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Post by DDNYjets on May 14, 2015 21:37:09 GMT -5
I would first try to sign him to a reasonable extension. IMO "reasonable" wouldn't be more than the Calais Campbell contract. If that didnt work then I would shop him. If someone was willing to give us a #1 I would be ecstatic although I dont think we would net that given his contract situation and the perception that he wants big money.
The way the league works is that you cant keep everyone. Sometimes you even have to replace the good players you drafted.
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Post by RobR on May 14, 2015 23:05:07 GMT -5
I'd like to hear someone's opinion who's more knowledgeable about personnel fit on whether it would be beneficial to move to a 4-3. Thinking Leonard and Wilk on the outside and Snacks and Sheldon in the middle. Would Bowles do this? Are the body types right for a four man front? I would put Richardson and Coples on the inside with Wilk and Leo flanking the outsides. Try and stop that four man front.....I dare you. I don't solely go by height/weight measurements, only where these guys excel. Coples and Richardson should be interior guys but this entire line is flexible. Just keep Coples as far away from an OLB and maybe he will blossom. He was completely misused by the Rex system. Wilk-Coples-Richardson-Leo is fucking scary. Then throw in Snacks for a rotational basis and this has the makings of the best DLine in all of the NFL.
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Post by RobR on May 14, 2015 23:12:12 GMT -5
I would first try to sign him to a reasonable extension. IMO "reasonable" wouldn't be more than the Calais Campbell contract. If that didnt work then I would shop him. If someone was willing to give us a #1 I would be ecstatic although I dont think we would net that given his contract situation and the perception that he wants big money. The way the league works is that you cant keep everyone. Sometimes you even have to replace the good players you drafted. Why would you be ecstatic for getting a #1 for a proven DLineman entering his prime? We can keep all of them with our QB set too make peanuts for the next three years at the absolute minimum.
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Post by jetstream23 on May 15, 2015 0:13:21 GMT -5
I'd like to hear someone's opinion who's more knowledgeable about personnel fit on whether it would be beneficial to move to a 4-3. Thinking Leonard and Wilk on the outside and Snacks and Sheldon in the middle. Would Bowles do this? Are the body types right for a four man front? I would put Richardson and Coples on the inside with Wilk and Leo flanking the outsides. Try and stop that four man front.....I dare you. I don't solely go by height/weight measurements, only where these guys excel. Coples and Richardson should be interior guys but this entire line is flexible. Just keep Coples as far away from an OLB and maybe he will blossom. He was completely misused by the Rex system. Wilk-Coples-Richardson-Leo is fucking scary. Then throw in Snacks for a rotational basis and this has the makings of the best DLine in all of the NFL. On paper it looks great, but I think a Wilkerson-Coples-Richardson-Williams front would be too much of a compromise for both run and pass. What I mean is that our best run stuffer is Harrison. We'd want him in there to clog up the middle on rushing downs. He's usually a 1st and 2nd down player most times anyway. If we're pass rushing then I think that group of 4 isn't quite what you'd want for a 4-3. We need faster ends, better outside speed rushers. Mo, Williams, and Richardson are all ideal for 3-4 DE, but not quite for 4-3 DEs in my opinion. They're certainly not bad but think of your typical hand-in-the-dirt speed rushers that usually come from the outside DE position in a 4-3. Those aren't usually 305 lb guys. because they have a little bit more distance to cover to get to the QB when spread out wide in a 4-3. Quite simply, our best alignment is likely a 3-4 that includes Wilkerson - Harrison - Richardson or Williams - Harrison - Richardson. The thing that hurts is we know our 2nd level (Linebackers) is the week spot on the Defense and we'd likely have 3 or 4 linebackers on the field that aren't as good as the DE we have on the sideline. That's why I think some type of trade to unlock the value we have on the DLine could make sense. I don't want to trade Mo Wilkerson, but I'm not quite sure if/how Bowles will manage to keep all 3 of our top defensive lineman on the field enough to warrant keeping them all. While his system is very flexible there's simply no alignment that puts three DEs in their best position to succeed in a 3-4. Again, the Jets have the luxury of both time (2015 and 2016 if they want to franchise Wilkerson) and they also have the Cap space to manage this. I guess one approach could be to lock up Mo and then think about what to do with Richardson who becomes a UFA in 2017.
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Post by jetstream23 on May 15, 2015 0:25:08 GMT -5
I would first try to sign him to a reasonable extension. IMO "reasonable" wouldn't be more than the Calais Campbell contract. If that didnt work then I would shop him. If someone was willing to give us a #1 I would be ecstatic although I dont think we would net that given his contract situation and the perception that he wants big money. The way the league works is that you cant keep everyone. Sometimes you even have to replace the good players you drafted. Why would you be ecstatic for getting a #1 for a proven DLineman entering his prime? We can keep all of them with our QB set too make peanuts for the next three years at the absolute minimum. If a guy lived in a shithole apartment but had two Ferraris in the garage he might be open to selling one car and buying a nice house. That's kinda the position the Jets are in. You can only drive one car at a time, you can only start 2 DEs at a time. We are simply loaded on the DLine...it's a great problem to have. But the Jets could certainly use a QB, maybe a stud OLB, maybe an elite RB in the next 1-2 years. Rather than playing a 3-4 DE in a position where he's not a perfect fit (ex. 3-4 NT or 4-3 DT) just to get him on the field, rather than keeping 1 of 3 guys with potential Pro Bowl talent on the sideline, I'd prefer to unlock that value and use it to significantly upgrade another position.
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Post by DDNYjets on May 15, 2015 5:58:48 GMT -5
I would first try to sign him to a reasonable extension. IMO "reasonable" wouldn't be more than the Calais Campbell contract. If that didnt work then I would shop him. If someone was willing to give us a #1 I would be ecstatic although I dont think we would net that given his contract situation and the perception that he wants big money. The way the league works is that you cant keep everyone. Sometimes you even have to replace the good players you drafted. Why would you be ecstatic for getting a #1 for a proven DLineman entering his prime? We can keep all of them with our QB set too make peanuts for the next three years at the absolute minimum. Many reasons. I know we dont technically have to do anything with him for two years and 3 years for Sheldon. And not having to pay a QB certainly helps (although I would rather have that problem). But I like to get these things resolved rather than just kick the can down the road. Honestly, I think Sheldon is the better player and would rather lock him up long term if I had to choose. And under my theory I would have to choose b.c I dont like kicking the can down the road with franchise tags and I also would like to get something back for him so making a decision sooner rather than later fits what I believe to be the right thing to do. Once again, my first choice would be to extend him for what I think is a reasonable deal. And I am NOT saying getting an draft pick is equal value.
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Post by greenwave on May 15, 2015 8:13:12 GMT -5
Would only trade him if it gets us a QB in return somehow. Whether trading for a young veteran or using him as a piece of a trade to move up in the draft to take the top guy next year. AND also if Williams shows huge potential his first season. This is where I am at the moment. If a Wilkerson trade isn't with the design of acquiring a franchise QB (or possibly the top LT in the draft if Brick has a down year), then why trade Mo? The one wildcard in this for me is what Bowles does with QC. If Coples were to move back to the line and improve his play, could be a case where it makes sense to bring QC back and trade Mo to bolster another position.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 9:06:32 GMT -5
If Mo stays and Richardson is the man out I will be disappointed. I think Richardson has a better motor in that he still plays 110% at the end of the season, whereas Mo tends to peter off a little bit and gets swallowed up by blocks at the end of the year. It might just be Richardson's youth that enables him to play full throttle all year, but I think it makes sense to invest in the younger player for this reason.
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Post by RobR on May 15, 2015 9:21:12 GMT -5
Why would you be ecstatic for getting a #1 for a proven DLineman entering his prime? We can keep all of them with our QB set too make peanuts for the next three years at the absolute minimum. If a guy lived in shithole apartment but had two Ferraris in the garage he might be open to selling one car and buying a nice house. That's kinda the position the Jets are in. You can only drive one car at a time, you can only start 2 DEs at a time. We are simply loaded on the DLine...it's a great problem to have. But the Jets could certainly use a QB, maybe a stud OLB, maybe an elite RB in the next 1-2 years. Rather than playing a 3-4 DE in a position where he's not a perfect fit (ex. 3-4 NT or 4-3 DT) just to get him on the field, rather than keeping 1 of 3 guys with potential Pro Bowl talent on the sideline, I'd prefer to unlock that value and use it to significantly upgrade another position. All very good points that you bring up and I understand the reasoning. My point is people don't realize how hard it is to get a player of Mo's ability in this league. Defensive line is a premium position and they get drafted throughout the first round.......how many of them pan out? We have one that panned out and I'm not willing to give him up in his prime. So I'm keeping the two Ferraris, because you never know if the one you sell brings back a lemon.
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Post by JetRepulsion1 on May 15, 2015 9:28:02 GMT -5
Trade him for Dez Bryant.
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Post by DDNYjets on May 15, 2015 9:40:09 GMT -5
If a guy lived in shithole apartment but had two Ferraris in the garage he might be open to selling one car and buying a nice house. That's kinda the position the Jets are in. You can only drive one car at a time, you can only start 2 DEs at a time. We are simply loaded on the DLine...it's a great problem to have. But the Jets could certainly use a QB, maybe a stud OLB, maybe an elite RB in the next 1-2 years. Rather than playing a 3-4 DE in a position where he's not a perfect fit (ex. 3-4 NT or 4-3 DT) just to get him on the field, rather than keeping 1 of 3 guys with potential Pro Bowl talent on the sideline, I'd prefer to unlock that value and use it to significantly upgrade another position. All very good points that you bring up and I understand the reasoning. My point is people don't realize how hard it is to get a player of Mo's ability in this league. Defensive line is a premium position and they get drafted throughout the first round.......how many of them pan out? We have one that panned out and I'm not willing to give him up in his prime. So I'm keeping the two Ferraris, because you never know if the one you sell brings back a lemon. What if selling one Ferrari allows you to get a nice SUV that the wife can drive and put the kids in? Wife is happy, the marriage is better and you have some money put aside to buy someone else's Maserati.
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Post by Brady's a catcher on May 15, 2015 11:29:37 GMT -5
I would put Richardson and Coples on the inside with Wilk and Leo flanking the outsides. Try and stop that four man front.....I dare you. I don't solely go by height/weight measurements, only where these guys excel. Coples and Richardson should be interior guys but this entire line is flexible. Just keep Coples as far away from an OLB and maybe he will blossom. He was completely misused by the Rex system. Wilk-Coples-Richardson-Leo is fucking scary. Then throw in Snacks for a rotational basis and this has the makings of the best DLine in all of the NFL. On paper it looks great, but I think a Wilkerson-Coples-Richardson-Williams front would be too much of a compromise for both run and pass. What I mean is that our best run stuffer is Harrison. We'd want him in there to clog up the middle on rushing downs. He's usually a 1st and 2nd down player most times anyway. If we're pass rushing then I think that group of 4 isn't quite what you'd want for a 4-3. We need faster ends, better outside speed rushers. Mo, Williams, and Richardson are all ideal for 3-4 DE, but not quite for 4-3 DEs in my opinion. They're certainly not bad but think of your typical hand-in-the-dirt speed rushers that usually come from the outside DE position in a 4-3. Those aren't usually 305 lb guys. because they have a little bit more distance to cover to get to the QB when spread out wide in a 4-3. Quite simply, our best alignment is likely a 3-4 that includes Wilkerson - Harrison - Richardson or Williams - Harrison - Richardson. The thing that hurts is we know our 2nd level (Linebackers) is the week spot on the Defense and we'd likely have 3 or 4 linebackers on the field that aren't as good as the DE we have on the sideline. That's why I think some type of trade to unlock the value we have on the DLine could make sense. I don't want to trade Mo Wilkerson, but I'm not quite sure if/how Bowles will manage to keep all 3 of our top defensive lineman on the field enough to warrant keeping them all. While his system is very flexible there's simply no alignment that puts three DEs in their best position to succeed in a 3-4. Again, the Jets have the luxury of both time (2015 and 2016 if they want to franchise Wilkerson) and they also have the Cap space to manage this. I guess one approach could be to lock up Mo and then think about what to do with Richardson who becomes a UFA in 2017. I agree that the personnel is far from ideal for a true, consistent 4-3 look. What I've been thinking about since the draft is the dolfquifs DL circa 2000 that had Bowens, Gardiner, etc. They were really deep and had a regular rotation and always had fresh beasts coming after you. I'm hoping to see something similar. No one has to play too many snaps, everyone fresh and playing "like a bunch of crazed dogs". some 4-3 looks, plenty of nickel and dime looks with 4 down lineman. Add couples, Snacks and Douzable to the big 3 and they can come in waves all day. Also, injuries are common, in general. Just like with starting pitching, you can never have too many excellent DL. What seems like a surplus today can quickly become just enough. Man, I cannot wait to see these guys in action!
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Post by jetstream23 on May 15, 2015 11:34:22 GMT -5
If a guy lived in shithole apartment but had two Ferraris in the garage he might be open to selling one car and buying a nice house. That's kinda the position the Jets are in. You can only drive one car at a time, you can only start 2 DEs at a time. We are simply loaded on the DLine...it's a great problem to have. But the Jets could certainly use a QB, maybe a stud OLB, maybe an elite RB in the next 1-2 years. Rather than playing a 3-4 DE in a position where he's not a perfect fit (ex. 3-4 NT or 4-3 DT) just to get him on the field, rather than keeping 1 of 3 guys with potential Pro Bowl talent on the sideline, I'd prefer to unlock that value and use it to significantly upgrade another position. All very good points that you bring up and I understand the reasoning. My point is people don't realize how hard it is to get a player of Mo's ability in this league. Defensive line is a premium position and they get drafted throughout the first round.......how many of them pan out? We have one that panned out and I'm not willing to give him up in his prime. So I'm keeping the two Ferraris, because you never know if the one you sell brings back a lemon. Agree 100% that Defensive Line is a premium position and when you do hit a homerun and draft a great guy like Mo it's not preferable to get rid of him. You don't usually see guys like that on the trade block like you might see WRs, RBs, or other positions. But maybe that's exactly why he'd be so valuable on the trade market. As I said in my original post to start the thread, I wouldn't want to trade him until we're sure that Leo Williams is the real deal and that Richardson and Williams can lock down Bowles' 3-4 end positions for a long time. I also wouldn't want to trade Mo for anything other than a sure thing which might mean another veteran player in a similar contract position or if there were a clear Andrew Luck type QB at the top of the draft that the Jets could snag by trading Mo along with their #1 pick. I'm definitely torn on this and I'm hoping that Bowles finds a good way to maximize all of these guys. That's really the ultimate answer....finding an effective way to get them all on the field and create the type of elite defense that's even better than what Rex had in 2009 and 2010. This coming season will likely tell us all we need to know about Mo's future here.
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Post by DowNY on May 15, 2015 13:08:30 GMT -5
Mo Money, Mo Problems Part 2? Keep Mo, Force Williams to learn Harrison's spot, Don't resign Harrison next season. OR Trade Mo + Petty for a great QB. or Mo + Decker for an elite WR (Julio Jones & a mid round pick.)
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Post by jetstream23 on May 15, 2015 13:55:28 GMT -5
Mo Money, Mo Problems Part 2? Keep Mo, Force Williams to learn Harrison's spot, Don't resign Harrison next season. OR Trade Mo + Petty for a great QB. or Mo + Decker for an elite WR (Julio Jones & a mid round pick.) The problem I have with this is that it could turn out to be the case, believe it or not, that the best 3-4 DE on the roster turns out to be Williams. He may actually become a better DE than both Wilkerson and Richardson. We just don't know yet. I'd hate to try to move him to DT or NT if that's the case. Quite frankly, it's one of the misfires the Jets may have had with Coples....trying to turn him into something he's not. Sure, Coples can be a decent OLB, but it's not his best position.
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