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Post by DowNY on Feb 24, 2015 14:36:58 GMT -5
TEN can't come out of the closet fast enough. The sooner they admit to liking Mariota (which they will), the sooner we can end these fruitless discussion about drafting either of these two. Finding the savior at QB is not on the 2015 NY Jets agenda. You realize that we need a QB in order to go to the Super Bowl? Doesn't have to be an all-pro, but someone decent. Geno isn't the answer. You do realize we're not going to the Super Bowl next season right? Especially not with a rookie QB from this class. Better off waiting. I'd throw a 4th at the Rams for Bradford and see what's up with that. Just to screw Rex's pursuit of him. With that said. If one of these guys are at #6 then you take them.
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Post by Jet Nut Sauce on Feb 24, 2015 14:49:00 GMT -5
yeah i agree. i think it'd be foolish not to draft one of the last 2 Heisman winners. Nothing against you personally, but I hate this Heisman winner argument more than any other when saying you have to take this guy. Since when does winning a Heisman mean the player has a better chance of succeeding in the NFL? Also, how many Heisman winners are successful in the NFL vs. how many are not? Heisman winners since 2000: 2014 Marcus Mariota Oregon QB 2013 Jameis Winston Florida State QB 2012 Johnny Manziel Texas A&M QB 2011 Robert Griffin III Baylor QB 2010 Cameron Newton Auburn QB 2009 Mark Ingram Alabama RB 2008 Sam Bradford Oklahoma QB 2007 Tim Tebow Florida QB 2006 Troy Smith Ohio State QB 2005 Reggie Bush Southern California RB 2004 Matt Leinart Southern California QB 2003 IJason White Oklahoma QB 2002 Carson Palmer Southern California QB 2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB 2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB Notice the QBs that most people consider good to great that didn't win a Heisman trophy... Luck, Wilson, Rodgers, Rivers, Eli, Rapelisberger, Brees, SparkleSparkleBrady, Mr. Forehead (if you go back to 1998) The Jets drafted the Heisman winning QB once. Then drafted some guy named Namath who didn't win it
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Post by PK on Feb 24, 2015 14:54:49 GMT -5
You realize that we need a QB in order to go to the Super Bowl? Doesn't have to be an all-pro, but someone decent. Geno isn't the answer. You do realize we're not going to the Super Bowl next season right? Especially not with a rookie QB from this class. Better off waiting. I'd throw a 4th at the Rams for Bradford and see what's up with that. Just to screw Rex's pursuit of him. With that said. If one of these guys are at #6 then you take them. So...out of the 32 teams, which ones are planning on trying to make it to the Superbowl? How does not planning on trying to win translate to coaching? How soon in training camp does the coach announce to the team that they suck and will be watching the playoffs from home?
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Post by southside on Feb 24, 2015 14:56:06 GMT -5
Did everyone forget that Winston threw 18 interceptions last season? Yeah.... no thanks. I couldn't cherry pick a better bust stat if I tried. He's a turnover machine. You talk about the anticipation.... that's the biggest load of shit I've ever heard. Of course this is not something you want to see, but if you look at his film, and see what analysts are saying, they give reasons why this stat really should be looked at more thoroughly. Of course winston who is in a pro style offense will throw more ints than mariota whose in a spread. Receivers in spread are that much more open and the window to throw in is much larger leaving more room for error. Experts constantly cite Winston with great accuracy, with a specialty in tight throws. He's extremely pro ready and those interceptions while a flag, don't deter me at all. Take this with a grain of salt, because of who it is, but mcshay went on to say he's the second best qb prospect he's seen in the past 10 years, behind only to luck. He's got the makeup of a potential great quarterback. I have actually a lot more concerns with mariota, I don't think he's ready and think it could some time to develop him. His ability to run an offense under center is a big a flag and also if he can make all the nfl throws. Totally understandable. However, the INT's should have been even more but he was lucky the defenders dropped easy INTs. I'm not even talking about a comparison. I'm just saying I want nothing to do with this kid and I'm hoping he goes #1 overall because while he may have the physical tools that these scouts are drooling over (McShay saying he makes throwing look easy) they keep wanting to ignore the most important part of being a QB: decision making. And this kid is riddled with making poor decisions on and off the field. I did hear Todd, Todd, Todd (lol that Frank Caliendo bit just cracks me up) talking about Winston but to me it made him sound like he was more interested in validating his opinion of Winston from a year ago than looking at the whole picture. I get that Mariota isn't "pro ready" while Winston is more "pro ready". But the interceptions along with the off the field stuff makes this kid a HUGE RISK for the Jets. We can not, CAN NOT, fuck this pick up like we have with our last high picks. And Winston might be the biggest name but people are still wanting to view him as this undefeated national championship QB and not what he showed in 2014 on the field. He has major holes in his game which were easily picked apart once he played better competition. I mean, 18 interception in 14 games is extremely alarming. You could argue, I suppose, that he's been distracted with all this off the field stuff this season but to me that's just not what I want to see when drafting a QB. Whatever team that drafts him will be laughed at. And if McShay is seriously thinking Winston is a better QB prospect than Cam Newton was coming out then he's crazy.
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Post by JetBidi on Feb 24, 2015 14:59:16 GMT -5
You realize that we need a QB in order to go to the Super Bowl? Doesn't have to be an all-pro, but someone decent. Geno isn't the answer. Anyone who thinks the Jets should be making personel decisions with the notion of going to the Super Bowl in 2015 - is a hot guy I'd like to blow. Instead of wasting time and resources on searching for a white buffalo next year, we can shore up the team around the quarterback position. How do you think that schlep Sanchez made it to two AFCCGs? Cause the roster was jacked. We need to go back to doing that, instead of being an outtake on a TLC's "chasing waterfalls". Off topic... I found the white buffalo
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Post by southside on Feb 24, 2015 15:05:37 GMT -5
I mean, the only thing that McShay is standing on is the fact that Winston showed "anticipation" in throwing to spots. Ok, that's great. He's also threw it to the other team 18 times and single handedly tried to kill FSU's season by playing terrible against mediocre talent and needing last second heroics in order to keep on winning. There are people that will argue he's the best available QB in the draft. That's fine. He's going to suck in the NFL and that's all that matters to me. And I'm actually more convinced that a relatively unknown name QB is probably going to have a better pro career than both Mariota and Winston from this draft. Not exactly setting the world on fire with that prediction, I'm just not sold on any of these guys and especially not that high. I would feel better about Mariota at 6. I won't lie about that... I'm actually hoping we take him there. However, his play does concern me as well in those big game spots.
Just give me the best available football player. We have so many holes on this team that we don't need to be reaching again. And if MacDaddy thinks that's Winston or Mariota or whoever else then I'm just gonna go ahead and roll with it because from all accounts he's one of the best talent evaluators in the business and I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt for right now. But I'm on record, I watched those interceptions ... mainly out of spite and ammo against Winston ... those were really bad decisions. They weren't the fault of a WR running a wrong route or getting a tipped ball.
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Post by Jet Nut Sauce on Feb 24, 2015 15:17:09 GMT -5
Don't want Winston at all. à la SAR, I've never watched him play, but just listening to his interviews he doesn't come off as a Pro's Pro. And yet it's being reported that execs who sat with him think he's got the best FB mind since Manning. He's going to be a player, has every tool to succeed
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Post by Jet Nut Sauce on Feb 24, 2015 15:23:14 GMT -5
I mean, the only thing that McShay is standing on is the fact that Winston showed "anticipation" in throwing to spots. Ok, that's great. He's also threw it to the other team 18 times and single handedly tried to kill FSU's season by playing terrible against mediocre talent and needing last second heroics in order to keep on winning. There are people that will argue he's the best available QB in the draft. That's fine. He's going to suck in the NFL and that's all that matters to me. And I'm actually more convinced that a relatively unknown name QB is probably going to have a better pro career than both Mariota and Winston from this draft. Not exactly setting the world on fire with that prediction, I'm just not sold on any of these guys and especially not that high. I would feel better about Mariota at 6. I won't lie about that... I'm actually hoping we take him there. However, his play does concern me as well in those big game spots. Just give me the best available football player. We have so many holes on this team that we don't need to be reaching again. And if MacDaddy thinks that's Winston or Mariota or whoever else then I'm just gonna go ahead and roll with it because from all accounts he's one of the best talent evaluators in the business and I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt for right now. But I'm on record, I watched those interceptions ... mainly out of spite and ammo against Winston ... those were really bad decisions. They weren't the fault of a WR running a wrong route or getting a tipped ball. He also played a tough schedule, had no real WRs this past season and an erratic at best running game. He threw into more tight coverage than a Mariota, throwing before guys were open not after. He was the whole team and got them to the playoffs as one of the final 4 with one comeback after another. His football IQ is off the charts and to a man he was credited with leading FSU both seasons. He also called plays in the huddle and audibled as needed unlike most. He understands the game more than most who have come out of college. Ever
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Post by southside on Feb 24, 2015 15:26:30 GMT -5
I mean, the only thing that McShay is standing on is the fact that Winston showed "anticipation" in throwing to spots. Ok, that's great. He's also threw it to the other team 18 times and single handedly tried to kill FSU's season by playing terrible against mediocre talent and needing last second heroics in order to keep on winning. There are people that will argue he's the best available QB in the draft. That's fine. He's going to suck in the NFL and that's all that matters to me. And I'm actually more convinced that a relatively unknown name QB is probably going to have a better pro career than both Mariota and Winston from this draft. Not exactly setting the world on fire with that prediction, I'm just not sold on any of these guys and especially not that high. I would feel better about Mariota at 6. I won't lie about that... I'm actually hoping we take him there. However, his play does concern me as well in those big game spots. Just give me the best available football player. We have so many holes on this team that we don't need to be reaching again. And if MacDaddy thinks that's Winston or Mariota or whoever else then I'm just gonna go ahead and roll with it because from all accounts he's one of the best talent evaluators in the business and I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt for right now. But I'm on record, I watched those interceptions ... mainly out of spite and ammo against Winston ... those were really bad decisions. They weren't the fault of a WR running a wrong route or getting a tipped ball. He also played a tough schedule, had no real WRs this past season and an erratic at best running game. He threw into more tight coverage than a Mariota, throwing before guys were open not after. He was the whole team and got them to the playoffs as one of the final 4 with one comeback after another. His football IQ is off the charts and to a man he was credited with leading FSU both seasons And he threw 28 INTs in two seasons.
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Post by Jet Nut Sauce on Feb 24, 2015 15:34:04 GMT -5
He also played a tough schedule, had no real WRs this past season and an erratic at best running game. He threw into more tight coverage than a Mariota, throwing before guys were open not after. He was the whole team and got them to the playoffs as one of the final 4 with one comeback after another. His football IQ is off the charts and to a man he was credited with leading FSU both seasons And he threw 28 INTs in two seasons. And won 1 national championship, was in the finals for another and only lost once, his last game, along with winning the Heisman trophy for bonus points. He's going to be a star unless he fucks it up, not because he can't
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Post by southside on Feb 24, 2015 15:59:09 GMT -5
And he threw 28 INTs in two seasons. And won 1 national championship, was in the finals for another and only lost once, his last game, along with winning the Heisman trophy for bonus points. He's going to be a star unless he fucks it up, not because he can't Matt Leinart won 2 NCAA championships and barely lost any games. So did Tim Tebow. I really don't understand why people make this argument for Winston.
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Post by jcappy on Feb 24, 2015 16:03:16 GMT -5
And won 1 national championship, was in the finals for another and only lost once, his last game, along with winning the Heisman trophy for bonus points. He's going to be a star unless he fucks it up, not because he can't Matt Leinart won 2 NCAA championships and barely lost any games. So did Tim Tebow. I really don't understand why people make this argument for Winston. And they're all available right now! Sign all three of these beasts!!!!
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Post by southside on Feb 24, 2015 16:42:56 GMT -5
I will say that down field accuracy is a big deal for me as well. I'm tired of seeing our QBs routinely miss down field passes that NFL QBs should make. Mariota has shown poor down field accuracy. Obviously those are things that can be fixed. You're never getting a completed product out of college. Even the best need some degree of development. Here's a good analysis, I believe, on Winston's 2014 season. bleacherreport.com/articles/2368181-uncertainty-surrounding-jameis-winston-would-make-him-rare-no-1-overall-pickI think the line about 7 teams being interested in Josh McCown despite failing as a starter on the worst team in the NFL shows how bad the QB situation in the NFL is right now. That's going to cause these guys to go higher than they should. I'd rather go with the approach that Paradis suggested, build up the team so that even a shitty QB like Sanchez can win with it. In some part I believe that Seattle has done that with Russell Wilson. Granted, he's a much better player than Sanchez. But he's not exactly the elite of the NFL either. We need to rebuild the offensive line for sure. We need a top tier WR. We need two CBs. I see us getting CBs in the free agency, hopefully WR with the first pick (Cooper PLEASE! but that Kevin White kid is special too), and OLine in the early draft and free agency.
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Post by Jet Nut Sauce on Feb 24, 2015 16:51:03 GMT -5
And won 1 national championship, was in the finals for another and only lost once, his last game, along with winning the Heisman trophy for bonus points. He's going to be a star unless he fucks it up, not because he can't Matt Leinart won 2 NCAA championships and barely lost any games. So did Tim Tebow. I really don't understand why people make this argument for Winston. And no one thinks guys like Tebow are comparable to Winston. Most thought he wouldn't be an NFL QBS. And even still your logic is Tebow won and went on to suck therefore Winston will suck? Really? People argue for Winston because of how he looks. Anyone with eyes knows his talents translate to the NFL. Did you make this argument against Luck and Mr. Forehead?
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Post by southside on Feb 24, 2015 17:01:01 GMT -5
Matt Leinart won 2 NCAA championships and barely lost any games. So did Tim Tebow. I really don't understand why people make this argument for Winston. And no one thinks guys like Tebow are comparable to Winston. Most thought he wouldn't be an NFL QBS. And even still your logic is Tebow won and went on to suck therefore Winston will suck? Really? People argue for Winston because of how he looks. Anyone with eyes knows his talents translate to the NFL. Did you make this argument against Luck and Mr. Forehead? I think just as you are making the comment that he's a winner, I'm showing that it doesn't mean he's any good. Football is the ultimate team game. Winning never falls on one player's shoulders. I'm not making any comparisons nor am I saying that because he won he will win. I think you're the one saying because he's a winner that means he'll be good. But I'm not trying to sit here and fight about it either. I don't like the kid. I don't think he looks like a good QB either. I see a guy that has bad habits with his throwing mechanics and a guy that made really terrible decisions forcing the football into triple coverage and throwing INTs like they were going out of style. He was getting away with it by the skin of his teeth all season as pertains wins/losses. But his play was really shitty. I don't see how anyone looks at that and says, "That's an NFL QB." And I'll agree that just because Mariota only threw a handful of picks and a bunch of TDs doesn't mean he's going to be a good NFL QB either. Many of his passes were dink and dunks, screens, and slants that went for big yardage. He was actually pretty bad with his passes over 15 yards which surprised me when I read about it. Either way, we're not going to be in a position to make that mistake so I'm not that worried about it.
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