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Post by Trades on Mar 15, 2017 10:23:32 GMT -5
and basic cable and basic phone service and ... We already have that, it is called Medicaid and then paying for your own "insurance" if you aren't poor. Basic cable? Ewwwww. Motivation to learn a skill and get a good job. |
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Mar 15, 2017 10:26:09 GMT -5
I blame FDR. His whole second bill of rights thing in 1945, declaring everyone has the right to a job, healthcare, and a good education. It can be argued that none of those are truly rights. The wording is tricky since he didn't us the term FREE or ACCESS TO. He wanted these things so the nation would be more secure and less susceptible to political upheaval. I think most of us like the idea of public schools (that we pay taxes for) because a citizenry with at least basic knowledge is beneficial to us all. So by extension some believe our taxes should go to at least basic healthcare. Problem being healthcare doesn't have a start and an end and the costs are never fixed. I think we are headed for 2 tiered healthcare. The poor and the not poor. Like everything else. Even moreso, he stated "The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health" How does one even define "adequate medical care"? Enough to keep people alive? We do have that today, in part thanks to Reagan and his Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. Thanks Ronnie, you socialist! |
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Mar 15, 2017 10:29:02 GMT -5
The wording is tricky since he didn't us the term FREE or ACCESS TO. He wanted these things so the nation would be more secure and less susceptible to political upheaval. I think most of us like the idea of public schools (that we pay taxes for) because a citizenry with at least basic knowledge is beneficial to us all. So by extension some believe our taxes should go to at least basic healthcare. Problem being healthcare doesn't have a start and an end and the costs are never fixed. I think we are headed for 2 tiered healthcare. The poor and the not poor. Like everything else. and basic cable and basic phone service and ... We already have that, it is called Medicaid and then paying for your own "insurance" if you aren't poor.True dat. But what about cell phones? |
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Mar 15, 2017 10:35:02 GMT -5
I blame FDR. His whole second bill of rights thing in 1945, declaring everyone has the right to a job, healthcare, and a good education. It can be argued that none of those are truly rights. The wording is tricky since he didn't us the term FREE or ACCESS TO. He wanted these things so the nation would be more secure and less susceptible to political upheaval. And thats the thing... nothing is FREE. What's free to one person simply means someone else paid for it. We're all smart, we all know that. It can be argued that healthcare is simply an economic good, the result of someone else's labors and talents, and that the government shouldn't be involved in its procurement... either a free market exchange of goods and services, or private charity stepping in to cover the gaps. |
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Post by Ff2 on Mar 15, 2017 10:42:05 GMT -5
The wording is tricky since he didn't us the term FREE or ACCESS TO. He wanted these things so the nation would be more secure and less susceptible to political upheaval. And thats the thing... nothing is FREE. What's free to one person simply means someone else paid for it. We're all smart, we all know that. It can be argued that healthcare is simply an economic good, the result of someone else's labors and talents, and that the government shouldn't be involved in its procurement... either a free market exchange of goods and services, or private charity stepping in to cover the gaps. Yes it can be argued for sure. But then the flip side is with "regular" economic goods...Charlie doesn't get a big screen TV because he's unemployed....so who gives a shit. Its different if Charlie doesn't get an operation because he's unemployed....and dies. Now some wouldn't give a shit. Some would. But healthcare is a different thing...it just is. Hey I'd love it if private charity's could cover Charlie, but he's a dick with no friends and no one likes him anyway. |
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Post by tkasper01 on Mar 15, 2017 11:59:26 GMT -5
================================================= No Kidding? How does that work, are people just refusing to pay, do they give fake names? 14,000,000 newly uninsured won't be held liable for there debts.. What a mess, Govt. should of never got in the health care providing business. No fake names needed. Just show up and get all the care you need. Walk, or be given a cab ride, home and you are done. Then they complain about their wait or their script not being ready at the outpatient Pharmacy on time. Did I mention that we feed them to if they request food. For everyone in the room. Only in America do we create a system so bad that it can be taken advantage of by people who do not even speak English. |
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Post by tkasper01 on Mar 15, 2017 12:02:37 GMT -5
I blame FDR. His whole second bill of rights thing in 1945, declaring everyone has the right to a job, healthcare, and a good education. It can be argued that none of those are truly rights. The wording is tricky since he didn't us the term FREE or ACCESS TO. He wanted these things so the nation would be more secure and less susceptible to political upheaval. I think most of us like the idea of public schools (that we pay taxes for) because a citizenry with at least basic knowledge is beneficial to us all. So by extension some believe our taxes should go to at least basic healthcare. Problem being healthcare doesn't have a start and an end and the costs are never fixed. I think we are headed for 2 tiered healthcare. The poor and the not poor. Like everything else. Never going to happen. Clinicians do not see rich or poor. They see a patient or a human in need of help. It is why most do what they do. My wife could give a rats ass if the kid she just treated for Sickle or HIV or teen pregnancy ever pays the bill. Just that they are or have a plan to get better. |
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Mar 15, 2017 13:24:17 GMT -5
================================================= No Kidding? How does that work, are people just refusing to pay, do they give fake names? 14,000,000 newly uninsured won't be held liable for there debts.. What a mess, Govt. should of never got in the health care providing business. No fake names needed. Just show up and get all the care you need. Walk, or be given a cab ride, home and you are done. Then they complain about their wait or their script not being ready at the outpatient Pharmacy on time. Did I mention that we feed them to if they request food. For everyone in the room. Only in America do we create a system so bad that it can be taken advantage of by people who do not even speak English. So i walk in, assuming i have to give my name and address? Wouldnt you just bill me? And if they dont pay, it goes to collections? |
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Mar 15, 2017 13:25:04 GMT -5
================================================= No Kidding? How does that work, are people just refusing to pay, do they give fake names? 14,000,000 newly uninsured won't be held liable for there debts.. What a mess, Govt. should of never got in the health care providing business. No fake names needed. Just show up and get all the care you need. Walk, or be given a cab ride, home and you are done. Then they complain about their wait or their script not being ready at the outpatient Pharmacy on time. Did I mention that we feed them to if they request food. For everyone in the room. Only in America do we create a system so bad that it can be taken advantage of by people who do not even speak English. That part, among others, is ridiculous. |
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Post by flushingjet on Mar 15, 2017 13:28:13 GMT -5
No fake names needed. Just show up and get all the care you need. Walk, or be given a cab ride, home and you are done. Then they complain about their wait or their script not being ready at the outpatient Pharmacy on time. Did I mention that we feed them to if they request food. For everyone in the room. Only in America do we create a system so bad that it can be taken advantage of by people who do not even speak English. So i walk in, assuming i have to give my name and address? Wouldnt you just bill me? And if they dont pay, it goes to collections? Not even as much as an IOU. The time is long past to roll back this abuse. |
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Post by BEAC0NJET on Mar 15, 2017 13:28:36 GMT -5
And thats the thing... nothing is FREE. What's free to one person simply means someone else paid for it. We're all smart, we all know that. It can be argued that healthcare is simply an economic good, the result of someone else's labors and talents, and that the government shouldn't be involved in its procurement... either a free market exchange of goods and services, or private charity stepping in to cover the gaps. Yes it can be argued for sure. But then the flip side is with "regular" economic goods...Charlie doesn't get a big screen TV because he's unemployed....so who gives a shit. Its different if Charlie doesn't get an operation because he's unemployed....and dies.
Now some wouldn't give a shit. Some would. But healthcare is a different thing...it just is.Hey I'd love it if private charity's could cover Charlie, but he's a dick with no friends and no one likes him anyway. Except that since the 80s, if Charlie shows up to the ER, they will treat him. With any of these plans, existing or proposed, people may be uninsured, or insured with deductibles they cant ever pay, rendering them for all intents and purposes, effectively uninsured, but no one is dying in the streets. |
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Post by Ff2 on Mar 15, 2017 13:40:44 GMT -5
================================================= No Kidding? How does that work, are people just refusing to pay, do they give fake names? 14,000,000 newly uninsured won't be held liable for there debts.. What a mess, Govt. should of never got in the health care providing business. No fake names needed. Just show up and get all the care you need. Walk, or be given a cab ride, home and you are done. Then they complain about their wait or their script not being ready at the outpatient Pharmacy on time. Did I mention that we feed them to if they request food. For everyone in the room. Only in America do we create a system so bad that it can be taken advantage of by people who do not even speak English. You're kidding yourself if you think its just "those" people. |
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Post by Ff2 on Mar 15, 2017 13:42:30 GMT -5
Yes it can be argued for sure. But then the flip side is with "regular" economic goods...Charlie doesn't get a big screen TV because he's unemployed....so who gives a shit. Its different if Charlie doesn't get an operation because he's unemployed....and dies.
Now some wouldn't give a shit. Some would. But healthcare is a different thing...it just is.Hey I'd love it if private charity's could cover Charlie, but he's a dick with no friends and no one likes him anyway. Except that since the 80s, if Charlie shows up to the ER, they will treat him. With any of these plans, existing or proposed, people may be uninsured, or insured with deductibles they cant ever pay, rendering them for all intents and purposes, effectively uninsured, but no one is dying in the streets. Yes that what Im saying about healthcare not being a commodity. |
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Post by Ff2 on Mar 15, 2017 13:43:45 GMT -5
The wording is tricky since he didn't us the term FREE or ACCESS TO. He wanted these things so the nation would be more secure and less susceptible to political upheaval. I think most of us like the idea of public schools (that we pay taxes for) because a citizenry with at least basic knowledge is beneficial to us all. So by extension some believe our taxes should go to at least basic healthcare. Problem being healthcare doesn't have a start and an end and the costs are never fixed. I think we are headed for 2 tiered healthcare. The poor and the not poor. Like everything else. Never going to happen. Clinicians do not see rich or poor. They see a patient or a human in need of help. It is why most do what they do. My wife could give a rats ass if the kid she just treated for Sickle or HIV or teen pregnancy ever pays the bill. Just that they are or have a plan to get better. They will never get to your wife...those on lower tier will wait longer and get sub-standard care. |
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Post by flushingjet on Mar 15, 2017 13:54:38 GMT -5
No fake names needed. Just show up and get all the care you need. Walk, or be given a cab ride, home and you are done. Then they complain about their wait or their script not being ready at the outpatient Pharmacy on time. Did I mention that we feed them to if they request food. For everyone in the room. Only in America do we create a system so bad that it can be taken advantage of by people who do not even speak English. You're kidding yourself if you think its just "those" people. You're kidding yourself if you think a majority of those people pay into our society anything close to a single digit percentage of what they take out. Why don't those people want to do the fair legal and moral thing instead of being thieves and parasites? |
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