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Post by Ff2 on Dec 12, 2014 18:13:30 GMT -5
The problem is they now say there were HUNDREDS of detainees who we later admitted had nothing to do with terrorism...wrong place, wrong time.
I'm not sure we can us the term "American Exceptionalism" with a straight face anymore.
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Post by Trades on Dec 12, 2014 19:38:59 GMT -5
The problem is they now say there were HUNDREDS of detainees who we later admitted had nothing to do with terrorism...wrong place, wrong time. I'm not sure we can us the term "American Exceptionalism" with a straight face anymore. What do you mean? We made an exception to the torture policy for all of those people!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 19:59:14 GMT -5
The problem is they now say there were HUNDREDS of detainees who we later admitted had nothing to do with terrorism...wrong place, wrong time. I'm not sure we can us the term "American Exceptionalism" with a straight face anymore. The CIA has always lied to the country and Congress. They actually got caught when they decided to F with in oversight committee. This report shows the citizens of other countries what happens with a true democracy. China and North Korea can say whatever they want but they will never replace the U.S. because they would never admit any wrongdoing and no one will ever invest in their banking industry because of their shitty governments. |
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Dec 12, 2014 20:02:25 GMT -5
1st... these folks werent lawful combatants and arent legally entitled to protections but mcveigh types, when and where they exist need to be thrashed mercilessly also 2nd... we got plenty o' info. How we get OBL and stop other plots?....how. the very blue LA Times:....http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/02/news/la-pn-osama-bin-laden-cia-20110502 A (D) controlled Senate on the way out or a latterday CIA figurehead (who was not in the CIA) is not going to say otherwise. Bob Kerrey (D) said it was crap, no one was interviewed, no recommendations 3rd to liberals/libertarians (social tenet-wise, indistinguishable from each other) the "freedom" "lost" (that you haven't any more than a red light camera strips you of human dignity) is but a small tradeoff for the avoidance of getting blown up-we had to do it because you wouldnt coordinate intellligence efforts -stop coddling the sociopaths everytime we try living the lib/libertarian way innocent people get killed-unborn babies, civilians having had a very close call on 9/11 once in a lifetime is more than enough for me ill be eternally glad for our govt to go up a nose with a rubber hose or electrocute, bomb, eviscerate mortal enemies in perpetuity on my behalf if you dont in an us vs them battle, when you side with them you are them-why u want to be wit' them? Just like it's possible to 'not know' whether humans are causing climate change (Or if it even exists) |
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Post by The Tax Returns Are in Kenya on Dec 12, 2014 20:04:22 GMT -5
Arms pulled out of sockets is torture... Bamboo splints under fingernails is torture.... A wet towel on your face and water up your nose is not torture... It may be a bit uncomfortable but it isn't torture... These filthy unwashed head chopping savages should have experienced real torture..... Of course it's torture, otherwise why waste time with it? Might as well serve them (bad) tea. |
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Post by Big L on Dec 12, 2014 21:53:54 GMT -5
TBH I don't really feel bad at all about the alledged 'torture'. Let's see, your country men just killed 3000 of our citizens, and you're likely involved, so yes, I'm going to hurt you. I mean, what does the media want us to do? Capture these guys and give them milk and cookies? Fuck them. As them questions then just put a bullet in their head next time. You can't win a war without being violent. Somewhere along the line, this country has lost its desire to let loose unabashed violence against its enemies. Yeah, this represents most of America. Those dreaded "terrorists" have a way of frightening the population into having no issue with the ends justifying the means. Unfortunately, this has led to serious degradation of our civil liberties which continue to be abused.
Meanwhile, senseless slaughter continues in Afghanistan amongst millions of those who have no earthly idea why Americans are killing them.
Do you think the people in 1 WTC and 2 WTC had any earthly idea why radical middle easterners were killing them? |
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 13, 2014 11:10:11 GMT -5
The problem is they now say there were HUNDREDS of detainees who we later admitted had nothing to do with terrorism...wrong place, wrong time. I'm not sure we can us the term "American Exceptionalism" with a straight face anymore. The CIA has always lied to the country and Congress. They actually got caught when they decided to F with in oversight committee. This report shows the citizens of other countries what happens with a true democracy. China and North Korea can say whatever they want but they will never replace the U.S. because they would never admit any wrongdoing and no one will ever invest in their banking industry because of their shitty governments. No one admitted any wrongdoing at CIA. They discussed none of this with Congress (not unlike NSA) and correct me if I'm wrong, but we only know this with certainty today is because the 10-year freedom of information mark released these documents outlining the torturing. It was not authorized by congress nor disclosed to the public. That same public that is supposed to have transparency with those voted in and entrusted to represent those same voters. Why is everyone in the dark? Why is this going on without oversight? Why is no one concerned? Most everyone here is okay with it all. Hey, they were "bad" guys anyway, so who cares? Wonderful.
Beyond this, ask any interrogator and they will tell you that information gained from torture is extremely unreliable. The facts prove this out which isn't surprising considering these are desperate people who will say just about anything to survive. This was actually going on before the Iraq war as the US was hell-bent on finding something in Iraq to go to war on. They used testimony that proved faulty at that time as well. How did that turn out? It didn't matter one iota as we had defense contracts being lobbied by the same big players as today such as Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and the like. Did you know the legal amount a major contractor can offer as a contribution? 20M. That's from each one of them. Forget the under-the-table stuff. That's the legal amount. Add that up and spread it around for some key congressional players and more and you've got yourself some major leverage.
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 13, 2014 11:16:40 GMT -5
Yeah, this represents most of America. Those dreaded "terrorists" have a way of frightening the population into having no issue with the ends justifying the means. Unfortunately, this has led to serious degradation of our civil liberties which continue to be abused.
Meanwhile, senseless slaughter continues in Afghanistan amongst millions of those who have no earthly idea why Americans are killing them.
Do you think the people in 1 WTC and 2 WTC had any earthly idea why radical middle easterners were killing them? I'm sure 14 years worth of civilians being slaughtered in the millions should exact a measure of revenge towards a specific group of so-called terrorists who somehow masterminded this event from a cave in Afghanistan in minds like yours. Just keep hating in a blind manner. Uncle Sam is counting on it.
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 13, 2014 11:18:19 GMT -5
I think the big issue is if it does actually help in intelligence gathering, which was the point of it in the first place - I strongly doubt it does or did. Frankly I think if 99% of us were tortured by the methods describe in this report, we'd say just about anything to make it stop, fact or fiction. Basically I just don't think it works - and if you are using it as a means of punishment, frankly you aren't much better than a group like ISIS. Beyond that, it's not legal. It wasn't authorized and as a nation we declared this was inhumane following WWII. |
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 13, 2014 11:26:13 GMT -5
1st... these folks werent lawful combatants and arent legally entitled to protections but mcveigh types, when and where they exist need to be thrashed mercilessly also 2nd... we got plenty o' info. How we get OBL and stop other plots?....how. the very blue LA Times:....http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/02/news/la-pn-osama-bin-laden-cia-20110502 A (D) controlled Senate on the way out or a latterday CIA figurehead (who was not in the CIA) is not going to say otherwise. Bob Kerrey (D) said it was crap, no one was interviewed, no recommendations 3rd to liberals/libertarians (social tenet-wise, indistinguishable from each other) the "freedom" "lost" (that you haven't any more than a red light camera strips you of human dignity) is but a small tradeoff for the avoidance of getting blown up-we had to do it because you wouldnt coordinate intellligence efforts -stop coddling the sociopaths everytime we try living the lib/libertarian way innocent people get killed-unborn babies, civilians having had a very close call on 9/11 once in a lifetime is more than enough for me ill be eternally glad for our govt to go up a nose with a rubber hose or electrocute, bomb, eviscerate mortal enemies in perpetuity on my behalf if you dont in an us vs them battle, when you side with them you are them-why u want to be wit' them? Right! And that makes it okay. Whew! I thought we might've made a mistake or something. Thanks for clearing that up.
As for the wars themselves, they were both illegal as congress did not approve this (Afghanistan) nor the Iraq war. Under the constitution, congress is the only body that can authorize war in the case of protecting its borders. This did not happen. Congress funded but did not authorize either war. Both were dreamed up by our white house as viable threats to our nation.
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Post by DDNYjets on Dec 13, 2014 11:52:46 GMT -5
Do you think the people in 1 WTC and 2 WTC had any earthly idea why radical middle easterners were killing them? I'm sure 14 years worth of civilians being slaughtered in the millions should exact a measure of revenge towards a specific group of so-called terrorists who somehow masterminded this event from a cave in Afghanistan in minds like yours. Just keep hating in a blind manner. Uncle Sam is counting on it.
We slaughtered millions of civilians? And the 9/11 crew are so-called terrorists? I think you are the blind one. Or just trolling. |
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 13, 2014 12:08:25 GMT -5
I'm sure 14 years worth of civilians being slaughtered in the millions should exact a measure of revenge towards a specific group of so-called terrorists who somehow masterminded this event from a cave in Afghanistan in minds like yours(. ). ) Just keep hating in a blind manner(. ). ) Uncle Sam is counting on it(. ). )
We slaughtered millions of civilians? And the 9/11 crew are so-called terrorists? I think you are the blind one(. ). ) Or just trolling(. ). ) We haven't? The ones that supposedly set this into action are no longer there are they? Is Al-Quaida in Afghanistan a threat to the US today? I was there for two years (2010-11) and they're all being wiped out. No one there knows why in the world we've remained as long as we have. Sorry if such questions are trolling for you or make me somehow blind. My god.
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Post by DDNYjets on Dec 13, 2014 12:49:26 GMT -5
We slaughtered millions of civilians? And the 9/11 crew are so-called terrorists? I think you are the blind one(. ). ) Or just trolling(. ). ) We haven't? The ones that supposedly set this into action are no longer there are they? Is Al-Quaida in Afghanistan a threat to the US today? I was there for two years (2010-11) and they're all being wiped out. No one there knows why in the world we've remained as long as we have. Sorry if such questions are trolling for you or make me somehow blind. My god.
You do realize how many a million is, right? You are claiming we have killed millions of civilians. Unless there is some cover up that we all don't know about I say you are talking out of your ass. And please explain to me how those responsible for 9/11 are "so-called terrorists", as you called them. AQ and their affiliates will always be a threat. They will likely never be able to succeed in a 9/11 scale of attack again but they can use the internet and social media to recruit weak Americans and turn them into lone wolves. We are still there b.c we don't want to squander the gains we made and end up with a situation like we have in Iraq with ISIS. I just don't buy into the idea that if we just pick up and leave they will stop hating us. They hated us long before 9/11. They teach their children to hate us. This is never ending. |
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Post by Bavarian on Dec 13, 2014 13:01:44 GMT -5
We haven't? The ones that supposedly set this into action are no longer there are they? Is Al-Quaida in Afghanistan a threat to the US today? I was there for two years (2010-11) and they're all being wiped out. No one there knows why in the world we've remained as long as we have. Sorry if such questions are trolling for you or make me somehow blind. My god.
You do realize how many a million is, right? You are claiming we have killed millions of civilians. Unless there is some cover up that we all don't know about I say you are talking out of your ass. And please explain to me how those responsible for 9/11 are "so-called terrorists", as you called them. AQ and their affiliates will always be a threat. They will likely never be able to succeed in a 9/11 scale of attack again but they can use the internet and social media to recruit weak Americans and turn them into lone wolves. We are still there b.c we don't want to squander the gains we made and end up with a situation like we have in Iraq with ISIS. I just don't buy into the idea that if we just pick up and leave they will stop hating us. They hated us long before 9/11. They teach their children to hate us. This is never ending. You don't have to believe the numbers. And more than this, it can't be proven but it can't be denied either. We can't know how many there have been but understand there is a ton of one-sided firefights having taken place where there was complete annihilation. 14 years worth. That much I gathered from being there. They can't handle all the modern weaponry and training - they've been getting massacred.
Can you explain why we're there 14 years later? Why we continue to pour in between 7-10 billion per month for a total of over 6 trillion (and why this isn't being used at home)? Do you think those terrorists are still a threat? Really?
And where's the proof that the "terrorists" did it? Show me. Show me one shred of evidence linking Al Qaida with those towers falling. Bin Laden never admitted to it - he was never wanted by the FBI either. He was trained by the CIA - why would he want to attack the US? And name for me just one shred of evidence linking those planes going into the ground in PA and into the Pentagon while you're at it. Go ahead, the internet is FULL of information and the 9/11 Commission was long and tedious but there remains NO evidence. Kind of like the Iraq war. It's all been debunked and refuted. All of it.
They didn't hate us before we arrived. They don't even have TV's. And why in the WORLD would anyone provoke the US? Try explaining that to me. I'm interested in being enlightened.
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Post by Big L on Dec 13, 2014 16:15:42 GMT -5
Wow.
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