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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 10:57:21 GMT -5
I really don't understand how anyone could tell another poster they shouldn't be worried about him throwing 18 ints this year. Nor do I understand berating someone who objectively watched the kid struggle all season, playing terrible for long stretches of the game to eek out last second wins on a weekly basis.... And doesn't jump on the, "He's the best prospect in 10 years besides Luck" line of bullshit. The kid had a terrible season. Just admit it because he did. If that doesn't bother you then that's great. To try and thinly call someone a racist because Winston threw a college career worth of interceptions in one season is fucking gay. That whole thug comment, he should have manned up and said what he really meant by insinuating that I think Winston is a big lipped negro who should be sitting on the back of the bus because I'm some scared white boy who can't stand a black guy playing the white man's position. Is that thug enough for you Jet Nut? Fucking douchebag. Not for nothing but you cited McShay as being someone who was concerned with the INTs, but then he was actually the one who made the comment that he thinks Winston is the best QB prospect in last 10 years since Luck. So how concerned can he really be about the INTs if he thinks he is that good of a prospect? Doesn't really support your argument much. Yeah I know. Because he's a hype machine man. That's what they do. I said even the guy that thinks he's got the best potential is concerned about the INTs. They aren't ignoring it.
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Post by Hotman on Feb 26, 2015 10:57:47 GMT -5
I really don't understand how anyone could tell another poster they shouldn't be worried about him throwing 18 ints this year. Nor do I understand berating someone who objectively watched the kid struggle all season, playing terrible for long stretches of the game to eek out last second wins on a weekly basis.... And doesn't jump on the, "He's the best prospect in 10 years besides Luck" line of bullshit. The kid had a terrible season. Just admit it because he did. If that doesn't bother you then that's great. To try and thinly call someone a racist because Winston threw a college career worth of interceptions in one season is fucking gay. That whole thug comment, he should have manned up and said what he really meant by insinuating that I think Winston is a big lipped negro who should be sitting on the back of the bus because I'm some scared white boy who can't stand a black guy playing the white man's position. Is that thug enough for you Jet Nut? Fucking douchebag. LMAO... These clowns all on Winston's nuts are the same as the Jonny Soccer fans before them, and the Mark Sanchez fans before them, and the Matt Leinart fans before them and the Tebow fans and on and on and on. He's gonna be a fuckin bust just like Mariota and I'll be thrilled if neither comes anywhere near the Jets.
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Post by nolenation on Feb 26, 2015 10:59:44 GMT -5
If anybody watched FSU games last year, they would know that the defense sucked and consistently put FSU in a hole by the second half. Winston won most of their games from behind with a largely rookie receiving corps. When you're pushing to make plays, 17 interceptions are going to happen.
Not to mention he was playing against tough defenses for a good part of the year. Louisville, Miami, UF just to name a few.
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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 11:01:22 GMT -5
That's a fucking lie. Winston played terrible in the first half all season long.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Feb 26, 2015 11:03:23 GMT -5
Not for nothing but you cited McShay as being someone who was concerned with the INTs, but then he was actually the one who made the comment that he thinks Winston is the best QB prospect in last 10 years since Luck. So how concerned can he really be about the INTs if he thinks he is that good of a prospect? Doesn't really support your argument much. Yeah I know. Because he's a hype machine man. That's what they do. I said even the guy that thinks he's got the best potential is concerned about the INTs. They aren't ignoring it. I never said they are ignoring it, I stated they don't think it's as much of an issue as some fans think they are. You are saying he will be a bust in the NFL because he threw some INTs in college, that's a far cry from what the scouts and coaches are saying.
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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 11:04:02 GMT -5
I don't even give a shit. He threw 18 fucking interceptions in 14 games this season. He did it ALL YEAR LONG. You could watch a game at any point of the season and watch him throw them. Sometimes more than one. Don't sit here and tell lies to credit the player.
You can be a Winston fan and admit that he had a bad season. It's ok.
And it doesn't make you a racist because you think he sucks for throwing a shit ton of interceptions and also being a petulant moron.
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Post by nolenation on Feb 26, 2015 11:07:10 GMT -5
Winston definitely struggled in the first part of the year while getting acclimated to new receivers. The loss of Kelvin Benjamin was HUGE. FSU was simply unable to replicate his presence last season. That dude just straight up destroyed cornerbacks and was a mistmatch nightmare in 2013. Winston's best threat in 2014, Rashad Greene, was being double teamed on almost every play until Dalvin Cook and Ermon Lane started to emerge halfway through the year. Until then, Winston has to force the ball on defenses that knew he was going to pass to either of Greene or O'Leary 90% of the time.
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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 11:13:55 GMT -5
Yeah I know. Because he's a hype machine man. That's what they do. I said even the guy that thinks he's got the best potential is concerned about the INTs. They aren't ignoring it. I never said they are ignoring it, I stated they don't think it's as much of an issue as some fans think they are. You are saying he will be a bust in the NFL because he threw some INTs in college, that's a far cry from what the scouts and coaches are saying. That's fine. I can understand that. I just don't see how you can tell someone they are wrong for being concerned about drafting another QB that literally just came off an 18 interception COLLEGE season. That's a terrible season in the NFL. To do it in a lesser league where you should be dominating is a red flag. And to do that in 14 games is frightening, especially when people are trying to tell you he's some great QB prospect. When in reality the QBs coming out of the draft for the better part of a decade have been pretty terrible. We have Geno. He also throws interceptions. Mark Sanchez did it at pretty much the same frequency. We know that it lost us games. Why the hell would you tell someone not to be concerned about drafting a college QB who just threw 18 of them in 14 games. I don't give a shit if Joe Montana was coming out this year, if he threw 18 interceptions I'd suggest the opinion that I don't believe he has the qualities to be a winning QB in the NFL. I get that there are exceptions to the rule. You're essentially trying to convince me to bet that Jameis is one of them. I'm not willing to do that given the odds and how I watch him play the game. And I haven't even gotten into the fact that he has baseball pitcher's wear and tear on his shoulder nor that his delivery is elongated because of those mechanics.
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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 11:26:13 GMT -5
Winston definitely struggled in the first part of the year while getting acclimated to new receivers. The loss of Kelvin Benjamin was HUGE. FSU was simply unable to replicate his presence last season. That dude just straight up destroyed cornerbacks and was a mistmatch nightmare in 2013. Winston's best threat in 2014, Rashad Greene, was being double teamed on almost every play until Dalvin Cook and Ermon Lane started to emerge halfway through the year. Until then, Winston has to force the ball on defenses that knew he was going to pass to either of Greene or O'Leary 90% of the time. Ok but how many top college QB prospects also got to throw to a WR who tears up the NFL? Even more so, how many QBs in the NFL get to throw to receivers that are tearing it up? It shouldn't be an excuse. But I will give you that one, his supporting cast wasn't as good. Here are some other red flags that I haven't even brought up: 1.) From the sounds of it, in the offseason Winston decided that instead of training for football and taking QBing seriously he decided to play baseball. It's already being reported that he has signs of shoulder issues. Might not have affected his combine performance but it doesn't mean that it isn't there and that will come out when you're playing 16 games in the regular season of the NFL. He should have been resting instead of pitching which is terrible on your arm. 2.) Added more controversy this season which further showed his lack of maturity and decision making. If you're asking me why I think he's gonna suck it's not just the interceptions, although I pick those so I don't have to talk about other things that aren't directly impacting games. I think he should have stayed in school another season but what does it matter if he's going to be the #1 overall pick anyway? I get that he showed he can play in a pro style offense. He also took the guess work out of it and revealed that he is going to be prone to throwing a lot of interceptions at the next level too. What type of team do you think he's going to walk into? He'll be labeled a bust. And people will give the same excuses, "Tampa Bay [insert other shitty team] has no talent around him. The defense is terrible. That coach is a moron." It's my opinion that with a player like that, with those kind of questions being asked already of him, you go in a different direction. Which is why I want the Jets to draft a WR and forget about this QB class.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Feb 26, 2015 11:35:08 GMT -5
I never said they are ignoring it, I stated they don't think it's as much of an issue as some fans think they are. You are saying he will be a bust in the NFL because he threw some INTs in college, that's a far cry from what the scouts and coaches are saying. That's fine. I can understand that. I just don't see how you can tell someone they are wrong for being concerned about drafting another QB that literally just came off an 18 interception COLLEGE season. That's a terrible season in the NFL. To do it in a lesser league where you should be dominating is a red flag. And to do that in 14 games is frightening, especially when people are trying to tell you he's some great QB prospect. When in reality the QBs coming out of the draft for the better part of a decade have been pretty terrible. We have Geno. He also throws interceptions. Mark Sanchez did it at pretty much the same frequency. We know that it lost us games. Why the hell would you tell someone not to be concerned about drafting a college QB who just threw 18 of them in 14 games. I don't give a shit if Joe Montana was coming out this year, if he threw 18 interceptions I'd suggest the opinion that I don't believe he has the qualities to be a winning QB in the NFL. I get that there are exceptions to the rule. You're essentially trying to convince me to bet that Jameis is one of them. I'm not willing to do that given the odds and how I watch him play the game. And I haven't even gotten into the fact that he has baseball pitcher's wear and tear on his shoulder nor that his delivery is elongated because of those mechanics. So are you saying Winston is a finished product at the age of 20? You seem to be evaluating him as if he doesn't have any room or ability to grow. As far as his delivery goes, it's not slow. He varies it some, but his release is not going to cause him problems in the NFL. In fact he has room to clean up his snap to release times by eliminating his hop that he takes at the top of his drop and by not letting his weight get too far behind him while making his drop.
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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 11:48:20 GMT -5
That's fine. I can understand that. I just don't see how you can tell someone they are wrong for being concerned about drafting another QB that literally just came off an 18 interception COLLEGE season. That's a terrible season in the NFL. To do it in a lesser league where you should be dominating is a red flag. And to do that in 14 games is frightening, especially when people are trying to tell you he's some great QB prospect. When in reality the QBs coming out of the draft for the better part of a decade have been pretty terrible. We have Geno. He also throws interceptions. Mark Sanchez did it at pretty much the same frequency. We know that it lost us games. Why the hell would you tell someone not to be concerned about drafting a college QB who just threw 18 of them in 14 games. I don't give a shit if Joe Montana was coming out this year, if he threw 18 interceptions I'd suggest the opinion that I don't believe he has the qualities to be a winning QB in the NFL. I get that there are exceptions to the rule. You're essentially trying to convince me to bet that Jameis is one of them. I'm not willing to do that given the odds and how I watch him play the game. And I haven't even gotten into the fact that he has baseball pitcher's wear and tear on his shoulder nor that his delivery is elongated because of those mechanics. So are you saying Winston is a finished product at the age of 20? You seem to be evaluating him as if he doesn't have any room or ability to grow. As far as his delivery goes, it's not slow. He varies it some, but his release is not going to cause him problems in the NFL. In fact he has room to clean up his snap to release times by eliminating his hop that he takes at the top of his drop and by not letting his weight get too far behind him while making his drop. My opinion is that this kid isn't the second coming of Donny Marino. The fact that people think he's above concern/criticism is odd. You said it yourself, he isn't a finished product. He's far from it. That's why I don't think he's going to step into the league and tear it up like people are shoving down your face. Making a comment that he's the best QB besides Luck to come out in 10 years is a weak ass attempt by McShay to make everyone think he knows what the fuck he's talking about. He stopped at 10 years because exactly 10 years ago Aaron Rodgers was in that draft. And he didn't even have the same glowing things to say about Rodgers so he's clearly full of shit with that comment.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Feb 26, 2015 12:04:56 GMT -5
So are you saying Winston is a finished product at the age of 20? You seem to be evaluating him as if he doesn't have any room or ability to grow. As far as his delivery goes, it's not slow. He varies it some, but his release is not going to cause him problems in the NFL. In fact he has room to clean up his snap to release times by eliminating his hop that he takes at the top of his drop and by not letting his weight get too far behind him while making his drop. My opinion is that this kid isn't the second coming of Donny Marino. The fact that people think he's above concern/criticism is odd. You said it yourself, he isn't a finished product. He's far from it. That's why I don't think he's going to step into the league and tear it up like people are shoving down your face. Making a comment that he's the best QB besides Luck to come out in 10 years is a weak ass attempt by McShay to make everyone think he knows what the fuck he's talking about. He stopped at 10 years because exactly 10 years ago Aaron Rodgers was in that draft. And he didn't even have the same glowing things to say about Rodgers so he's clearly full of shit with that comment. I've never said he was Dan Marino, but there is a big gap between Marino and Jamarcus Russell. No QB is ever a finished product coming out of college, they all have to work on things in their game to be more effective in the NFL, some more than others. There is no denying that Winston has a bunch of skills that translate into being a good NFL QB. How many INTs he threw in college really doesn't make or break him, if that were the case then Geno Smith should be a pro bowl QB because he only threw 6 INTs in his last season at WVU.
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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 12:10:14 GMT -5
My opinion is that this kid isn't the second coming of Donny Marino. The fact that people think he's above concern/criticism is odd. You said it yourself, he isn't a finished product. He's far from it. That's why I don't think he's going to step into the league and tear it up like people are shoving down your face. Making a comment that he's the best QB besides Luck to come out in 10 years is a weak ass attempt by McShay to make everyone think he knows what the fuck he's talking about. He stopped at 10 years because exactly 10 years ago Aaron Rodgers was in that draft. And he didn't even have the same glowing things to say about Rodgers so he's clearly full of shit with that comment. I've never said he was Dan Marino, but there is a big gap between Marino and Jamarcus Russell. No QB is ever a finished product coming out of college, they all have to work on things in their game to be more effective in the NFL, some more than others. There is no denying that Winston has a bunch of skills that translate into being a good NFL QB. How many INTs he threw in college really doesn't make or break him, if that were the case then Geno Smith should be a pro bowl QB because he only threw 6 INTs in his last season at WVU. See and this is where I agree but you guys are bringing this into a different field: 1. I don't believe throwing lower interceptions equals throwing lower interceptions in the NFL. 2. I do think that throwing a lot of interceptions in college means you have a decision making problem which isn't going to vanish in the NFL.
One doesn't equal the other. While it doesn't mean much throwing smaller number of interceptions in college, I think it means a lot if you threw a bunch of them. It doesn't make or break you I suppose but that's a major red flag. Especially when the interceptions were Brett Favre-esque. He was forcing the football into windows that he shouldn't have and didn't need to. And he did it all season long to the tune of 18. I also didn't like how he behaved with his coaches either. This kid has spoiled athlete characteristics in abundance. I wouldn't touch him. The risk is way too high.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Feb 26, 2015 12:24:49 GMT -5
I've never said he was Dan Marino, but there is a big gap between Marino and Jamarcus Russell. No QB is ever a finished product coming out of college, they all have to work on things in their game to be more effective in the NFL, some more than others. There is no denying that Winston has a bunch of skills that translate into being a good NFL QB. How many INTs he threw in college really doesn't make or break him, if that were the case then Geno Smith should be a pro bowl QB because he only threw 6 INTs in his last season at WVU. See and this is where I agree but you guys are bringing this into a different field: 1. I don't believe throwing lower interceptions equals throwing lower interceptions in the NFL. 2. I do think that throwing a lot of interceptions in college means you have a decision making problem which isn't going to vanish in the NFL.
One doesn't equal the other. While it doesn't mean much throwing smaller number of interceptions in college, I think it means a lot if you threw a bunch of them. It doesn't make or break you I suppose but that's a major red flag. Especially when the interceptions were Brett Favre-esque. He was forcing the football into windows that he shouldn't have and didn't need to. And he did it all season long to the tune of 18. I also didn't like how he behaved with his coaches either. This kid has spoiled athlete characteristics in abundance. I wouldn't touch him. The risk is way too high. Actually the Favre comparison kind of proves the point why a lot of INTs do not tell the whole story. Favre threw a lot of INTs, but he also made up for them by making big plays, very similar to Winston at FSU. I think Jet fans have become too conditioned to think that all INTs are bad and you need to have a QB that has 4:1 TD/INT ratio. Again, to say that a 20 year old kids decision making process won't or can't change is pretty crazy.
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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 12:36:27 GMT -5
See and this is where I agree but you guys are bringing this into a different field: 1. I don't believe throwing lower interceptions equals throwing lower interceptions in the NFL. 2. I do think that throwing a lot of interceptions in college means you have a decision making problem which isn't going to vanish in the NFL.
One doesn't equal the other. While it doesn't mean much throwing smaller number of interceptions in college, I think it means a lot if you threw a bunch of them. It doesn't make or break you I suppose but that's a major red flag. Especially when the interceptions were Brett Favre-esque. He was forcing the football into windows that he shouldn't have and didn't need to. And he did it all season long to the tune of 18. I also didn't like how he behaved with his coaches either. This kid has spoiled athlete characteristics in abundance. I wouldn't touch him. The risk is way too high. Actually the Favre comparison kind of proves the point why a lot of INTs do not tell the whole story. Favre threw a lot of INTs, but he also made up for them by making big plays, very similar to Winston at FSU. I think Jet fans have become too conditioned to think that all INTs are bad and you need to have a QB that has 4:1 TD/INT ratio. Again, to say that a 20 year old kids decision making process won't or can't change is pretty crazy. I'm sure he he'll get that opportunity. I hope it isn't with the Jets. We need a 100% real contributor and difference maker with that #6 pick.
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