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Post by Augustiniak on Apr 26, 2015 8:48:16 GMT -5
i wholeheartedly disagree. while i think gurley is way better than trent and should have a good career if he stays healthy, i am against taking a rb coming off an acl tear at #6. the odds are rbs have shorter careers and wear down quicker than other positions, and that's before you consider the acl.
I think where we disagree is this: I believe he has a 'great' career if he stays healthy. And looking around the league, we're seeing more and more guys come back from ACL injuries and returning to their prior performance (AP being a notable case). I look at what Matt Harvey's doing right now just off his Tommy John and it's amazing how much different recovery performance is now than just a few years ago. However, I completely respect that we have different risk profiles for his performance and likelihood of a repeat injury. Tough call but some GM in the top 15 is going to put his name on the card.
So here's an interesting way to look at it.
Which scenario do you prefer: 1)Jets draft Beasley and Dolphins draft Gurley. 2) Jets draft Gurley and Dolphins draft Ray or Dupree (assuming Beasley is gone by then)?
I think I really don't like option 1.
i think i'd rather the jets take cooper or white, i think both will be very good players for a long time. i don't think the jets will take an edge rusher in the 1st. i think they're gearing to trade up to 3 for mariotta if he's there, or assess how much they could get if they trade back, and if they'd be happy with peat or parker. i like gurley and we're in agreement that he'll have a good career (the healthy caveat applies to every player), but taking a rb at 6 in today's nfl is too risky and it's tough to point to enough first round rbs who's had good success, compared to other positions.
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Post by nycdan on Apr 26, 2015 8:54:37 GMT -5
I think where we disagree is this: I believe he has a 'great' career if he stays healthy. And looking around the league, we're seeing more and more guys come back from ACL injuries and returning to their prior performance (AP being a notable case). I look at what Matt Harvey's doing right now just off his Tommy John and it's amazing how much different recovery performance is now than just a few years ago. However, I completely respect that we have different risk profiles for his performance and likelihood of a repeat injury. Tough call but some GM in the top 15 is going to put his name on the card.
So here's an interesting way to look at it.
Which scenario do you prefer: 1)Jets draft Beasley and Dolphins draft Gurley. 2) Jets draft Gurley and Dolphins draft Ray or Dupree (assuming Beasley is gone by then)?
I think I really don't like option 1.
i think i'd rather the jets take cooper or white, i think both will be very good players for a long time. i don't think the jets will take an edge rusher in the 1st. i think they're gearing to trade up to 3 for mariotta if he's there, or assess how much they could get if they trade back, and if they'd be happy with peat or parker. i like gurley and we're in agreement that he'll have a good career (the healthy caveat applies to every player), but taking a rb at 6 in today's nfl is too risky and it's tough to point to enough first round rbs who's had good success, compared to other positions.
There we agree. I only consider Gurley if Mariota, Fowler and especially Cooper are off the board and probably White as well. It's Gurley vs. one of the other OLBs where I consider him strongly.
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Post by maury77 on Apr 26, 2015 9:46:28 GMT -5
Damn... Y'all got my boner juices going with all this talk and that freakish video.. I'd say his knee is fine. :0 Watch this game: draftbreakdown.com/video/todd-gurley-vs-clemson-2014/There's a ton of highlight reel material in there, but zero in on the play at 5:38... that kind of domination will win you games, whether it's against OAK, or SEA in SEA... You can't coach that. BTW: Guys like Gurley make guys like Beasley non-existent. There's not scouts highlight reel material here for Vic. Case in point why taking Beasley over Gurley is asinine. I'm RSVPing Paradis's invite to join this thread I also watched the draftbreakdown analysis for Beasley in this game and he was non existent, however, Clemson (for reasons unknown to me), was stunting Beasley inside a lot in this game. That doesn't play to Beasley's strengths. However, pass rushers (even elite ones) are always going to have games where they disappear, that's just the nature of the position (unless you're JJ Watt). Abraham used to have games like that all the time on the Jets. Gurley's ceiling is higher than Beasley's, however, I can't just disregard each player's history injury or the value of a pass rusher v. the value of a rb.
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Post by Paradis on Apr 26, 2015 12:32:57 GMT -5
I think where we disagree is this: I believe he has a 'great' career if he stays healthy. And looking around the league, we're seeing more and more guys come back from ACL injuries and returning to their prior performance (AP being a notable case). I look at what Matt Harvey's doing right now just off his Tommy John and it's amazing how much different recovery performance is now than just a few years ago. However, I completely respect that we have different risk profiles for his performance and likelihood of a repeat injury. Tough call but some GM in the top 15 is going to put his name on the card.
So here's an interesting way to look at it.
Which scenario do you prefer: 1)Jets draft Beasley and Dolphins draft Gurley. 2) Jets draft Gurley and Dolphins draft Ray or Dupree (assuming Beasley is gone by then)?
I think I really don't like option 1.
i think i'd rather the jets take cooper or white, i think both will be very good players for a long time. i don't think the jets will take an edge rusher in the 1st. i think they're gearing to trade up to 3 for mariotta if he's there, or assess how much they could get if they trade back, and if they'd be happy with peat or parker. i like gurley and we're in agreement that he'll have a good career (the healthy caveat applies to every player), but taking a rb at 6 in today's nfl is too risky and it's tough to point to enough first round rbs who's had good success, compared to other positions. I can't knock anyone for wanting a WR, especially with the talent available (we haven't picked one in round 1 since 2001, yeesh) but if you want to talk about risk, the risk of White not developing into a franchise #1 WR is much higher than Gurley getting injured IMO. White is a great prospect, but he's not Cooper, or Parker for that matter. He still has develop parts of his game. For that reason, he's 100% under Gurley on my board.
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Post by Paradis on Apr 26, 2015 12:35:16 GMT -5
Few thoughts on this. First of all, I think Untouchable summed it up perfectly. Other than Fowler, the pass rushers are all flawed. Potentially great, but risky and I don't know how to choose one of the next four or five over the others. Having to choose between Ray, Beasley and Dupree at #6 doesn't make me feel good. On the other hand, you have one, maybe two WRs and one RB that are all considered low-risk, high-reward picks. This isn't new to this thread, but if Fowler, Mariota and Cooper are off the board, I think Gurley is a viable option, along with White. The good news...assuming Winston doesn't rob a bank before Thursday, I see our absolute worst case option as Winston, Mariota, Cooper, White and Fowler all taken 1-5. In this scenario, I think Gurley could be the pick. If White is still there, it could still be a tossup depending on the FO's assessments. But I don't see us being left out of getting a blue chip prospect and with the knee risk acknowledged, Gurley is a blue chipper. i wholeheartedly disagree. while i think gurley is way better than trent and should have a good career if he stays healthy, i am against taking a rb coming off an acl tear at #6. the odds are rbs have shorter careers and wear down quicker than other positions, and that's before you consider the acl. While you can't totally disregard the injury, you can't torpedo a guy like Gurley's stock for it either.
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Post by Fishooked on Apr 27, 2015 5:16:02 GMT -5
Well we can't draft him now, I can't unsee that nickname.
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Post by rangerous on Apr 27, 2015 19:42:27 GMT -5
I wouldn't be pissed about it because I truly believe that Gurley has the potential and skill to be a transcendent talent at the position like Peterson. Still, I doubt that's the direction the Jets go in. a really good back can help turn a team around. get a guy who can break away from the secondary and be good enough catching passes and pass protection and it will really help this team. ball control is still a pretty effective way to play the game.
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Post by rangerous on Apr 27, 2015 19:43:33 GMT -5
Yeah my concern about Gurley is not his ability but the fact that he is coming off a major injury, an ACL injury of all things. He also injured his ankle in 2013. Questions about whether he will lose a step and also his violent running style for a guy that has an injury history is a concern. To me, I think its a little different then say Revis tearing his ACL because he is not exposed to contact as much. All you doctors in the house please correct me if I am wrong but that's what I think. The guy is supremely talented no doubt, could be compared to Marshawn Lynch but with better speed, but I would pass at 6 if in fact the rumors are true that he will be a top 10 pick which I think is BS. However, if he is there late in round 1 and we already corralled a edge rusher with our first pick, I would totally be open for a trade up to get him. mcgahey did pretty well for himself and he came into the draft injured. i think he even sat a year.
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Post by Touchable on Apr 27, 2015 19:44:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't be pissed about it because I truly believe that Gurley has the potential and skill to be a transcendent talent at the position like Peterson. Still, I doubt that's the direction the Jets go in. a really good back can help turn a team around. get a guy who can break away from the secondary and be good enough catching passes and pass protection and it will really help this team. ball control is still a pretty effective way to play the game. Exactly Take Lynch away from Seattle, and that team isn't remotely the same and neither is Russell Wilson. The fact that they were willing to give him $14 million a year to come back should tell you that teams still value elite level RB's who can truly make a difference.
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Post by Peebag on Apr 27, 2015 19:49:39 GMT -5
Todd Gutley is not a Marshawn Lynch clone - no one is
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Post by jetstream23 on Apr 28, 2015 15:45:01 GMT -5
Love him, but too early at #6 IMO. I'd like him or Davante Parker if the Jets traded down to the 10-13 range.
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Post by joepnyj1 on Apr 28, 2015 19:08:40 GMT -5
Yeah my concern about Gurley is not his ability but the fact that he is coming off a major injury, an ACL injury of all things. He also injured his ankle in 2013. Questions about whether he will lose a step and also his violent running style for a guy that has an injury history is a concern. To me, I think its a little different then say Revis tearing his ACL because he is not exposed to contact as much. All you doctors in the house please correct me if I am wrong but that's what I think. The guy is supremely talented no doubt, could be compared to Marshawn Lynch but with better speed, but I would pass at 6 if in fact the rumors are true that he will be a top 10 pick which I think is BS. However, if he is there late in round 1 and we already corralled a edge rusher with our first pick, I would totally be open for a trade up to get him. mcgahey did pretty well for himself and he came into the draft injured. i think he even sat a year. Sorry but I Prefer the AD comparison over the McGahee comparison. If Gurley becomes anything similar to McGahee I won't be thrilled.
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Post by Hotman on Apr 28, 2015 19:41:52 GMT -5
For some reason I have a very hard time believing these Lynch comparisons.
I've seen literally nothing to suggest he's as beastworthy as Lynch
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Post by Paradis on Apr 28, 2015 22:37:12 GMT -5
Love him, but too early at #6 IMO. I'd like him or Davante Parker if the Jets traded down to the 10-13 range. I don't totally "get" this argument/state of mind... I mean, if we're talking about say, Dorsett or Ajayi, then ya of course. They're clearly not top 20 prospects... but 6 vs 10? Either you love him or you don't. And if you love him, then take and give no fucks about the exact number you took him at... cause 3 years from now, you're not going to give a shit about those 4 spots. For sake of making an example we'll say my big board reads Cooper, Mariota, Fowler, Gurley, Parker, White, Beasley etc... and when pick 6 comes, Mariota, Cooper and Fowler are gone... am I gonna take Beasley simply because that's where he's supposed to go? I say if you love him, then damn whatever the ranks are. You take your guy.
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Post by jetstream23 on Apr 28, 2015 23:33:53 GMT -5
Love him, but too early at #6 IMO. I'd like him or Davante Parker if the Jets traded down to the 10-13 range. I don't totally "get" this argument/state of mind... I mean, if we're talking about say, Dorsett or Ajayi, then ya of course. They're clearly not top 20 prospects... but 6 vs 10? Either you love him or you don't. And if you love him, then take and give no fucks about the exact number you took him at... cause 3 years from now, you're not going to give a shit about those 4 spots. For sake of making an example we'll say my big board reads Cooper, Mariota, Fowler, Gurley, Parker, White, Beasley etc... and when pick 6 comes, Mariota, Cooper and Fowler are gone... am I gonna take Beasley simply because that's where he's supposed to go? I say if you love him, then damn whatever the ranks are. You take your guy. Fair enough. He's the best RB and I'd love to see him as a Jets but what I'm saying is that I don't think he's a Top 6 player. I'd like to get him a little later and pick up a 3rd rounder for moving down. Same thing with Parker. If we exit Round 1 with Davante Parker then I'm psyched but only if we took him later than 6.
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