Fucking guy is dirting simple swing passes or Tebowing them a mile over their head. He has no pocket presence and is a complete statue back there. Now he reminds you of Bledsoe...how? The most MOST important inbred talent for a QB is ACCURACY. You can't fix inaccuracy. All the "tweaking" in the world can't make a .240 hitter a .330 hitter. All the coaching in the world isn't going to change him from a 54% passer in COLLEGE to a 65% passer in the NFL. But he's a nice kid. _ See, If I thought Hackenberg was the kind of QB you and Maybe Paradis thinks about , then I might agree. This kid is a read the defense, throw the ball down the field type of QB, which means to me, lower completion percentage and high sack totals . The type of QB you guys want is the take what the defense give you and go down field when the opportunity presents itself . All I care about is that he completes 54 percent of those down field throws and that the vast majority of them either end up in a score or put the team in position where points can be attainable .
That is what Hackenberg is, and that's why State college with limited resources didn't have a losing season when he was their QB .
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Post by JStokes on Dec 15, 2016 18:18:32 GMT -5
The most MOST important inbred talent for a QB is ACCURACY. You can't fix inaccuracy. All the "tweaking" in the world can't make a .240 hitter a .330 hitter. All the coaching in the world isn't going to change him from a 54% passer in COLLEGE to a 65% passer in the NFL. But he's a nice kid. _ See, If I thought Hackenberg was the kind of QB you and Maybe Paradis thinks about , then I might agree. This kid is a read the defense, throw the ball down the field type of QB, which means to me, lower completion percentage and high sack totals . The type of QB you guys want is the take what the defense give you and go down field when the opportunity presents itself . All I care about is that he completes 54 percent of those down field throws and that the vast majority of them either end up in a score or put the team in position where points can be attainable .
That is what Hackenberg is, and that's why State college with limited resources didn't have a losing season when he was their QB .
He didn't complete 54% of his passes down field. He completed 54% of his passes because he is incredibly inaccurate all OVER the field. He can't even make the easy throws. That he can hit a throw down field once in a while won't cut it. _ |
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Post by tinstar on Dec 15, 2016 18:29:21 GMT -5
See, If I thought Hackenberg was the kind of QB you and Maybe Paradis thinks about , then I might agree. This kid is a read the defense, throw the ball down the field type of QB, which means to me, lower completion percentage and high sack totals . The type of QB you guys want is the take what the defense give you and go down field when the opportunity presents itself . All I care about is that he completes 54 percent of those down field throws and that the vast majority of them either end up in a score or put the team in position where points can be attainable .
That is what Hackenberg is, and that's why State college with limited resources didn't have a losing season when he was their QB .
He didn't complete 54% of his passes down field. He completed 54% of his passes because he is incredibly inaccurate all OVER the field. He can't even make the easy throws. That he can hit a throw down field once in a while won't cut it. _ I know how bad he was because I've been watching him for a while . I just happen to like how he plays . Maybe I'm loco . |
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Post by Hollywood Nosebleed on Dec 15, 2016 18:48:20 GMT -5
See, If I thought Hackenberg was the kind of QB you and Maybe Paradis thinks about , then I might agree. This kid is a read the defense, throw the ball down the field type of QB, which means to me, lower completion percentage and high sack totals . The type of QB you guys want is the take what the defense give you and go down field when the opportunity presents itself . All I care about is that he completes 54 percent of those down field throws and that the vast majority of them either end up in a score or put the team in position where points can be attainable .
That is what Hackenberg is, and that's why State college with limited resources didn't have a losing season when he was their QB .
He didn't complete 54% of his passes down field. He completed 54% of his passes because he is incredibly inaccurate all OVER the field. He can't even make the easy throws. That he can hit a throw down field once in a while won't cut it. _ Agreed. Last year Penn State ran a TON of WR and RB screens because their OL sucked. If you take away all those gimmies his completion percentage looks down right pitiful. Despite having a good arm he was terrible when throwing more than 10 yards in the air. |
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Post by JStokes on Dec 15, 2016 19:14:07 GMT -5
He didn't complete 54% of his passes down field. He completed 54% of his passes because he is incredibly inaccurate all OVER the field. He can't even make the easy throws. That he can hit a throw down field once in a while won't cut it. _ Agreed. Last year Penn State ran a TON of WR and RB screens because their OL sucked. If you take away all those gimmies his completion percentage looks down right pitiful. Despite having a good arm he was terrible when throwing more than 10 yards in the air. I get folks want to imagine the issues at PSU we're everything but him, not that he isn't just an incredibly inaccurate passer. But reportedly he couldn't complete passes against air in training camp. That's not a guy who is going to get "fixed". _ |
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Post by RobR on Dec 15, 2016 22:03:44 GMT -5
He didn't complete 54% of his passes down field. He completed 54% of his passes because he is incredibly inaccurate all OVER the field. He can't even make the easy throws. That he can hit a throw down field once in a while won't cut it. _ I know how bad he was because I've been watching him for a while . I just happen to like how he plays . Maybe I'm loco . The first two sentences are easily backed up by your third.  |
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Post by tinstar on Dec 16, 2016 14:28:53 GMT -5
I know how bad he was because I've been watching him for a while . I just happen to like how he plays . Maybe I'm loco . The first two sentences are easily backed up by your third. You could be on to something . I'm the guy who thinks Eli is a better QB than Peyton even thou I know Peyton is a 1st ballot HOFer and Eli's status is up for debate . I could care less what a QBs completion percentage is, as long as his team wins the game and he had a hand in the decision . Stats are for the water cooler so fans can Monday morning QB folks who do a job they will never have the chance to do .
Maybe you forgot, but " You play to win the game", not accumulate statistics .
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Post by Sonny Werblin on Dec 16, 2016 16:10:17 GMT -5
The first two sentences are easily backed up by your third. You could be on to something . I'm the guy who thinks Eli is a better QB than Peyton even thou I know Peyton is a 1st ballot HOFer and Eli's status is up for debate . I could care less what a QBs completion percentage is, as long as his team wins the game and he had a hand in the decision . Stats are for the water cooler so fans can Monday morning QB folks who do a job they will never have the chance to do .
Maybe you forgot, but " You play to win the game", not accumulate statistics .
I get this. But, then again, it is hard to lose games when your QB is completing a bunch of passes and piling up the yards, and at the same time, it is hard to win games when your QB is Ryan Fitzpatrick. |
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