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Post by jett on Feb 25, 2015 15:13:16 GMT -5
And won 1 national championship, was in the finals for another and only lost once, his last game, along with winning the Heisman trophy for bonus points. He's going to be a star unless he fucks it up, not because he can't Matt Leinart won 2 NCAA championships and barely lost any games. So did Tim Tebow. I really don't understand why people make this argument for Winston. I think this to is an invalid argument. Winston is not Tim Tebow, or leinart, or whoever. They are their own person. Tebow is Tebow and winston is winston. I look at Florida States team, great defense and an average offense at best. Tough schedule, bad receivers, and yet he only lost 1 game (albeit a national championship but that wasn't his fault his team did him no favors). He played injured for most of the season. I think he's a phenomenal talent. Ben Roethlisberger comes to mind.
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Post by Jet Nut Sauce on Feb 25, 2015 15:46:10 GMT -5
Matt Leinart won 2 NCAA championships and barely lost any games. So did Tim Tebow. I really don't understand why people make this argument for Winston. I think this to is an invalid argument. Winston is not Tim Tebow, or leinart, or whoever. They are their own person. Tebow is Tebow and winston is winston. I look at Florida States team, great defense and an average offense at best. Tough schedule, bad receivers, and yet he only lost 1 game (albeit a national championship but that wasn't his fault his team did him no favors). He played injured for most of the season. I think he's a phenomenal talent. Ben Roethlisberger comes to mind. Agreed. No offense to anyone but if you're making a case of comparing these QBs, especially Tebow you either didn't watch any of their college careers or you don't have a clue. Tebow and Winston are as dissimilar as you can possibly be. Winston will be a star on the next level. It's not hype, no one anywhere thinks he over hyped. I hope we're lucky enough to get him
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Post by southside on Feb 25, 2015 17:52:55 GMT -5
I think this to is an invalid argument. Winston is not Tim Tebow, or leinart, or whoever. They are their own person. Tebow is Tebow and winston is winston. I look at Florida States team, great defense and an average offense at best. Tough schedule, bad receivers, and yet he only lost 1 game (albeit a national championship but that wasn't his fault his team did him no favors). He played injured for most of the season. I think he's a phenomenal talent. Ben Roethlisberger comes to mind. Agreed. No offense to anyone but if you're making a case of comparing these QBs, especially Tebow you either didn't watch any of their college careers or you don't have a clue. Tebow and Winston are as dissimilar as you can possibly be. Winston will be a star on the next level. It's not hype, no one anywhere thinks he over hyped. I hope we're lucky enough to get him Yeah, he'll be a star for being a bust. There's not way in hell he's a better QB prospect than Cam Newton was either. This is all bullshit hype because that's the internet world we live in where everyone is the best thing to ever happen all the time. Constant hyperbole. He throws way too many fucking interceptions to be good. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. And if he wasn't on a great team, yes FSU is a great talented team with major speed playing in a shitty conference, he'd have lost a lot more games.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Feb 25, 2015 19:02:25 GMT -5
Agreed. No offense to anyone but if you're making a case of comparing these QBs, especially Tebow you either didn't watch any of their college careers or you don't have a clue. Tebow and Winston are as dissimilar as you can possibly be. Winston will be a star on the next level. It's not hype, no one anywhere thinks he over hyped. I hope we're lucky enough to get him Yeah, he'll be a star for being a bust. There's not way in hell he's a better QB prospect than Cam Newton was either. This is all bullshit hype because that's the internet world we live in where everyone is the best thing to ever happen all the time. Constant hyperbole. He throws way too many fucking interceptions to be good. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. And if he wasn't on a great team, yes FSU is a great talented team with major speed playing in a shitty conference, he'd have lost a lot more games. So the INTs he threw in college doom him from being a successful QB in the NFL? The NFL scouts and coaches have less issue with his INTs than most fans do. That's because they realize what they are looking at. If all you look at is a stat sheet, I can see why you would think the way you do. To say Winston is Internet hype and constant hyperbole is actually funny.
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Post by southside on Feb 25, 2015 20:51:37 GMT -5
Yeah, he'll be a star for being a bust. There's not way in hell he's a better QB prospect than Cam Newton was either. This is all bullshit hype because that's the internet world we live in where everyone is the best thing to ever happen all the time. Constant hyperbole. He throws way too many fucking interceptions to be good. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. And if he wasn't on a great team, yes FSU is a great talented team with major speed playing in a shitty conference, he'd have lost a lot more games. So the INTs he threw in college doom him from being a successful QB in the NFL? The NFL scouts and coaches have less issue with his INTs than most fans do. That's because they realize what they are looking at. If all you look at is a stat sheet, I can see why you would think the way you do. To say Winston is Internet hype and constant hyperbole is actually funny. Well thank you. And if you think scouts aren't taking issue with the interceptions then you're just choosing to ignore them. Even McShat has commented on them being a concern. You laugh about my hyperbole comment and then go straight to the hyperbolic chamber pretending you know what scouts and NFL coaches are concerned with. Irony much? God damn, with how much you guys suck this kids dick I'm actually glad we won't have a shot at him. You'd think this kid invented the forward pass. Let's just leave it with me being less than impressed. I'm not interested in the back and forth banter. I feel like I'm arguing deflategate with Flats* fans.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Feb 25, 2015 21:15:53 GMT -5
So the INTs he threw in college doom him from being a successful QB in the NFL? The NFL scouts and coaches have less issue with his INTs than most fans do. That's because they realize what they are looking at. If all you look at is a stat sheet, I can see why you would think the way you do. To say Winston is Internet hype and constant hyperbole is actually funny. Well thank you. And if you think scouts aren't taking issue with the interceptions then you're just choosing to ignore them. Even McShat has commented on them being a concern. You laugh about my hyperbole comment and then go straight to the hyperbolic chamber pretending you know what scouts and NFL coaches are concerned with. Irony much? God damn, with how much you guys suck this kids dick I'm actually glad we won't have a shot at him. You'd think this kid invented the forward pass. Let's just leave it with me being less than impressed. I'm not interested in the back and forth banter. I feel like I'm arguing deflategate with Flats* fans. I don't blame you, I feel the same way, kind of like trying to teach a dog to speak Chinese.
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Post by Jet Nut Sauce on Feb 25, 2015 23:11:31 GMT -5
Agreed. No offense to anyone but if you're making a case of comparing these QBs, especially Tebow you either didn't watch any of their college careers or you don't have a clue. Tebow and Winston are as dissimilar as you can possibly be. Winston will be a star on the next level. It's not hype, no one anywhere thinks he over hyped. I hope we're lucky enough to get him Yeah, he'll be a star for being a bust. There's not way in hell he's a better QB prospect than Cam Newton was either. This is all bullshit hype because that's the internet world we live in where everyone is the best thing to ever happen all the time. Constant hyperbole. He throws way too many fucking interceptions to be good. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. And if he wasn't on a great team, yes FSU is a great talented team with major speed playing in a shitty conference, he'd have lost a lot more games. Why don't you stop with all the bullshit and just admit that you don't like the guy, you think he's a thug and want him to fail instead of coming up with stupid reasons he won't succeeed. Reasons that are important only to you. And have nothing to do with logic. If you can't conceed that he had little around him and still managed to carry his team to the finals fine. But that's what happened and anyone who has watched his on field performances think he's a stud. You call that hype. That is where it should end.
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Post by JB1089 on Feb 25, 2015 23:31:25 GMT -5
FSU is one of the only college teams that has a passing game built on sight adjustments and NFL-style option routes. The QB and the receivers both need to be able to read coverages, and they need to be on the same page.
In Winston's first year, he was playing with a group of veteran (by college standards) receivers. They were confident in their reads, ran the correct routes, and were able to play at full speed. In Winston's 2nd year, he was playing with Greene, O'Leary, and a bunch of freshman. Freshman receivers struggle mightily in FSU's offense. Kelvin Benjamin had been a major disappointment until 2013. High school football doesn't prepare them for the things they're asked to do. They're not entirely sure of what they're seeing, so they're late getting into and out of their breaks, sometimes run the wrong route entirely, and undoubtedly drop some catchable passes because they're heads are spinning from information overload.
Now, all of that is compounded by one of Winston's greatest STRENGTHS: his anticipation. One of the biggest problems that QBs struggle with in their transition to the NFL is learning the difference between "college open" and "NFL open" and adjusting to how quickly the passing windows close. Being a successful QB in the NFL requires you to complete passes into small windows, into coverage. In order to complete these passes, you can't hesitate, and Winston doesn't. He also throws it early, very early. He trusts his reads and receivers. IF the coverage is telling him that they SHOULD be open after they make their break, he's throwing the ball. That this is something that he already does with great consistency puts him so far ahead of the game.
In his interviews with teams, he demonstrated that he's not just blindly gunning it in there. He understands which passing concepts are used to beat which coverages, and as a result who knows who SHOULD be open. That is why he is throwing it early. Because he's throwing it BEFORE they even get into their break, if the receiver is not exactly on time with his route, it's going to lead to problems that wouldn't exist if he waited until during or after the break to throw the ball. Of course, in the NFL, you MUST throw the ball before the break. So...the INTs that were the result of Winston throwing it early and the receiver being early/late or not fully committed to the route are not going to be viewed in a negative light by the scouts. Holding onto the ball for that second longer means a reduction in college turnovers, but a closed passing window in the NFL. Just about every college QB has to work on speeding up their decision making. Winston, if he doesn't already think at NFL speed, is about as close to doing so as a college QB can be.
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Post by jett on Feb 26, 2015 9:26:07 GMT -5
FSU is one of the only college teams that has a passing game built on sight adjustments and NFL-style option routes. The QB and the receivers both need to be able to read coverages, and they need to be on the same page. In Winston's first year, he was playing with a group of veteran (by college standards) receivers. They were confident in their reads, ran the correct routes, and were able to play at full speed. In Winston's 2nd year, he was playing with Greene, O'Leary, and a bunch of freshman. Freshman receivers struggle mightily in FSU's offense. Kelvin Benjamin had been a major disappointment until 2013. High school football doesn't prepare them for the things they're asked to do. They're not entirely sure of what they're seeing, so they're late getting into and out of their breaks, sometimes run the wrong route entirely, and undoubtedly drop some catchable passes because they're heads are spinning from information overload. Now, all of that is compounded by one of Winston's greatest STRENGTHS: his anticipation. One of the biggest problems that QBs struggle with in their transition to the NFL is learning the difference between "college open" and "NFL open" and adjusting to how quickly the passing windows close. Being a successful QB in the NFL requires you to complete passes into small windows, into coverage. In order to complete these passes, you can't hesitate, and Winston doesn't. He also throws it early, very early. He trusts his reads and receivers. IF the coverage is telling him that they SHOULD be open after they make their break, he's throwing the ball. That this is something that he already does with great consistency puts him so far ahead of the game. In his interviews with teams, he demonstrated that he's not just blindly gunning it in there. He understands which passing concepts are used to beat which coverages, and as a result who knows who SHOULD be open. That is why he is throwing it early. Because he's throwing it BEFORE they even get into their break, if the receiver is not exactly on time with his route, it's going to lead to problems that wouldn't exist if he waited until during or after the break to throw the ball. Of course, in the NFL, you MUST throw the ball before the break. So...the INTs that were the result of Winston throwing it early and the receiver being early/late or not fully committed to the route are not going to be viewed in a negative light by the scouts. Holding onto the ball for that second longer means a reduction in college turnovers, but a closed passing window in the NFL. Just about every college QB has to work on speeding up their decision making. Winston, if he doesn't already think at NFL speed, is about as close to doing so as a college QB can be. This is a superb analysis and put everything I was thinking into words, excellent post. I agree with everything and this qb is as pro ready as any other qb I've seen, short for a few like Luck. He's got the makeup of a franchise quarterback, the size, the mind, the arm etc. I think this guy is going to be the real deal.
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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 9:40:54 GMT -5
Yeah, he'll be a star for being a bust. There's not way in hell he's a better QB prospect than Cam Newton was either. This is all bullshit hype because that's the internet world we live in where everyone is the best thing to ever happen all the time. Constant hyperbole. He throws way too many fucking interceptions to be good. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. And if he wasn't on a great team, yes FSU is a great talented team with major speed playing in a shitty conference, he'd have lost a lot more games. Why don't you stop with all the bullshit and just admit that you don't like the guy, you think he's a thug and want him to fail instead of coming up with stupid reasons he won't succeeed. Reasons that are important only to you. And have nothing to do with logic. If you can't conceed that he had little around him and still managed to carry his team to the finals fine. But that's what happened and anyone who has watched his on field performances think he's a stud. You call that hype. That is where it should end. I'm pretty sure I did that already. And the thug comment is gay. I don't think he's a thug. I actually think he's a soft ass bitch but what does that matter? Why don't you just admit that we have a perfectly good QB on the Jets already. I mean, based on how you view Winston interceptions are no big deal. That's the only hole in Geno's game. Oh yeah, go fuck yourself.
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Post by Hotman on Feb 26, 2015 9:54:58 GMT -5
Yeah, he'll be a star for being a bust. There's not way in hell he's a better QB prospect than Cam Newton was either. This is all bullshit hype because that's the internet world we live in where everyone is the best thing to ever happen all the time. Constant hyperbole. He throws way too many fucking interceptions to be good. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. And if he wasn't on a great team, yes FSU is a great talented team with major speed playing in a shitty conference, he'd have lost a lot more games. Why don't you stop with all the bullshit and just admit that you don't like the guy, you think he's a thug and want him to fail instead of coming up with stupid reasons he won't succeeed. Reasons that are important only to you. And have nothing to do with logic. If you can't conceed that he had little around him and still managed to carry his team to the finals fine. But that's what happened and anyone who has watched his on field performances think he's a stud. You call that hype. That is where it should end. Bro.. LOL... Bro.... I'mma hip you to a lil secret insider info, free of charge, no VIP membership needed. southside aint white.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Feb 26, 2015 10:18:05 GMT -5
FSU is one of the only college teams that has a passing game built on sight adjustments and NFL-style option routes. The QB and the receivers both need to be able to read coverages, and they need to be on the same page. In Winston's first year, he was playing with a group of veteran (by college standards) receivers. They were confident in their reads, ran the correct routes, and were able to play at full speed. In Winston's 2nd year, he was playing with Greene, O'Leary, and a bunch of freshman. Freshman receivers struggle mightily in FSU's offense. Kelvin Benjamin had been a major disappointment until 2013. High school football doesn't prepare them for the things they're asked to do. They're not entirely sure of what they're seeing, so they're late getting into and out of their breaks, sometimes run the wrong route entirely, and undoubtedly drop some catchable passes because they're heads are spinning from information overload. Now, all of that is compounded by one of Winston's greatest STRENGTHS: his anticipation. One of the biggest problems that QBs struggle with in their transition to the NFL is learning the difference between "college open" and "NFL open" and adjusting to how quickly the passing windows close. Being a successful QB in the NFL requires you to complete passes into small windows, into coverage. In order to complete these passes, you can't hesitate, and Winston doesn't. He also throws it early, very early. He trusts his reads and receivers. IF the coverage is telling him that they SHOULD be open after they make their break, he's throwing the ball. That this is something that he already does with great consistency puts him so far ahead of the game. In his interviews with teams, he demonstrated that he's not just blindly gunning it in there. He understands which passing concepts are used to beat which coverages, and as a result who knows who SHOULD be open. That is why he is throwing it early. Because he's throwing it BEFORE they even get into their break, if the receiver is not exactly on time with his route, it's going to lead to problems that wouldn't exist if he waited until during or after the break to throw the ball. Of course, in the NFL, you MUST throw the ball before the break. So...the INTs that were the result of Winston throwing it early and the receiver being early/late or not fully committed to the route are not going to be viewed in a negative light by the scouts. Holding onto the ball for that second longer means a reduction in college turnovers, but a closed passing window in the NFL. Just about every college QB has to work on speeding up their decision making. Winston, if he doesn't already think at NFL speed, is about as close to doing so as a college QB can be. Good post, that's why I mentioned that scouts are not as worried about the INTs as some fans are. Getting a college QB to trust his read and throw into tight windows is one of the biggest challenges they face. He also stands in the pocket and takes hits, can shed defenders and still delivers a pretty accurate ball. Add in the fact that he is still really young and hasn't had an offseason to devote to playing QB, and you have a kid that still has a lot of room to grow.
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Post by southside on Feb 26, 2015 10:42:14 GMT -5
I really don't understand how anyone could tell another poster they shouldn't be worried about him throwing 18 ints this year. Nor do I understand berating someone who objectively watched the kid struggle all season, playing terrible for long stretches of the game to eek out last second wins on a weekly basis.... And doesn't jump on the, "He's the best prospect in 10 years besides Luck" line of bullshit. The kid had a terrible season. Just admit it because he did. If that doesn't bother you then that's great. To try and thinly call someone a racist because Winston threw a college career worth of interceptions in one season is fucking gay.
That whole thug comment, he should have manned up and said what he really meant by insinuating that I think Winston is a big lipped negro who should be sitting on the back of the bus because I'm some scared white boy who can't stand a black guy playing the white man's position.
Is that thug enough for you Jet Nut? Fucking douchebag.
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Post by sec.101row23 on Feb 26, 2015 10:47:24 GMT -5
I really don't understand how anyone could tell another poster they shouldn't be worried about him throwing 18 ints this year. Nor do I understand berating someone who objectively watched the kid struggle all season, playing terrible for long stretches of the game to eek out last second wins on a weekly basis.... And doesn't jump on the, "He's the best prospect in 10 years besides Luck" line of bullshit. The kid had a terrible season. Just admit it because he did. If that doesn't bother you then that's great. To try and thinly call someone a racist because Winston threw a college career worth of interceptions in one season is fucking gay. That whole thug comment, he should have manned up and said what he really meant by insinuating that I think Winston is a big lipped negro who should be sitting on the back of the bus because I'm some scared white boy who can't stand a black guy playing the white man's position. Is that thug enough for you Jet Nut? Fucking douchebag. Not for nothing but you cited McShay as being someone who was concerned with the INTs, but then he was actually the one who made the comment that he thinks Winston is the best QB prospect in last 10 years since Luck. So how concerned can he really be about the INTs if he thinks he is that good of a prospect? Doesn't really support your argument much.
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Post by nolenation on Feb 26, 2015 10:49:51 GMT -5
Winston is going to be the next big thing in the NFL. I am definitely jealous of Bucs fans.
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